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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (2024–2025) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

TMaakkonen said:
Current base Mario stats here are fine bar future upgrades, but in a cruel twist no other verse got similar treatment and especially Sonic Scholars have been greedy and managed to get absurd buffs for base Sonic forms. And worst of all common sense isnt an argument so you cant even bunk them easily.

Ngl at this rate IDW might be achilles heel. If one were to go anti-feat crusade, that one might be best route.

Ofc the issue still keeps being that maybe base Sonic cast are totally justified to their stats in VSW logic, but people just doesnt like that :V
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Like sonic should be stronger then chaos in base full stop he's gotten stronger then super forms in base before and his super forms is still super powerful, I feel like we could work on when that jumped happened a bit more I guess?
 
ShrekAnakin said:
I'm late to this, but this happens all the time in fiction. Even in like FF7, there's characters who might have cosmic tier high end feats, they get they get threatened by stuff that could destroy cities or buildings. Same with other RPG's because even in FF8, people get threatened by building destroying missiles when they technically have feats that put them way above building, even in early game.
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In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.
 
TartaChocholate said:
In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.
Click to expand...
The arguments that bullets should make you question characters stats its ridiculous, you expect them to bounce off their skull or body like superman?

At the end of the day if your characters shouldnt worry of a gun blasting their brain, why would you as the audience worry, it limits things in a story
 
ShakeResounding said:
Nah, Chaos Energy in general since Zavok could utilize a Chaos Emerald to protect him

Ian Flynn admitted to not knowing how to write Shadow out of the Metal Virus arc because he was overpowered so he infected him. Seriously lol

Nah, you gotta remember the Virus mutates. Sonic had a stronger variant and Eggman notes it specifically when Sonic is fighting his infection on a treadmill on Angel Island, remember Shadow was made to cure diseases via Black Arms DNA and was still infected.
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I'm sorry, it's your argument of the Metal Virus having layered transmutation the fact that Shadow was created to cure diseases?
So, he should be immune to diseases and the metal virus being a disease, I don't know if I have to remind people that normally speaking diseases don't have the power or ability to transform organic material and cells into inorganic metal, especially when Shadow was designed to take care of things like cancer or the disease that affected Maria
 
FuarRu23 said:
I'm sorry, it's your argument of the Metal Virus having layered transmutation the fact that Shadow was created to cure diseases?
Click to expand...
No, that was actually me combining two thoughts and failing to express it better. My bad.

He resists Transmutation from other means, the MV bypasses his resistance and we know isn't simply because of the MV infecting him because it's a "virus", and that's why the MV is layered.
 
TartaChocholate said:
In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.
Click to expand...
The world will become a better place when people realize there's anti feats in everything. Don't single out any verses or just verses you don't like as being guilty of this, bros.
 
ShakeResounding said:
No, that was actually me combining two thoughts and failing to express it better. My bad.

He resists Transmutation from other means, the MV bypasses his resistance and we know isn't simply because of the MV infecting him because it's a "virus", and that's why the MV is layered.
Click to expand...
And what are the showings or proof of him resisting transmutation? Also, you just say the same argument of metal virus being layered because of Shadow diseases immunity, which I already said is a bad argument
 
FuarRu23 said:
Also, you just say the same argument of metal virus being layered because of Shadow diseases immunity, which I already said is a bad argument
Click to expand...
You just quoted my post saying I expressed my arguments poorly and that it was my fault kek, don't make a strawman
 
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The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Mind giving me the TLDR for why this statement doesn't work? I'll admit that my knowledge of TP is spotty due to cobwebs, but it doesn't seem too bad from a glance.
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The veil of Twilight he uses for this doesn't seem to merge the worlds in literal sense going by visuals, just kinda links them together spatially, but for the most part the statement doesn't work because of the timeframe it all takes for the merge, after a few days the twilight still hadn't even expanded to the clouds above Hyrule, whereas a decent number of Zelda fans take the statement to mean it's basically an instant merge of the entire universe with the twilight realm.

Plus, y'know, more than likely an outlier. The latest game even has a dude empowered by the Triforce of Power (Which is >>>>> something that one shots Zant with just a fraction of it's power) and he can't perform a tier 2 feat without getting the full Triforce.
 
ShakeResounding said:
You just quoted my post saying I expressed my arguments poorly and that it was my fault kek, don't make a strawman
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I see that you ignored my question of me asking for proof or examples of Shadow resisting transmutation and decided to focus on me saying that you're basically saying the same argument in your second sentence
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
The arguments that bullets should make you question characters stats its ridiculous, you expect them to bounce off their skull or body like superman?

