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Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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greymerlion2 said:
One area I feel Death Battle could do better in is hyping up a fight. Posting previews of research doesn't really work because that's not what people are really here for, they want to watch characters fight it out. They need trailers with short clips of the fight itself, the characters exchanging dialogue over those clips, and of course banging high-energy music that gets blood pumping.

They did a damn near perfect example of this for Goku vs Superman 2, and it's yet another reason I'm pissed that the fight didn't live up to the hype. And yes, it was Goku vs Superman, of course they were going to sell it a little harder than most fights, but there's no reason they can't do trailers like that for every fight when they've clearly shown they're willing to give it 100% for episodes with MUs that aren't as popular as Goku vs Superman.

Would it be extra work? Obviously. Would it be worth it? I think it would be.
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I said this before DB Ned's to a better job hyping the MU even the ones folks may not care for

It would help with the views massively
 
greymerlion2 said:
One area I feel Death Battle could do better in is hyping up a fight. Posting previews of research doesn't really work because that's not what people are really here for, they want to watch characters fight it out. They need trailers with short clips of the fight itself, the characters exchanging dialogue over those clips, and of course banging high-energy music that gets blood pumping.

They did a damn near perfect example of this for Goku vs Superman 2, and it's yet another reason I'm pissed that the fight didn't live up to the hype. And yes, it was Goku vs Superman, of course they were going to sell it a little harder than most fights, but there's no reason they can't do trailers like that for every fight when they've clearly shown they're willing to give it 100% for episodes with MUs that aren't as popular as Goku vs Superman.

Would it be extra work? Obviously. Would it be worth it? I think it would be.
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Quick clips of the fight is not a bad idea, maybe show for each character a moment they are dominating or have a good moment they pulled and have it end on cliffhanger
 
greymerlion2 said:
A grand total of 4 connections and two of them are so generic you can tell that the creator was stretching to list more. And frankly, I really don't care for having some generic OP isekai visual novel character on Death Battle. There are better and more popular characters who deserve a spot first.

Also, I suspected that people wanted this because Rimuru has a chance to beat Kirby and I was right. Oh boy, a spite MU against literally one of the nicest and cutest characters ever just because a few annoying people wank him.

Anyway, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, I don't like this MU.
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Yeah I'm not really a fan of it. Definitely seemed like an MU made solely out of spite/to be a Kirby L.

I don't really like a lot of Kirby's remaining MUs, Mario ******* sucks, Mega Man is... blegh and a stomp for Kirby, the only one I really like that's left is Yuuma Toutetsu which is actually pretty interesting and close, but Yuuma is far too new and niche a character for DB rn.

But lets be real, DB is gonna bring back Kirby to fight Mario because it would pull views.

Foxthefox1000 said:
I don't like it either.

Another unpopular opinion is that I don't really like Luigi VS Pac-Man much. The connections barely exist beyond "Ghostbusters" and I feel like the fight would feel awkward. Their arsenals don't really mesh well and when Planet Pac comes into play what the hell are they gonna do to not make it look awkward as **** for Luigi? Also in terms of music potential I don't see how it'd generate much of a hype track personally.
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Luigi vs Pac-Man is kind of cute, they kind of contrast more than connect, but that's an underlooked facet of creating MUs imo, find one strong connection then see how they contrast.

Also Planet Pac really shouldn't come into play unless you decide to composite Pac-Man, which would be kind of weird to do outside of just giving Pac more abilities.
TMaakkonen said:
I kinda have been implying lately on that one thing, might as well just say it clearly.

Practically everything in VS is highballed/wanked too much.

I want to try to be objective, but sadly nigh all verses really arent build for consistent versus stuff. It might be a cop out, but its sadly kinda true, that in context of actual events of stories, versus stats can greatly differ to the point of them actually being inappropriate presentation of characters actual abilities. There is nothing wrong with scaling, there is nothing wrong with statements themselves too, but these can be used to create inaccurate descriptions. And sadly, sometimes truly accurate descriptions are impossible due to different reasons.

And if you think: "But what about -" then yes, that character/verse is likely also highballed/wanked.

Hell, we already have at least 3 different views on fights on this thread, how DB views them, how VSW views them and how do one's self view fights. All 3 different views can drastically differ.

