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Bayonetta Verse Revisions: Low 1-C, Infinite

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All of which are universes, due to the starry skies and sun, and separate spacetime.
Starry skies alone and without other statements aren't quite enough to be considered Universal, however I don't really think it will be that hard to prove that size

About the separate spacetime stuff, do we have a quote or statement proving this that isn't linked to one or other, like a more general statement about the pocket dimensions there having a separate Space and Time ?

We know that Muspelheim are layered universes and not just one world, due to how you progress in the Lost Chapters. As you go through the last chapters, you can enter in many different types of Muspelheim. From places with the background on fire, starry skies, or dark red sunsets. You progress through portals, showing your travel through these worlds.
If said Dimension is as big as you say, why different backgrounds prove anything ? There are...countless of possibilities in a "Limitless Dimension", similar with the Old 2-C Castlevania, where Abyss had multiple levels with different backgrouds, nuked because they are expected in a whole Universe
 
Starry skies alone and without other statements aren't quite enough to be considered Universal, however I don't really think it will be that hard to prove that size

About the separate spacetime stuff, do we have a quote or statement proving this that isn't linked to one or other, like a more general statement about the pocket dimensions there having a separate Space and Time ?


If said Dimension is as big as you say, why different backgrounds prove anything ? There are...countless of possibilities in a "Limitless Dimension", similar with the Old 2-C Castlevania, where Abyss had multiple levels with different backgrouds, nuked because they are expected in a whole Universe
I know that first part, which is why I also mentioned the separate space time. We have one statement about the dimensions, which explain that they are cut off from the flow of time, which would mean they are separate space times than paradiso. By the way, these dimensions are all made by Jubileus, and the pocket dimensions that she makes are all universes in size. So this would scale to those universes.

The different backgrounds are to show that they all aren’t one world, since the description describes it as a “Primordial world” just to clear up confusion.
 
I still thing the explanation for the Tier 1 stuff is super vague, but I'm glad to see the Irenic feat returning into Quintillions of times FTL. Though, not sure about Infinite speed, but I need to take care of other things before I reread it more slowly but surely.
 
I am not very good with tier 1 and I’m not too knowledgeable on our standards and requirements to meet them, so I’ll refrain from commenting on that. I can give my input on the speed though.

I completely agree that Irenic should no longer be considered an outlier with the new Witch Time revisions, but I’m neutral on the infinite speed. Given the rather tight standards we have on giving infinite speed, and the fact that there have been some questions regarding whether Paradiso is truly infinite in size, I think we should go with:
Massively FTL+ (Via the approved calc I listed above), possibly/likely Infinite
I’ll wait for the input of others.
 
I'm having a hard time understanding how some of this stuff is tier 1.

You quote the wiki, but you also failed to quote the other part, in which uses of "transcending" and "surpassing" space-time are not automatically valid.

Aesir doesn't ontogically exist beyond space-time, that statement is refering to the fact that Aesir's vision expands across space-time, which allows him to see infinite possibilities. That's why he has the power of an Overseer. Because he Oversees those possibilities. Likewise, his dimension was never stated to be higher dimensional in any form, only a "different dimension". Different moments in time surrounding them is time manip without futher context.

The diamonds mean nothing unless "layers" means spatio-temporal dimensions, and seeing as they are all shaped 3 dimensionally, i'd be willing to bet it's more likely they are fractions of space-time as a whole.
 
I'm having a hard time understanding how some of this stuff is tier 1.

You quote the wiki, but you also failed to quote the other part, in which uses of "transcending" and "surpassing" space-time are not automatically valid.

Aesir doesn't ontogically exist beyond space-time, that statement is refering to the fact that Aesir's vision expands across space-time, which allows him to see infinite possibilities. That's why he has the power of an Overseer. Because he Oversees those possibilities. Likewise, his dimension was never stated to be higher dimensional in any form, only a "different dimension". Different moments in time surrounding them is time manip without futher context.

