DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

In general DT sucks the fun out of power scaling

I'm about 50/50 when it comes to my opinion on DT. On the one hand, I acknowledge that it kills a lot of enjoyment and milage you can get out of scaling when you have someone arguing that insert character here is some 27174727727261626-D character that solos all of Dragon Ball. But on the other hand, it's hard to ignore those instances where an author or story is trying to convey when someone or something is higher dimensional (an example being the Abstracts from Marvel or The Endless from the Sandman).

Personally? I see DT as a necessary evil. It's something I wish wouldn't exist, but there's no better alternatives to handling that sort of stuff in my opinion.

 

[WCMM]

On that note, are the rumors I heard about 5D Star Wars Legends being accepted true?

 

[ShakeResounding]

From my inside guy on Discord, apparently that part of the episode got communicated wrong, as they weren't trying to argue transmutation would work on Eggman's heavy hitter, just peons.

Oh! Interesting since they showed Light Eggman getting transmuted, but I assume they didn't account for the Emeralds at the same time?

He hasn't sent me a screenshot of someone from the crew saying that, so it's just word of mouth

Ahhh, gotcha

Isn’t he playable in the Ark levels completely unprotected

Oh... then maybe he CAN survive in space

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Yeah if my inside guys feed me false intel they lose family being alive privileges

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Isn’t he playable in the Ark levels completely unprotected

Yeah, Lost Colony and Cosmic Wall are stages where Eggman has nothing protecting his head yet he's shown to be okay.

 

[Electronic74947]

I headcanon that eggman is still alive, he just knocked out, he'll come back and reclaim his glory

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah if my inside guys feed me false intel they lose family being alive privileges

At first I misread this as them losing family guy privileges but I'm glad the actual punishment isn't that bad

 

[Darkmon_cns]

but can he breath the vaccum of space? genuine question here

I am 99% sure he has been in it unaided before so... probably if only in that cartoony "not thinking about it" way

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I disagree. Who do you think makes the Capsules across all the Modern games to begin with? That's potentially thousands of capsules from one title alone. Why would a man based on prep not have capsules he creates like basic candy? Granted, that being efficient is another matter entirely so I won't entirely disagree

I refuted the transmutation argument in my post a page or two ago (the Sonic comic even uses the word). Those that matter in Eggman's army would resist it via Chaos Energy.

The chaos energy thing I can understand why they didn't include, was this a super sonic ablity? Or a chaos ablity, in older drafts shadow was supposed to try to resist the virus with sheer power just by removing his inhibitor rings... but that power is supposed to be chaos energy isn't it? This would imply it's more a super sonic or super forms thing (granted that would still apply to metal)

 

[ShakeResounding]

The chaos energy thing I can understand why they didn't include, was this a super sonic ablity?

Nah, Chaos Energy in general since Zavok could utilize a Chaos Emerald to protect him

Or a chaos ablity, in older drafts shadow was supposed to try to resist the virus with sheer power just by removing his inhibitor rings... but that power is supposed to be chaos energy isn't it?

Ian Flynn admitted to not knowing how to write Shadow out of the Metal Virus arc because he was overpowered so he infected him. Seriously lol

This would imply it's more a super sonic or super forms thing (granted that would still apply to metal)

Nah, you gotta remember the Virus mutates. Sonic had a stronger variant and Eggman notes it specifically when Sonic is fighting his infection on a treadmill on Angel Island, remember Shadow was made to cure diseases via Black Arms DNA and was still infected.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Nah, Chaos Energy in general since Zavok could utilize a Chaos Emerald to protect him

I don't recall this part? Aren't the 6 just keeping the zombots away from them? I recently read the metal virus ark and have no idea when this happened?

Nah, you gotta remember the Virus mutates. Sonic had a stronger variant and Eggman notes it specifically when Sonic is fighting his infection on a treadmill on Angel Island, remember Shadow was made to cure diseases via Black Arms DNA and was still infected.

I mean... I've been thinking this for a while but... the Metal Virus, isn't a Virus there lots of tiny nano bots, it's designed to act and even look like a virus, but I still doubt there's an immune system anywhere that can affect nano bots like that, but this is a completely other topic

 

[JJSliderman]

I don't recall this part? Aren't the 6 just keeping the zombots away from them? I recently read the metal virus ark and have no idea when this happened?

Zavok picks up a horde of Zombots with his unprotected hand and then coats it with chaos energy to stop himself being infected, in his giant form.

I think it’s like, limited amounts of layered transmutation or prevention of it is doable with single chaos emeralds, while full on infection needs the super state.