I guess if I were to go spiciness route for example, if I'd were to use common sense to be critical, Kirby should lose to Buu. In VS land, Kirby wins ez. Funny how they can differ.
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When verses stop dealing with things on a cosmic, uni, or above scale things will stop being brought to such a high level. Sure, some verses definitely do get wanked but I think putting things as "everything in VS is highballed/wanked" is a little silly. We can only bring things to a level that's practically in a series and there's always a reason for it. There's a pretty massive push for stories to have higher scales for bigger amounts of hype/higher stakes, so more franchises are doing this, as long as verses continue to introduce cosmic level shit people will bring things to cosmic level.

And honestly I don't really, get that last point. Kirby's been a cosmic series since the beginning, the moon blew up in the second game and the game right after it Kirby was cracking planets and flying across the cosmos, and things only ever progressively escalated over the years, not much different from DB. Honestly, it started more impressive than DB, DB started as a silly martial arts comedy manga with somewhat small stakes, before getting brought back as a more high stakes martial arts series that slowly crept to planet level and then even further. I think both series' are quite comparable in the regard of having consistent power growth, there's not much in terms of common sense to immediately decide who wins automatically "ez".
 
when it comes to Stuff Kirby, Dragon Ball,Sonic,Asura etc it's easier to buy them being up in the Cosmic food chain cause for most part there stuff is in your face about it


Series like GOW,Elder Scrolls,DMC,Dark Souls etc are harder cause outside Lore they have nothing imply there stronger than they look
 
Crowman123 said:
Yes. And i do not trust Disney one bit. Chapek is absolutely ruthless buisnessman.
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Fair enough. Though FWIW, it's not JUST the animation industry that's getting up in arms about this: literally the whole ENTERTAINMENT industry is demanding Zaslav get the boot. Even WB's own LAWYERS don't like what he's doing, and it's there job to defend him if this ends up going legal (which it very well could, given some of the stuff he's done apparently goes against anti-trust laws). And sure, MAYBE if you wanna play devil's advocate, you COULD say he's trying to do what he promised shareholders he'd do once he took over: get rid of WB's massive debt. But not only is he somehow making the problem WORSE, there's also been an increase of racism and anti-LGBT sentiment within the company ever since he took over, so I think it's safe to say he's no saint either...

What I'm getting at is I think Disney (and all the other big names, for that matter) are keeping a VERY close eye on the situation, and waiting to see how it plays out. Will it all somehow be worth it in the end? Or are people's fears that the only ways to save WB are bankruptcy or selling it off AGAIN (even though they just GOT bought out, and it'd risk repeating the cycle) justified?

Um, sorry for the tangent, I've been trying to keep as close of an eye on all this as I can (I mean, I have enough reasons to worry about Rooster Teeth's future: I don't need another one). Anyway, back to Death Battle... how stupid of an idea is Big the Cat vs Rufus from Street Fighter?
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
And honestly I don't really, get that last point. Kirby's been a cosmic series since the beginning, the moon blew up in the second game and the game right after it Kirby was cracking planets and flying across the cosmos, and things only ever progressively escalated over the years, not much different from DB. Honestly, it started more impressive than DB, DB started as a silly martial arts comedy manga with somewhat small stakes, before getting brought back as a more high stakes martial arts series that slowly crept to planet level and then even further. I think both series' are quite comparable in the regard of having consistent power growth, there's not much in terms of common sense to immediately decide who wins automatically "ez".
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I mean, Kirby is still cosmic even in Planet-Star range? I dunno about earliness part, both series got to Moon level really fast too, in 2nd arc & 2nd game respectively, technically Kirby wasnt cosmic in the very first game. DB being gag manga also at start doesnt matter, as doesnt both series growing progressively.

The problem for me is, Kirby for some reason is made to struggle against foes who really dont scale to beyond Planet-Star level. Even latest game's final boss scripted scenario has Kirby needing help and dont tell me that Kirby twitter has confirmed that post game area is a real universe which would lead to shenanigans lol

You could go "well thats just PIS", but thats a bad trend so I'd avoid that.

Now, I might have missed calcs, but this detriment to Kirby means that even lowballing Buu to Frieza's feat means Buu is stronger. But yeah, if you do ignore them lol-MeteorMinigame feat insta-kills Buu.

To be fair to Kirby, its actually a series that puts good emphasis on large scale feats. The fact that a lot of games have actually have a good number of planetary threats and feats is impressive.
 