The diamonds mean nothing unless "layers" means spatio-temporal dimensions, and seeing as they are all shaped 3 dimensionally, i'd be willing to bet it's more likely they are fractions of space-time as a whole.
That’s untrue, while his vision does expand over Space and time, that’s just a product of having the Eyes of the world. The dimension that he exists in is another product of that, but because of the power the eyes of the world bring. It would be much similar to how Jubileus existed in the Bayonetta universe, before everything existed it was simply her, and the multiverse that she was creating. Depicted by this, and Kamiyas statement.

Aesir can still oversee space time without the eyes, infact, he does it in the main game. Aesir goes through Bayonettas timeline on multiple occasions, either to change things, or to bring people to their point in time (As seen with Balder)

When he lost his power, Aesir again was going to flee to a different point in time, meaning he can still oversee this possibilities without the eyes, and alter them how he wants to. Just to a lesser degree.

His dimension being stated to surpass their space time, would make it a higher dimension wouldn’t it? It says he existed in a different dimension, but in that dimension he had a viewpoint that transcended their space time, meaning he very clearly existed outside of it.

As for the diamond comment, what do you mean by that? I don’t believe that each diamond is a fracture of their space time, since the entry says that each represent one layer in their space time entirely.
 
Also, Aesir's "higher dimension" is Fimbulventr, which is more of a focal point of the realms. it is the only place they intercept. A regular human could fly a regular plane there. If i recall its just an a mountain on earth that cannot be normally accessed
 
Also, Aesir's "higher dimension" is Fimbulventr, which is more of a focal point of the realms. it is the only place they intercept. A regular human could fly a regular plane there. If i recall its just an a mountain on earth that cannot be normally accessed
No it is not. Fimbulventr and his dimension are two separate things, especially since Fimbulventr quite clearly doesn’t exist in a different dimension. It’s a place where people came to worship Aesir when he came down from his dimension, and acts as a nexus for all trinity of realities.

We know his dimension also isn’t the mountain, since when he loses his power again, the setting returns back to Fimbulvetr. If that was his dimension, he wouldn’t be able to access it in the first place without both eyes.
 
Also the reason why it can’t be normally accessed (in bayonettas modern day), is because there are angels constantly flying around that will destroy the planes (Seen in the first chapter) It also used to have a bridge to go up there, but it has since been destroyed. It’s just a normal mountain that he used to chill at.
 
Man, at this rate someone's going to try a Kirby upgrade at Tier 1 and I'm not going to be able to do anything about it, what even are the standards for that tier? Why is "transcending" and viewing everything as inferior, infinite possibilities the same as being infinite times more complex than being able to destroy an infinite multiverse? That doesn't make any sense, there is no reason for "transcend" to have to necessarily mean infinite more complexity and not just some superiority.
 
but his dimension isn't mentioned anywhere else. Contextually it makes sense for it to be Fimbulventr
That is true, but it still doesn’t make sense for his dimension to be the mountain using the only book reference.

Man, at this rate someone's going to try a Kirby upgrade at Tier 1 and I'm not going to be able to do anything about it, what even are the standards for that tier? Why is "transcending" and viewing everything as inferior, infinite possibilities the same as being infinite times more complex than being able to destroy an infinite multiverse? That doesn't make any sense, there is no reason for "transcend" to have to necessarily mean infinite more complexity and not just some superiority.
If the multiverse is described as having infinite possibilities, wouldn’t that make it an infinite multiverse? If not do correct me.


Eficiente is correct. We should probably close this thread.
We’ve just started the discussion
 
Well, I did basically glace over this. If Weekly feels it's ok then maybe there's stuff I'm not seeing, he should handle this.

Also, at this point on the wiki even if this is wrong and gets added that will likely help us by way of making sooner whatever revision needs to be done to make more clear standards in Tier 1.

If the multiverse is described as having infinite possibilities, wouldn’t that make it an infinite multiverse? If not do correct me.
No. Possibilities can be be synonyms with other universes if put as such in context or established. 1 person's life can have infinire possibilities in 1 verse while in another verse they only have 1 possibility/life set in stone, and in the former the possibilities may not mean anything physical and real, but the ways in which their life can be. Just as hypothetical as that sounds. Same with universes, events change here and there and then there you have possibilities.

It's in the definition of the word.
 
The most you can take out of that explanation is that the dimension Aesir is in exists outside of the regular space-time, but unless more context is given, it can't be assumed to be a higher state of existence.