 

[Deidalius]

The salt of the Sonic fans on this site is delicious, they deserved to get humbled, nobody actually believes in garbage like 7D, 6D or even just 5D Game Sonic, and I love how Bowser is the first character in Death Battle that actually overpowers and defeats a Sonic character Super Form instead of just outlasting it and finish them off once they are in base. Also lol at the person believing that the Jade Wisp is comparable to Boos, almost all wisps are featless fodders with barely any haxes

Everyone's dunking on this guy but he's right (idk what he's talking about the wisps and the boos tho)

 

[ShakeResounding]

I mean... I've been thinking this for a while but... the Metal Virus, isn't a Virus there lots of tiny nano bots, it's designed to act and even look like a virus, but I still doubt there's an immune system anywhere that can affect nano bots like that, but this is a completely other topic

Doesn't matter much because it's still referred to as having mutated (and I don't mean to sound curt)

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Zavok picks up a horde of Zombots with his unprotected hand and then coats it with chaos energy to stop himself being infected, in his giant form.

I think it’s like, limited amounts of layered transmutation or prevention of it is doable with single chaos emeralds, while full on infection needs the super state.

O I thought he was just infecting himself well reading tbh but his large size was perventing it from being visible.

Wouldn't that be more like a ki shield situation? Where there's just a barrier stopping it from touching you and it needs to touch you to do the thing?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Wouldn't that be more like a ki shield situation? Where there's just a barrier stopping it from touching you and it needs to touch you to do the thing?

Zavok touches the Zombots
THEN activates the Emerald's power

No, it'd have to be the opposite order

 

[Deidalius]

Deleted scene, a lot was added to the battle. Koppa Kids were removed at the start of the fight

Honestly I can't even be mad at the deleted scenes, the final product was so much better. I am glad Moro worked hard on it even though it had a lot of time and monetary constraints.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

No, it'd have to be the opposite order

Well that gose back to shadow, he couldn't resist the zombot dispute the fact he should always have chaos energy flowing through him, well guess you need an emerald

 

[ShakeResounding]

Well that gose back to shadow, he couldn't resist the zom/bot dispute the fact he should always have chaos energy flowing through him, well guess you need an emerald

Yeah, he likely doesn't have enough innate Chaos Energy to negate the virus. Even 1 Chaos Emerald is said to have infinite power on multiple occasions, both JP and ENG

 

[Tipper17]

Character Analysis: Shadow the Hedgehog

This blog was made as part of my patreon. I’m gonna make a Mario themed blog next, and vote for which one if you're a member. I wanna do ...

ulltraguy.blogspot.com

 

[TartaChocholate]

Honestly I can't even be mad at the deleted scenes, the final product was so much better. I am glad Moro worked hard on it even though it had a lot of time and monetary constraints.

The only bit I kind of regret that didn't make it was the small part of the Koopalings jumping into action. Everything else was really polished into the final sequence.

 

[ShrekAnakin]

No I totally understand what you what you mean. As someone who's currently reading the IDW comics, it is incredibly glaring to see someone who scales to Low 2-C like Tangle be nearly blown up by a bomb which threatened a warehouse just as you said a consequence of SEGA making IDW canon to the game continuity instead of its own thing, admittedly.

But honestly? I just chalk it up to the writers not giving a shit about consistency and cohesion in the strength of their characters and just writing what they want for the sake of the story. It doesn't excuse it, and it's still egregious, but that's how I see it anyway.

I'm late to this, but this happens all the time in fiction. Even in like FF7, there's characters who might have cosmic tier high end feats, they get they get threatened by stuff that could destroy cities or buildings. Same with other RPG's because even in FF8, people get threatened by building destroying missiles when they technically have feats that put them way above building, even in early game.

 

[JJSliderman]

Character Analysis: Shadow the Hedgehog

This blog was made as part of my patreon. I’m gonna make a Mario themed blog next, and vote for which one if you're a member. I wanna do ...

ulltraguy.blogspot.com

Okay, nice to see that ultra does actually give good respect to Sonic, basically all the high end Sonic args are here and acknowledged.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Current base Mario stats here are fine bar future upgrades, but in a cruel twist no other verse got similar treatment and especially Sonic Scholars have been greedy and managed to get absurd buffs for base Sonic forms. And worst of all common sense isnt an argument so you cant even bunk them easily.

Ngl at this rate IDW might be achilles heel. If one were to go anti-feat crusade, that one might be best route.

Ofc the issue still keeps being that maybe base Sonic cast are totally justified to their stats in VSW logic, but people just doesnt like that :V

 

[ShrekAnakin]

Character Analysis: Shadow the Hedgehog

This blog was made as part of my patreon. I’m gonna make a Mario themed blog next, and vote for which one if you're a member. I wanna do ...

ulltraguy.blogspot.com

Other allies

Well, at least someone else has accepted the truth that Shadow has no friends.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Current base Mario stats here are fine bar future upgrades, but in a cruel twist no other verse got similar treatment and especially Sonic Scholars have been greedy and managed to get absurd buffs for base Sonic forms. And worst of all common sense isnt an argument so you cant even bunk them easily.

