Attempting to upgrade the game Sonic cosmology

[Greenshifter]

And Idk how else to take AN

Everyone is just 2D + 1 dimension of time?

 

[Greenshifter]

I think the "superdimensional" thing is just referring to the connection of Solaris with time

Headcanon, that’s not what those kanji mean at all.

 

[JJSliderman]

Everyone is just 2D + 1 dimension of time?

They aren’t 2-D in the sense of lacking thickness, everyone in the Nights as well as Shahra are visibly 3D while in the Nights. At most they are perceived as 2-D when looking in the story from outside.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah Ig Sonic moving in 3D dimensions in the Nights is explicitly acknowledged. Nights is just weird man. Pretty sure you just can't use it for a cosmology upgrade in a R > F sense without arguing some very weird stuff.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yeah Ig Sonic moving in 3D dimensions in the Nights is explicitly acknowledged. Nights is just weird man. Pretty sure you just can't use it for a cosmology upgrade without arguing some very weird stuff.

Yes, because basically he would be saying that absolutely everyone in Sonic's world is a Low 2-C/Low 1-C being because they are R > f in this world.

 

[Greenshifter]

Doesn't stuff like this also happen in animes like SAO?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Headcanon, that’s not what those kanji mean at all.

"i think"

 

[Greenshifter]

You thinked wrong, think again

 

[JJSliderman]

The R > F transcendence can probably be scrapped, Sonic’s world is still containing a superior time axis (and possible superior spatial dimension) to the Nights, feel like it could be 5-D still. And yeah the dimension is legitimately inside the book, the book’s text and its disappearance from the AN physical storybook in Sonic’s world is a major component of the game’s plot.

 

[Greenshifter]

Sonic’s world is still containing a superior time axis

How do you intend to prove that without R > F? The "it's just a story" argument? Why can't the story happen in real-time once Sonic enters the world? Also I'm pretty sure you'd be arguing everyone in Sonic's universe is immeasurable speed for moving along a higher temporal dimension, which is a surprisingly Greenshifter-like argument which you shouldn't use here.

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbh I actually do consider base Sonic immeasurable but that’s not important.

But also, even if the story is happening in real time, the story itself does still have its own time flow as shown by Night Palace, time can be manipulated within its boundaries, and Sonic can jump to different time points within the confines of the palace only, and the rest of the Nights has nothing showing it’s affected by the actions within Night Palace. So; at least one of the macrocosm elements of Sonic’s world has a unique time flow separate from that of Sonic’s time.

 

[ShakeResounding]

How do you intend to prove that without R > F?

Because the Arabian Nights' space-time is almost entirely destroyed by the time Erazor and Darkspine fight (hence why they are Low 2-C), yet that destruction has no bearing or consequence on Sonic's space-time despite it explicitly being an embedded timeline within Sonic's world. That wouldn't inherently make everybody Infinite/Immeasurable, it just proves Sonic's universe has a greater timeflow uninfluenced by whatever is happening in the Arabian Nights.

Also, Erazor intending to cross into Sonic's world after he was done explicity guts a tierable R>F transcendence so we're good there. It just helps prove my point, essentially.

 

[Greenshifter]

@JJSliderman Honestly that might work for the local multiverse at least.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

How do you intend to prove that without R > F? The "it's just a story" argument? Why can't the story happen in real-time once Sonic enters the world? Also I'm pretty sure you'd be arguing everyone in Sonic's universe is immeasurable speed for moving along a higher temporal dimension, which is a surprisingly Greenshifter-like argument which you shouldn't use here.

Immensurable speed Motobug lol

 

[Greenshifter]

Because the Arabian Nights' space-time is almost entirely destroyed by the time Erazor and Darkspine fight (hence why they are Low 2-C), yet that destruction has no bearing or consequence on Sonic's space-time despite it explicitly being an embedded timeline within Sonic's world. That wouldn't inherently make everybody Infinite/Immeasurable, it just proves Sonic's universe has a greater timeflow uninfluenced by whatever is happening in the Arabian Nights.

Couldn't Sonic's world just be bigger than the AN across its dimensions?
Since everyone follows that greater timeflow, it implies they transcend the lower one.

Also, Erazor intending to cross into Sonic's world after he was done explicity guts a tierable R>F transcendence so we're good there. It just helps prove my point, essentially.

Not really, just means Erazor gained enough power to transcend into Sonic's world à la Infinity Ultron.

Immensurable speed Motobug lol

Welcome to my world

 

[ShakeResounding]

Couldn't Sonic's world just be bigger than the AN across its dimensions?
Since everyone follow that greater timeflow, it implies they transcend the lower one.

Trying to apply that to the statistics of ordinary beings just because they inhabit a universe that encompasses another one sounds like a severe extrapolation.

Not really, just means Erazor gained enough power to transcend into Sonic's world à la Infinity Ultron.

Mmm, maybe kek. Let's just let the staff comment.

 

[Greenshifter]

Trying to apply that to the statistics of ordinary beings just because they inhabit a universe that encompasses another one sounds like a severe extrapolation.

I know how it sounds, but at the same time you're stating that basically all properties of said universe are below them, which includes time. Heck characters get immeasurable speed for transcending a multiverse and stuff despite thinking of themselves as "regular people" so... it's all a matter of perspective.