Also, a layer can mean many things. It shouldn't be assumed the Bayonetta space-time has 8 dimensions just because of a vague statement like that.
 
The DB multiverse declared to have infinite possibilities and was refused. Was only accepted after several other evidences. So yeah, hardly will accepted as infinite
 
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i found an issue

from luka in game

"
The Legend of Aesir... A legend from the dawn of time.

Nobody knows where the world came from. A struggle caused the Trinity of Realities to be split into three realms: light, darkness, and chaos. Obviously, our world was the one born from chaos. The three worlds all needed rulers. Most of all, ours. And the one that ruled the chaos became known as Aesir. Aesir spent the first eternity quietly looking upon the Earth from his holy mountain. Where we only see reality and make it match our rules of the world, Aesir saw through reality, and those visions became our world. These observations became Aesir's power. Aesir's eyes were truly the eyes that created the world.

However, Aesir pitied the humans for their naivety and lack of free will, so the power he wielded was split into two equal halves and entrusted each to humanity's instincts: the Right Eye of Light, and the Left Eye of Darkness. By dividing the power of the eyes of Aesir, humans gained free will... They could now choose. With control of the Eyes of the World, the eyes that determine destiny, humans could choose their own paths. They awoke to their own identities. Man is but a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but now we were thinking reeds, and we took our big first step towards grand prosperity.

The inheritors of the eyes of Aesir had been granted the power of creation."
 
For the speed thing, didn't that got rejected several times years ago for the big ass outlier it represents?

You are arguing that this thing can become faster than the God tier and in turn the God tier can become faster than this thing and not only that but AFAIK this is the only feat on such levels (and by a fodder nonetheless)
 
For the speed thing, didn't that got rejected several times years ago for the big ass outlier it represents?

You are arguing that this thing can become faster than the God tier and in turn the God tier can become faster than this thing and not only that but AFAIK this is the only feat on such levels (and by a fodder nonetheless)
Its no longer an outlier now that Witch Time is a speed amp instead of time manip, giving the fodder angels a speed amp that the god tier does not have meaning they can b faster than her, plus two more MFTL+ feats were calced that are close to it
 
I have no qualms with irenic.

I have issues with 2-a being taken as literal, and the supposed tier 1 dimension is just a mountain on earth
 
What other requirements are needed for an infinite multiverse? I’m assuming the possibilities in question would need to be proved as universes.


in context, the supposed higher dimension is that mountain on earth
For Lukas statement, we can’t entirely assume that the mountain is the dimension by that statement. There are no other references for how long Aesir was a god before giving humanity his eyes, or how long he was in the dimension in the first place. That can simply be summed up as Aesir spent an indefinite amount of time watching humanity, but we can’t say whether it was/wasn’t after he left the dimension outside of their space time. Because as said before, it is just a normal mountain, not a dimension.


The most you can take out of that explanation is that the dimension Aesir is in exists outside of the regular space-time, but unless more context is given, it can't be assumed to be a higher state of existence.

Also, a layer can mean many things. It shouldn't be assumed the Bayonetta space-time has 8 dimensions just because of a vague statement like that.
I see, I believe that it being a higher dimension was what they were intending. Especially knowing how the eyes work, and what he was doing inside of said dimension. His viewpoint had to transcend their normal space time, since he could quite literally see the existence and happenings across the entire earth. And due to what we know about the eyes, he was not only watching over the main universe, but also the every other timeline inside of their multiverse. Since the eyes are sensitive across time, what happens in one universe, happens to the other.

Also what of the in game connections to the diamonds? As I said in the blog, the pole dancing instances in the verse use the diamonds as a layout. When you pole dance on it, the power from the item manipulates their space time.


Stamp (2:26:19)

Though I can understand it’s vagueness.
 
Its no longer an outlier now that Witch Time is a speed amp instead of time manip

And how is witch time relevant here when the Angels don't have such abilities? as far as I can see only the lumen sages have something similar

giving the fodder angels a speed amp that the god tier does not have meaning they can b faster than her,

If that's the case then why would they scale at all? Not to mention that, again, you are arguing a fodder with a speed amp is faster than the god tier and thus the god tier should scale as well
 
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