At the end of the day if your characters shouldnt worry of a gun blasting their brain, why would you as the audience worry, it limits things in a story
Click to expand...
That's not what I meant, dude. What I'm saying is that if we want to disregard this or that high end because the existence of common anti-feats it shouldn't be specific to certain verses, and rather a general rule or standard if we want to apply it at all. All verses have anti-feats somewhere, so one verse being inconsistent is not that heavy of a claim to begin with. Having worked on Final Fantasy myself for a while, we do accept their better more formidable showings, but missiles and city wide destructions are hardly the lowest ends the cast have displayed and bullets is not the only small time danger there, there's other common stuff like danger of being crushed by rubble, blown up by regular bombs, dying in a crash or from a falling vehicle, have this super fast character require a vehicle for transportation, falling from a great height, being unable to force open a locked door, etc, but we don't let that get in the way (though I did have to make an entire blog post explaining why firearms in FFVII are more powerful than real life ones to try to dress the "it's gameplay mechanics" argument).
 
FuarRu23 said:
I see that you ignored my question of me asking for proof or examples of Shadow resisting transmutation and decided to focus on me saying that you're basically saying the same argument in your second sentence
Click to expand...
The most explicit example I found on Shadow is resisting the effects of Team Chaotix's team attack, which normally turns enemies into rings.



His profile also says he can resist the effects of the Magenta, Ivory, and Blue Whisps, but it doesn't link Shadow resisting those things so take that for what you will.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
His profile also says he can resist the effects of the Magenta, Ivory, and Blue Whisps, but it doesn't link Shadow resisting those things so take that for what you will.
Click to expand...
It’s from Team Sonic racing, he can get hit by the blue wisp directly. You can hash out if blue wisp has the same powers as blue wispon though, since that’s the one with transmutation.
 
JJSliderman said:
It’s from Team Sonic racing, he can get hit by the blue wisp directly. You can hash out if blue wisp has the same powers as blue wispon though, since that’s the one with transmutation.
Click to expand...
So that's where it comes from...thanks for telling me where it originates from.

Just wish there were links which showed them resisting those Whisps, though.
 
TartaChocholate said:
Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.
Click to expand...
The only reason this doesn't happens is because no one cares for collecting anti-feats, rather, as yourself said, caring only for the highest-ends. The anti-feat list for Mario is VERY big, and how many of these are previously discussed prior to the Tier 6 Downgrade? I'm more inclined to agree with Cosmic Mario than i was in the past but you can get my point

We should honestly start applying this to every single verse on a way that they get a Tier that makes logical sense to their showed limits and feats. If FFVII, Kirby, SMT, Sonic or whatever has more logical anti-feats than feats, then they should be downgraded accordingly

Conclusion: I'm not juding you but rather giving my view point on this subject :V

TartaChocholate said:
(though I did have to make an entire blog post explaining why firearms in FFVII are more powerful than real life ones to try to dress the "it's gameplay mechanics" argument).
Click to expand...
Might link it?

Your blogs on FF are very good and have great explanations btw, good job
 
I'm from the future, and I can confirm this be legit. 😈
But nah fr, decided to take some inspiration from the board of wizdom returning an used it for guaranteed future MU's to create prediction for what they'll do and based on community versus setting.
Red is Shigaraki and Mahito da purple.
Board_of_Wizdom_Mahiraki_Template_Filled_Complete.png
 
TartaChocholate said:
In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.
Click to expand...
Franchises with stuff like a super sonic tend to avoid this better, sense only base forms absorb the anti feats
 
Accelerated_Evolution said:
The only reason this doesn't happens is because no one cares for collecting anti-feats, rather, as yourself said, caring only for the highest-ends. The anti-feat list for Mario is VERY big, and how many of these are previously discussed prior to the Tier 6 Downgrade? I'm more inclined to agree with Cosmic Mario than i was in the past but you can get my point
Click to expand...
Yeah, and I agree. And, well, it's understandable in a way. When you're essentially gauging how strong a character is you essentially want to see how far they can go and all, it's actually rather admirable when people actually play fair and bring up both the good and the bad (like Zelda does in here, tbh).
Accelerated_Evolution said:
We should honestly start applying this to every single verse on a way that they get a Tier that makes logical sense to their showed limits and feats. If FFVII, Kirby, SMT, Sonic or whatever has more logical anti-feats than feats, then they should be downgraded accordingly

Conclusion: I'm not juding you but rather giving my view point on this subject :V
Click to expand...
No, no. Don't worry. I understood you pretty well in that regard. And in many ways I agree on this as well. Just that I think, knowing full well that actually implementing it would be hard, that it should be a standard for everybody if it were to be used. If all verses had to take responsibility for their anti-feats and that would inevitably lead to downgrades, then well, it's what it is. I'd be lying I wouldn't be bummed to see the FF ratings go down, but it's kinda like when Acausality 4 got nerfed, I'm part of the bunch that agreed that it was too strong of an ability and too easily attained, so it's downgrade led to some big nerfs on FFVII, but I thought it was fair.
Accelerated_Evolution said:
Might link it?

Your blogs on FF are very good and have great explanations btw, good job
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks dude. Just me being obsessive over an oldie.

Here it is. Long story short: the same company that manufactures weaponry also is the one behind bioengineered super soldiers, magic and war mechs, so it would be contradictory the firearms they produce, commercialize and give to their own troops, would be completely ineffectual.
 
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