Feels like this thread is going nowhere
yep!
Sonic's best feats proper are like Tier 2 (face-tanking 2-C levels of destruction)
Yeah but we're talking scaling. Having lower feats doesn't invalidate scaling unless said feats act as caps like max effort.
and the Tier 1 stuff is reserved for high-end Super Form level things, because narratively speaking that's always been the case.
Same goes for tier 2 too tbh. Then they randomly just became tier 2 apparently.
They just grow is what I've been led to believe, apparently every second, a handful of the tier 2 stuff comes from scaling off past Super lv threats anyhow.
Take Frontiers, for instance. You can say Sonic survives attacks from these Titans in base, but narratively, the fact of the matter is that Sonic gets dumpstered by the Titans and needs to become Super Sonic to stand a chance (which he even says himself, as he says he's not fighting them on his own and instead needs "the Chaos Emeralds and a little bit of luck"). Plus, Sonic surviving Titan attacks is mostly gameplay and if we're to use gameplay, there's a section in which Sonic is being chased down by Knight and if he gets hit once he insta-dies. So it's not consistent.
Well yeah, but for example, you can be tier 1, and still get murked by tier 1's.
It is a whole infinity difference. It's no different from a 10-A fighting a 3-A, or anything in between. Titans could be literally decillions of times stronger, flat one shot him and still be the same tier.
And I feel like "slew of arguments" is a bit misleading? Not intentionally, I'm not trying to accuse you of that, but I think it's just a matter of where those arguments come from. Namely, it's a lot of people saying the same thing about the same scaling chain - not necessarily about different stuff that would result in any degree of consistency.
Nah that's the thing, there has been like 3 threads now where half the arguments is
"This would make Sonic scale, here is why [a bunch of statements and evidence for why Sonic would scale to thing]. And that's bad so this is wrong".
If Sonic in the end scales to Thing A due to evidence presented, that just means he scales.
Like to frame this in a simple way, it's like
"Freeza blows up Planet Vegeta".
"Goku is below planet level".
"Goku ends up scaling to Freeza".
"Freeza can't be planet level because Goku scales now".
That's obviously a simplified bad whataboutism example but you get my view here kinda.
How is a bunch of random scans showing he'd scale counter-evidence, that's just arguing he scales, not that the feats being used to scale Thing A is wrong.
I always see him scaling is bad, but never
why it can't happen. Like is there a cap? A bunch of anti-feats that outweigh the multiple scalings now?
It isn't like the tier 1 itself is wrong, that has feats and showings, much like how we know Freeza is planet level because of actual planet level feats, we know Sonic does have tier 1 feats, the point of contention just seems to be Sonic himself scaling is bad because Sonic can't be that high for some reason I'm evidently not aware of if it exists.
I'm just being shown evidence constantly of him scaling to stuff, but said stuff in and of itself is seemingly legit.
And in this very thread one of the points of contention is "MO can't be tier 1 because Sonic might scale, and Sonic isn't that high so he can't be either", when in the same vain the opposite is true and that adds to the pile of stuff that would implicate Sonic being that high after a certain point. Like the tier 1 feats and evidence still exists for MO, they're there either way. So why would sonic scaling effect if MO scales to these completely unrelated things?
I just don't get it, the arguments almost seem like self-sabotage, why bring up evidence for stuff people don't want? If there's evidence, what's the problem. It's just ******* confusing, and never elaborated on but the evidence all points toward him scaling.
Personally, i don't care what he's at, 2-C, 3-A, 2-B, 2-A, Low 1-C, 1-C, ******* 1-A, just as long as there's evidence for it and doesn't get actively contradicted by like hard stuff a bunch, whatever. I'm just saying this type of argument makes zero sense from my pov. Well this doesn't matter for this thread anyway, so no point continuing this line.
Maybe it's just the way the scene comes off but to me it doesn't really look like Shadow is throwing the fight until that end point. He didn't use his Doom Powers, then he contemplated using them before deciding to lose because he'll either win on equal terms (without using them) or not at all.
Yes but as said, we 100% know Shadow is innately stronger. Honestly it just comes off as them being chill, gameplay, and then Shadow going ehhhh and just throws because like, yeah he COULD beat Sonic's ass at that time, but that isn't fair.
How can Shadow be stronger, like multiple boosts at that, at that point, but somehow he's losing to Sonic simply because he didn't use Doom Spear?
And mind you, while this has no bearing on Shadow in that exact instance, the very fact Shadow can spontaneously grow Infinity x Infinity x Infinity by just growing some wings, well I'm just saying, the growth is there.
I'm not sure how he planned before the fight, though. That's not really implied, and him taking the Fake Emerald wasn't because of that either. He honest to god just took it for the hell of it
No I don't mean at the start of the game. I mean in the fight, he obviously planned a head a bit because otherwise how in the world would he have made the plan to begin with? He probably started cooking when Sonic showed up, but all the same.
He had to of knew he was gonna lose in order to even have the fake emerald ready to drop that instead, and assuming he decided to do that in that exact instance is kind of odd because Sonic blindsided him while he was distracted, having him cook up that plan in that split second as he was getting yeeted is a bit eh. Like obviously he stayed down on purpose given he gets back up and is fine the instant he's out of view but still.
