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This thread mainly serves to clear up some of the lingering points from this one:
vsbattles.com
since they weren’t resolved and that thread is very long now.
I’d also recommend potentially reading this blog one more time as a refresher, as I will pull arguments sourced within it:
vsbattles.fandom.com
Part 1:
Why Cyberspace (and Otherworld from Sonic Channel) should be 5-D.
To reiterate from that previous thread:
“Cyberspace being 5-D:
1. Because of how it pulls dreams and memories out of the headspace of those who enter, and Eggman entered Cyberspace post-Test Run in chronology, it likely pulled his dreams of a fourth dimensional space out of his head and incorporated them into Cyberspace. Cyberspace has statements that indicate universal/infinite size and a temporal component, hence 5-D (since there would be 4-dimensional space present within Cyberspace, an infinite size, and a temporal component, collectively adding up to 5 dimensions, the same as argued for Maginaryworld).
2. Cyberspace was created with the Chaos Emeralds by the Ancients, which under the instruction of the same beings, also created Titans with power accepted to scale to 5-D.
3. Eggman acknowledges Cyberspace as more advanced than any digital creation he has constructed at the time and containing more data than is quantifiable (making it larger than any data amount he has seen prior), which includes the 4-D space test run maze. See before as to why that would make Cyberspace jump to 5-D.
4. To justify Cyberspace being beyond just universal in size, Cyberspace contains the dreams of multiple Ancients (each dream currently accepted as Low 2-C), along with portions of the United Federation and Eggnet mainframe. In the case of the Federation, their mainframe (as demonstrated in Shadow the Hedgehog’s digital circuit level), has pits of “infinite darkness”, so Cyberspace is potentially absorbing a portion of infinite data from the Federation, helping justify the infinite size of Cyberspace.
And for Light Man, his dimensions are classed as “super other-dimensional infinite spaces”, which under the same context as Solaris and the fact Eggman has also constructed 4-D spaces with much weaker technology that has a similar purpose of trapping characters within an alternate space, I think that could be enough to say “super-dimensional” in the context is enough to jump from 4-D to 5-D.”
If accepted, Cyberspace would become 5-D, as would Otherworld, meaning Eggman in his Light Man form has a direct 5-D feat instead of reliance on scaling. Him being equal to Super Sonic could also reinforce this.
Cyberspace and cyber corruption based hax would also be boosted to 5-D in potency, as they are elements directly spawning from a 5-D realm.
Moreover, due to the fact that these spaces are referred to as “dreams”, it would also mean the potential size of dream worlds that come from individual beings gets boosted to 5-D.
This wouldn’t lead to a higher dimensionality than the current maximum, just interesting to note.
UPDATE:
Because of the recent hypertimeline CRT...nothing changes because hyper time extends above MW and CS's range anyway. However, I did want to nix Solaris' 7-D existence, and also make it clear that Otherworld should NOT be the same size as Cyberspace, because Cyberspace has many things going for it (such as a higher volume of individuals supplying dreams and 10,000 years of time to collect volume) to make it bigger than Otherworld. So, essentially a debunk on all dream worlds being the same size (which is corroborated by the existence of 4-D space in general). So, more reason why anyone interfering with a random dream world should not automatically get 5-D versions of dream related hax.
Part 2:
A debate was also sparked regarding Super Neo Metal Sonic and Master Overlord. Currently, Metal Overlord (from Heroes) is accepted as scaling to max power Super Sonic, as the characters needed to charge the Chaos Emeralds to barely have a chance to win, and Super Sonic alone cannot damage Metal Overlord.
I’m here to argue that at the very least, Super Neo Metal should also scale.
Simply put, Super Neo Metal is
-Coming from a far stronger Neo Metal Sonic than the one in Heroes
-Absorbed far stronger bio data (to an infinitely greater degree) than what Neo Metal absorbed in Heroes (which was the primary catalyst for Metal Overlord, as the bio data of the player characters and Chaos (the character, not the Emeralds) is what Eggman makes note of regarding Metal’s transformation, compared to his Egg Fleet). Base Sonic’s bio data is Low 2-C compared to all the Heroes characters just being in the 4-C to High 4-C range, simple logic.
-Has the Master Emerald supplying extra energy on top of all the aforementioned variables.
-Is never harmed by an attack from a base character and has to be power nulled to be beaten.
With all this in mind, Super Neo Metal should easily be superior to Metal Overlord, as the two things that allowed Overlord to happen (the bio data of the Heroes player characters and Neo Metal Sonic himself), are things that Super Neo Metal has far superior versions of in his arsenal. Even considering that Super Neo Metal cannot draw out the full potential of the Master Emerald, it is still extra power, so it does not hurt Super Metal’s chances of scaling.
As such, Super Neo Metal should receive the same rating as Metal Overlord, a flat Low 1-C.
As for Master Overlord, he is much trickier. By all accounts and lore, Master Overlord should be superior to Super Neo Metal, as he also has Shadow’s bio data now, while keeping the Master Emerald. However, the fact Master Overlord can be harmed by base form characters is an non-ignorable anti-feat, and as such I think it’s fair to say Master Overlord gets a “Low 2-C, possibly Low 1-C” rating to account for both arguments.
That’s about it though. Maybe I’ll remember other stuff soon enough as the thread progresses, though.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral: DarkDragonMedeus (Neutral to leaning agree with 5-D Cyberspace, disagree with 5-D Super Neo and Master Overlord)
Sonic Cosmology part 3: The End of Magingelion
That is not the case, you are thinking of Rush Adventure, in the first Sonic Rush the Eggmen would let the 2 worlds get destroyed and then create the Eggman land Rush is the same. There's a tear in the space-time continuum and they're directly said later on to merge the two universes together...
since they weren’t resolved and that thread is very long now.