Tipper17 said:
when it comes to Stuff Kirby, Dragon Ball,Sonic,Asura etc it's easier to buy them being up in the Cosmic food chain cause for most part there stuff is in your face about it


Series like GOW,Elder Scrolls,DMC,Dark Souls etc are harder cause outside Lore they have nothing imply there stronger than they look
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They should be more open minded, cuz not every series can bust a planet for example and somehow have it continue the series logically, lore is there to give exposition for a reason, especially if they tell you the same shit over and over
 
TMaakkonen said:
I mean, Kirby is still cosmic even in Planet-Star range? I dunno about earliness part, both series got to Moon level really fast too, in 2nd arc & 2nd game respectively, technically Kirby wasnt cosmic in the very first game. DB being gag manga also at start doesnt matter, as doesnt both series growing progressively.

The problem for me is, Kirby for some reason is made to struggle against foes who really dont scale to beyond Planet-Star level. Even latest game's final boss scripted scenario has Kirby needing help and dont tell me that Kirby twitter has confirmed that post game area is a real universe which would lead to shenanigans lol

You could go "well thats just PIS", but thats a bad trend so I'd avoid that.

Now, I might have missed calcs, but this detriment to Kirby means that even lowballing Buu to Frieza's feat means Buu is stronger. But yeah, if you do ignore them lol-MeteorMinigame feat insta-kills Buu.

To be fair to Kirby, its actually a series that puts good emphasis on large scale feats. The fact that a lot of games have actually have a good number of planetary threats and feats is impressive.
Click to expand...
The entire point was just to say that DB isn't just a "common sense" win, as a series it didn't start as anything crazy, just like Kirby, before having a steady power-creep as it went onwards.

Kirby has only really had two major recent incidents of struggling against opponents only around the planet level, and that's Sectonia (where he's only really restrained due to her larger size) and Elfilis (which is right after he just finished slapping it around and just tore literally half of its essence out, and its literally falling apart at the seams melting). The fact Elfilis seems to have some (semi-contentious) proof of universe creation honestly makes that shaky as well.

Consistently Kirby operates at a much higher level and the previous game had him take on a threat even bigger and literally overpower it in a beam clash, then survive it exploding and destroying galaxies, and also had the Meteor Minigame thing lol. The series had a pretty solid power creep overtime.

But again, its not like DB doesn't have its own anti-feats either, but we don't drag that series down over it.

Tipper17 said:
when it comes to Stuff Kirby, Dragon Ball,Sonic,Asura etc it's easier to buy them being up in the Cosmic food chain cause for most part there stuff is in your face about it


Series like GOW,Elder Scrolls,DMC,Dark Souls etc are harder cause outside Lore they have nothing imply there stronger than they look
Click to expand...
Yeah, the series' at least consistently show you crazy shit happening and has statements backing them up. Even if there's a minor contradiction or two there's so much more in its favor to back it up.

I will say that if a series has lore that backs up them being at a stronger rank, so long as the lore consistently backs them up being at that tier and repeatedly emphasizes the insane scale of things, I think its safe to buy it. Being able to buy something like say, GoW being Uni+ is a lot more solid than most other franchises' lore since its consistently compounded throughout novels, guidebooks, dev statements, and in game lore/bios, and there's nothing really contradicting it. We're just clearly not shown uni destruction due to how it would kind of make developing the world and fights impossible.
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
They should be more open minded, cuz not every series can bust a planet for example and somehow have it continue the series logically, lore is there to give exposition for a reason, especially if they tell you the same shit over and over
Click to expand...
Listen folks can only be open minded to a certain point
If the series doesn't have an in your face feat or something akin to it to the point where denying then is denial then you're gonna get nothing but "sorry nope don't buy it"
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
The entire point was just to say that DB isn't just a "common sense" win, as a series it didn't start as anything crazy, just like Kirby, before having a steady power-creep as it went onwards.

Kirby has only really had two major recent incidents of struggling against opponents only around the planet level, and that's Sectonia (where he's only really restrained due to her larger size) and Elfilis (which is right after he just finished slapping it around and just tore literally half of its essence out, and its literally falling apart at the seams melting). The fact Elfilis seems to have some (semi-contentious) proof of universe creation honestly makes that shaky as well.

Consistently Kirby operates at a much higher level and the previous game had him take on a threat even bigger and literally overpower it in a beam clash, then survive it exploding and destroying galaxies, and also had the Meteor Minigame thing lol. The series had a pretty solid power creep overtime.

But again, its not like DB doesn't have its own anti-feats either, but we don't drag that series down over it.


Yeah, the series' at least consistently show you crazy shit happening and has statements backing them up. Even if there's a minor contradiction or two there's so much more in its favor to back it up.