Ngl at this rate IDW might be achilles heel. If one were to go anti-feat crusade, that one might be best route.

Ofc the issue still keeps being that maybe base Sonic cast are totally justified to their stats in VSW logic, but people just doesnt like that :V

Like sonic should be stronger then chaos in base full stop he's gotten stronger then super forms in base before and his super forms is still super powerful, I feel like we could work on when that jumped happened a bit more I guess?

 

[TartaChocholate]

I'm late to this, but this happens all the time in fiction. Even in like FF7, there's characters who might have cosmic tier high end feats, they get they get threatened by stuff that could destroy cities or buildings. Same with other RPG's because even in FF8, people get threatened by building destroying missiles when they technically have feats that put them way above building, even in early game.

In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.

 

[Dust_Collector]

But there ain't no anti-feats in Zelda baybee

 

[BlackDarkness679]

In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.

The arguments that bullets should make you question characters stats its ridiculous, you expect them to bounce off their skull or body like superman?

At the end of the day if your characters shouldnt worry of a gun blasting their brain, why would you as the audience worry, it limits things in a story

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Oh! Interesting since they showed Light Eggman getting transmuted, but I assume they didn't account for the Emeralds at the same time?

To be fair, Wonder Bowser does have 2 Layers for his Transmutation

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Character Analysis: Shadow the Hedgehog

This blog was made as part of my patreon. I’m gonna make a Mario themed blog next, and vote for which one if you're a member. I wanna do ...

ulltraguy.blogspot.com

Huh. I think this blog is pretty good, it acknowledges the high end feats of the games without the need of DT.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

But there ain't no anti-feats in Zelda baybee

That's because the feats in Zelda don't compare to what's in Mario and Sonic, lol.

 

[FuarRu23]

Nah, Chaos Energy in general since Zavok could utilize a Chaos Emerald to protect him

Ian Flynn admitted to not knowing how to write Shadow out of the Metal Virus arc because he was overpowered so he infected him. Seriously lol

Nah, you gotta remember the Virus mutates. Sonic had a stronger variant and Eggman notes it specifically when Sonic is fighting his infection on a treadmill on Angel Island, remember Shadow was made to cure diseases via Black Arms DNA and was still infected.

I'm sorry, it's your argument of the Metal Virus having layered transmutation the fact that Shadow was created to cure diseases?
So, he should be immune to diseases and the metal virus being a disease, I don't know if I have to remind people that normally speaking diseases don't have the power or ability to transform organic material and cells into inorganic metal, especially when Shadow was designed to take care of things like cancer or the disease that affected Maria

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'm sorry, it's your argument of the Metal Virus having layered transmutation the fact that Shadow was created to cure diseases?

No, that was actually me combining two thoughts and failing to express it better. My bad.

He resists Transmutation from other means, the MV bypasses his resistance and we know isn't simply because of the MV infecting him because it's a "virus", and that's why the MV is layered.

 

[Dust_Collector]

That's because the feats in Zelda don't compare to what's in Mario and Sonic, lol.

pfft, shows what you know (Please do not play the actual game this happens in just trust the statement bro)

 

[FuarRu23]

He's not going to respond because he cares more about trying to get people angry than having a convo. He would have done so if he actually wanted, like he did the moment I got him upset

Well, I did respond with my thoughs about their scaling, now what?

 

[ShrekAnakin]

In FF they get threatened by friggin bullets. The whole inconsistency and anti-feat issue exists pretty much everywhere, but Mario seems to get a really hard filtering because of them. But if you squint hard enough, you will find plethora of anti-feats in other heavy hitter verses like Sonic, Persona, Devil May Cry, etc.

Honestly, I do see the reasoning on using anti-feats to keep an average of sorts, but only Mario seems to be applying it. Everyone else just goes for high ends. If the same standards were applied everywhere, most big tier verses would be knocked several numbers down.

The world will become a better place when people realize there's anti feats in everything. Don't single out any verses or just verses you don't like as being guilty of this, bros.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Well, I did respond with my thoughs about their scaling, now what?

Yes, it took me calling you out to respond. Would you like my applause?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

pfft, shows what you know (Please do not play the actual game this happens in just trust the statement bro)

I've played Twilight Princess several times in the past, it's a childhood game of mine.

Mind giving me the TLDR for why this statement doesn't work? I'll admit that my knowledge of TP is spotty due to cobwebs, but it doesn't seem too bad from a glance.

 

[FuarRu23]

Yes, it took me calling you out to respond. Would you like my applause?

Not at all, because I was writing my thoughs while the page wasn't being updated and the last comment at the moment of my response was of that user asking my thoughs about Sonic scaling