I’d also recommend potentially reading this blog one more time as a refresher, as I will pull arguments sourced within it:
Sonic the Hedgehog (Game) Cosmology Blog
vsbattles.fandom.com
Part 1:
Why Cyberspace (and Otherworld from Sonic Channel) should be 5-D.
To reiterate from that previous thread:
“Cyberspace being 5-D:
1. Because of how it pulls dreams and memories out of the headspace of those who enter, and Eggman entered Cyberspace post-Test Run in chronology, it likely pulled his dreams of a fourth dimensional space out of his head and incorporated them into Cyberspace. Cyberspace has statements that indicate universal/infinite size and a temporal component, hence 5-D (since there would be 4-dimensional space present within Cyberspace, an infinite size, and a temporal component, collectively adding up to 5 dimensions, the same as argued for Maginaryworld).
2. Cyberspace was created with the Chaos Emeralds by the Ancients, which under the instruction of the same beings, also created Titans with power accepted to scale to 5-D.
3. Eggman acknowledges Cyberspace as more advanced than any digital creation he has constructed at the time and containing more data than is quantifiable (making it larger than any data amount he has seen prior), which includes the 4-D space test run maze. See before as to why that would make Cyberspace jump to 5-D.
4. To justify Cyberspace being beyond just universal in size, Cyberspace contains the dreams of multiple Ancients (each dream currently accepted as Low 2-C), along with portions of the United Federation and Eggnet mainframe. In the case of the Federation, their mainframe (as demonstrated in Shadow the Hedgehog’s digital circuit level), has pits of “infinite darkness”, so Cyberspace is potentially absorbing a portion of infinite data from the Federation, helping justify the infinite size of Cyberspace.
And for Light Man, his dimensions are classed as “super other-dimensional infinite spaces”, which under the same context as Solaris and the fact Eggman has also constructed 4-D spaces with much weaker technology that has a similar purpose of trapping characters within an alternate space, I think that could be enough to say “super-dimensional” in the context is enough to jump from 4-D to 5-D.”
If accepted, Cyberspace would become 5-D, as would Otherworld, meaning Eggman in his Light Man form has a direct 5-D feat instead of reliance on scaling. Him being equal to Super Sonic could also reinforce this.
Cyberspace and cyber corruption based hax would also be boosted to 5-D in potency, as they are elements directly spawning from a 5-D realm.
Moreover, due to the fact that these spaces are referred to as “dreams”, it would also mean the potential size of dream worlds that come from individual beings gets boosted to 5-D.
This wouldn’t lead to a higher dimensionality than the current maximum, just interesting to note.
UPDATE:
Because of the recent hypertimeline CRT...nothing changes because hyper time extends above MW and CS's range anyway. However, I did want to nix Solaris' 7-D existence, and also make it clear that Otherworld should NOT be the same size as Cyberspace, because Cyberspace has many things going for it (such as a higher volume of individuals supplying dreams and 10,000 years of time to collect volume) to make it bigger than Otherworld. So, essentially a debunk on all dream worlds being the same size (which is corroborated by the existence of 4-D space in general). So, more reason why anyone interfering with a random dream world should not automatically get 5-D versions of dream related hax.
Part 2:
A debate was also sparked regarding Super Neo Metal Sonic and Master Overlord. Currently, Metal Overlord (from Heroes) is accepted as scaling to max power Super Sonic, as the characters needed to charge the Chaos Emeralds to barely have a chance to win, and Super Sonic alone cannot damage Metal Overlord.
I’m here to argue that at the very least, Super Neo Metal should also scale.
Simply put, Super Neo Metal is
-Coming from a far stronger Neo Metal Sonic than the one in Heroes
-Absorbed far stronger bio data (to an infinitely greater degree) than what Neo Metal absorbed in Heroes (which was the primary catalyst for Metal Overlord, as the bio data of the player characters and Chaos (the character, not the Emeralds) is what Eggman makes note of regarding Metal’s transformation, compared to his Egg Fleet). Base Sonic’s bio data is Low 2-C compared to all the Heroes characters just being in the 4-C to High 4-C range, simple logic.
-Has the Master Emerald supplying extra energy on top of all the aforementioned variables.
-Is never harmed by an attack from a base character and has to be power nulled to be beaten.
With all this in mind, Super Neo Metal should easily be superior to Metal Overlord, as the two things that allowed Overlord to happen (the bio data of the Heroes player characters and Neo Metal Sonic himself), are things that Super Neo Metal has far superior versions of in his arsenal. Even considering that Super Neo Metal cannot draw out the full potential of the Master Emerald, it is still extra power, so it does not hurt Super Metal’s chances of scaling.
As such, Super Neo Metal should receive the same rating as Metal Overlord, a flat Low 1-C.
As for Master Overlord, he is much trickier. By all accounts and lore, Master Overlord should be superior to Super Neo Metal, as he also has Shadow’s bio data now, while keeping the Master Emerald. However, the fact Master Overlord can be harmed by base form characters is an non-ignorable anti-feat, and as such I think it’s fair to say Master Overlord gets a “Low 2-C, possibly Low 1-C” rating to account for both arguments.
That’s about it though. Maybe I’ll remember other stuff soon enough as the thread progresses, though.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral: DarkDragonMedeus (Neutral to leaning agree with 5-D Cyberspace, disagree with 5-D Super Neo and Master Overlord)
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