I will say that if a series has lore that backs up them being at a stronger rank, so long as the lore consistently backs them up being at that tier and repeatedly emphasizes the insane scale of things, I think its safe to buy it. Being able to buy something like say, GoW being Uni+ is a lot more solid than most other franchises' lore since its consistently compounded throughout novels, guidebooks, dev statements, and in game lore/bios, and there's nothing really contradicting it. We're just clearly not shown uni destruction due to how it would kind of make developing the world and fights impossible.
Click to expand...
I say GOW is a better example of it considering the devs outright explain why for the shit that doesn't happen blatantly and Norse shit also helps
 
a28yMDAyLmpwZw

"This last spot of the thread now belongs to Doctor Doom."
 
The thing with Kirby is that he gets blown out of proportion. People think he's some unbeatable God that can beat every character ever. He's become one of the most wanked characters in fiction.

And not to start anything, but his feats should be given more scrutiny. 99% of the stars in his universe barely qualify for actual stars, Planet Pop Star has been called small by official sources more consistently, the Meteor feat has "planets" or "meteors" depending on your view that would be hundreds of lightyears across going by the counter people love to use. Megaton Punch is itself contradictory and it's issues are well-known. The only evidence we have for Pop Star and the planets being actual planet-sized is a headcanon based around Shiver Star, but Kirby's universe and cosmology allow for weirdly shaped planets and for smaller planets than even Pop Star (if the maps are even depicting accurate sizes which is also inconsistent) to have rings around them.

Any feat with "stars" in the background needs to be taken with a grain of salt realistically given the inconsistent sizes of "stars" in Kirby and what they call stars, for example, the AD example people use shows planets and stars, but said planets are almost as big as the star they're orbiting. We saw a "sun" orbiting Pop Star before. Not to mention Kirby himself is tiny and his world is literally called tiny by official sources, implying everything is at a smaller scale.

But no one brings these up. For some reason, verses like Mario or Metal Gear get hit with ******* essays analyzing every single inconsistency and apply harsh scrutiny to every single feat done in the verse, but Kirby gets so little by comparison. Same for Sonic in a way.

No one also brings up the fact Kirby had the power of the Heart Spears empowering him during Star Allies which are Void's literal weakness. A pink heart from them hits Kirby and gives him his friend hearts, and in the finale battle four Spears appear to boost the vehicle into the Sparkler, the very thing Kirby used to beam clash with Void. I really don't like that scaling personally, but I just never brought it up before. Kirby was literally boosted and empowered the entire time and then given a very clear amp to fight Void. His soul and insides of his body are logically weaker than the outside o
his body.

And how do we know that Magolor collapsed multiple parts of AD? If we're using that wave from the other levels that existed before you even fight Magolor.

In the cutscenes Kirby and Marx can be seen next to the "planet-sized" objects and they're not that big. The galaxies we've seen have "stars" behind or next to them that are a significant size of said "Galaxy".

And the justifications for the current profiles I'm sorry but they're not that great. I can barely understand what they're trying to say. How do we get Low Multiverse from just listing people they scale to and the fact AD has other dimensions? Did anyone explicitly destroy said dimensions at the same time? Create them all at the same time? Manipulate the entirety of AD? I don't quite understand it.

Anyways, I know how this site is with stuff these are controversial takes but I can't help it. The justifications are a mess and are given no scrutiny despite the verses having inaccurate celestial bodies and varying sizes for these celestial bodies that makes certain feats iffy, as well as the fact it's all based on a headcanon that Shiver Star is Earth-sized due to looking like Earth when Earth has already stated to exist and Pop Star is frequently called small even when Earth was in the same sentence, not to mention Pop Star suffering from the Roche Limit implying it's smaller than the Forgotten World AND while people hate it, Megaton Punch can also be proof of it's smaller size since it gives a canon measurement of strength, as well as Gigaton Punch (Japanese name) since it shows the meters the crack travels and it only takes 999 meters to get to the other side of the parallel Pop Star, which cannot be smaller.

And also if people call those things in Kirby's meteor feat planets than that just shows even more how small the cosmology is.

We have way more consistent statements and measurements showing the world is smaller as well as Canon stuff like it suffering the Roche Limit or the meters it takes to reach the other side of the planet and only headcanon to prove it's apparently not, and a headcanon with another "planet" which have shown can vary greatly in Kirby.

Anyways, I expect to get hate for this and tons of people arguing with me or "debunking" me but I don't think my opinions will change.
 