To give an example, Sonic could rip out a page near the beginning of the book, thereby attacking someone of said reality in their past.

 

[Theuser789]

I don't think that's how Secret Rings world works. It's more like a real world that is represented by a book.

Anyways, we should focus on the main thread than any side arguments. We should focus on what the main argument is.

 

[Fireld]

I don't think that's how Secret Rings world works. It's more like a real world that is represented by a book.

Reminds of how Green Lantern & Flash reading superheroe comics in their universe but in parellel universes those comicbook heroes & their stories are real and they meet each other in multiverse events.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Reminds of how Green Lantern & Flash reading superheroe comics in their universe but in parellel universes those comicbook heroes & their stories are real.

Movie Sonic views DC as fiction, 1-C Base movie Sonic

 

[JJSliderman]

I don't think that's how Secret Rings world works. It's more like a real world that is represented by a book.

Anyways, we should focus on the main thread than any side arguments. We should focus on what the main argument is.

The book itself and its text is directly tied to the status of the Nights, rather than the book just being a portal.

The AN being within Sonic’s world is sort of a main argument as well, since it’s part of the argument for Sonic’s universe being 5-D.

 

[Greenshifter]

I don't think that's how Secret Rings world works. It's more like a real world that is represented by a book.

If you could prove this that’d be great, it’d lead to an extra temporal dimension and a lot less headaches.

 

[Greenshifter]

The book itself and its text is directly tied to the status of the Nights, rather than the book just being a portal.

Just argue it’s a time scroll situation like in DBH (probably before the downgrades). Where the scrolls represent the timelines and altering the scrolls also alters the timelines.

 

[JJSliderman]

That’s how I would describe Camelot from Black Knight, in Secret Rings the events of the story are constantly treated as a fictional narrative (with stuff like King Shahryar being “the main character”, Erazor being specifically labeled as “the genie from Aladdin”, etc.)

 

[Greenshifter]

That’s how I would describe Camelot from Black Knight

It’s either that but for Nights as well or immeasurable speed everyone from where I’m standing.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’m pretty sure not every 5-D being is immeasurable.

 

[Greenshifter]

Some are outside of time rather than transcendent to it yes. But no you’re basically saying the governing time dimension in the Arabian Nights is more impressive than the one in the palace. Everyone in Sonic’s universe would follow said time dimension as they are beyond the Arabian Nights.

Linear movement across a second temporal dimension coincides with non-linear movement across the first temporal dimension.

 

[JJSliderman]

Well, okay I suppose. Sonic does say in this game he is faster than time, all I’m saying.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Some are outside of time rather than transcendent to it yes. But no you’re basically saying the governing time dimension in the Arabian Nights is more impressive than the one in the palace. Everyone in Sonic’s universe would follow said time dimension as they are beyond the Arabian Nights.

Linear movement across a second temporal dimension coincides with non-linear movement across the first temporal dimension.

Well, okay I suppose. Sonic does say in this game he is faster than time, all I’m saying.

Immensurable speed Motobug lol

 

[Greenshifter]

Sonic isn’t the issue, could potentially get some sweet speed upgrades from this CRT. No it’s every regular human who also linearly moves across the second temporal dimension and thus non-linearly across the first who is the problem.

I’m starting to sound as cryptic as DT, help!

 

[JJSliderman]

So the problem is incredulity?

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh so we’re going that direction, boi I invented everyone in a verse being immeasurable speed muhahaha.

By all means, proceed and argue everyone in Sonic has at least immeasurable speed. I’ll get the snacks.

 

[Clown96]

Holy shit that crt isn't done yet

 

[JJSliderman]

Oh so we’re going that direction, boi I invented everyone in a verse being immeasurable speed muhahaha.

By all means, proceed and argue everyone in Sonic has at least immeasurable speed. I’ll get the snacks.

I mean, I could definitely argue that everyone in the main cast may have some avenue for it, including notable humans like the G.U.N. Commander and Eggman, through a combination of super form speed downscaling and single-timeline theory. But my goal wasn’t really arguing everyone is immeasurable just because they exist in a 5th dimensional space, in the same vein that Sonic existing in 4th dimension space didn’t automatically make base Sonic 4-D.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah I’m not saying everyone who exists in a realm with 2 temporal dimensions is that fast. It’s just the specific size and lore surrounding the Knights which leads me to that conclusion.

So will you instead go for the Time scrolls approach?

 

[JJSliderman]

I’m not sure, because if it was a time scroll angle, then the Nights would just be a universe parallel to Sonic’s, which clashes with the idea that this realm is a fictional story written by someone in Sonic’s world that achieved its own sentience.

 

[Greenshifter]

Could just have gained sentience somewhere in the multiverse. There’s not a lot of difference with a dream, in fact, what if it’s a dream?

 

[JJSliderman]

It’s not, the realm can produce dreamers but it’s never stated as a dream, series is generally pretty clear when a realm itself is a dream by default.

 

[Greenshifter]

Fair

 

[JJSliderman]

Well, if both this embedded timeline theory and the idea that four spatial dimensions+time axis from IDW doesn’t make 5-D, I suppose I can drop the idea of Sonic’s universe being 5-D. Might need more input on that.