Tipper17 said:
Listen folks can only be open minded to a certain point
If the series doesn't have an in your face feat or something akin to it to the point where denying then is denial then you're gonna get nothing but "sorry nope don't buy it"
Click to expand...
It is stupid to expect visuals for it, by that logic Cell isnt a solar system buster cuz its just statements and guides saying it and the semi perfect one just blew up king kai planet when doing a rage quit self destruct
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
The thing with Kirby is that he gets blown out of proportion. People think he's some unbeatable God that can beat every character ever. He's become one of the most wanked characters in fiction.
Click to expand...
Yes, people annoy too much on this for the memes and crappy reasons that they think hold up when that's not the case.
Foxthefox1000 said:
And not to start anything, but his feats should be given more scrutiny. 99% of the stars in his universe barely qualify for actual stars, Planet Pop Star has been called small by official sources more consistently, the Meteor feat has "planets" or "meteors" depending on your view that would be hundreds of lightyears across going by the counter people love to use. Megaton Punch is itself contradictory and it's issues are well-known. The only evidence we have for Pop Star and the planets being actual planet-sized is a headcanon based around Shiver Star, but Kirby's universe and cosmology allow for weirdly shaped planets and for smaller planets than even Pop Star (if the maps are even depicting accurate sizes which is also inconsistent) to have rings around them.

Any feat with "stars" in the background needs to be taken with a grain of salt realistically given the inconsistent sizes of "stars" in Kirby and what they call stars, for example, the AD example people use shows planets and stars, but said planets are almost as big as the star they're orbiting. We saw a "sun" orbiting Pop Star before. Not to mention Kirby himself is tiny and his world is literally called tiny by official sources, implying everything is at a smaller scale.

But no one brings these up. For some reason, verses like Mario or Metal Gear get hit with ******* essays analyzing every single inconsistency and apply harsh scrutiny to every single feat done in the verse, but Kirby gets so little by comparison. Same for Sonic in a way.

No one also brings up the fact Kirby had the power of the Heart Spears empowering him during Star Allies which are Void's literal weakness. A pink heart from them hits Kirby and gives him his friend hearts, and in the finale battle four Spears appear to boost the vehicle into the Sparkler, the very thing Kirby used to beam clash with Void. I really don't like that scaling personally, but I just never brought it up before. Kirby was literally boosted and empowered the entire time and then given a very clear amp to fight Void. His soul and insides of his body are logically weaker than the outside o
his body.

And how do we know that Magolor collapsed multiple parts of AD? If we're using that wave from the other levels that existed before you even fight Magolor.

In the cutscenes Kirby and Marx can be seen next to the "planet-sized" objects and they're not that big. The galaxies we've seen have "stars" behind or next to them that are a significant size of said "Galaxy".

And the justifications for the current profiles I'm sorry but they're not that great. I can barely understand what they're trying to say. How do we get Low Multiverse from just listing people they scale to and the fact AD has other dimensions? Did anyone explicitly destroy said dimensions at the same time? Create them all at the same time? Manipulate the entirety of AD? I don't quite understand it.

Anyways, I know how this site is with stuff these are controversial takes but I can't help it. The justifications are a mess and are given no scrutiny despite the verses having inaccurate celestial bodies and varying sizes for these celestial bodies that makes certain feats iffy, as well as the fact it's all based on a headcanon that Shiver Star is Earth-sized due to looking like Earth when Earth has already stated to exist and Pop Star is frequently called small even when Earth was in the same sentence, not to mention Pop Star suffering from the Roche Limit implying it's smaller than the Forgotten World AND while people hate it, Megaton Punch can also be proof of it's smaller size since it gives a canon measurement of strength, as well as Gigaton Punch (Japanese name) since it shows the meters the crack travels and it only takes 999 meters to get to the other side of the parallel Pop Star, which cannot be smaller.

And also if people call those things in Kirby's meteor feat planets than that just shows even more how small the cosmology is.

We have way more consistent statements and measurements showing the world is smaller as well as Canon stuff like it suffering the Roche Limit or the meters it takes to reach the other side of the planet and only headcanon to prove it's apparently not, and a headcanon with another "planet" which have shown can vary greatly in Kirby.

Anyways, I expect to get hate for this and tons of people arguing with me or "debunking" me but I don't think my opinions will change.
Click to expand...
A lot of this is wrong, I would be happy to tell you why if you make a thread for it.
 
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