Izana outpaces bullets CRT

[HollowVanity]

Here to de-construct the argument that Izana didn't outpace bullets, heres my recent calc where I lowball the distance moved by Izana.

Scan

This is how you read manga, the panel at the top is always what happened first, when you look at the panel showing what happened you see Kisaki shooting a bullet and then Izana with no bullet wound shoving Kakucho out of the way showing he outpaced bullets

Arguments posed by other people:

1. Why didn't Kakucho dodge the bullet if he is capable of doing it. Debunk: Plot induced stupidity (events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot). The whole point of this scene was to kill Izana off and do it in a good way, the best way was for him to die saving Kakucho, this really needs no more debating. Plus, Kakucho only scales to subsonic+ now

2. Characters are constantly dying to bullets so supersonic+ would be an outlier. Debunk: The only times characters have died to bullets I will name below

1. Mikey gets shot by Naoto. Mikey was looking away from Naoto and wanted to be killed, he was literally begging Takemichi to pop a cap in his head lol
2. Kakucho gets shot. Kakucho was looking away from Kisaki so its not really a matter of being an outlier
3. Chifuyu gets shot. Chifuyu was tied up, pretty simple
4. Draken gets shot. Draken was saving Takemichi and Senju here, his death was important to the plot so ofc he had to die. He couldn't have caught the bullets since thats not a matter of only speed. Plus, to move both Takemichi and Senju out of the way would have taken ALOT more speed and a lot more LS then the verse has, calculating it, we get this: F = 105 x 1178 =12612 kg, meaning he would have had to have a class 25 LS to actually pick them up and move them out of the way in time, meaning he had to tank the bullets to save them.
5. Why didn't a high tier (Senju) not move Takemichi out of the way of the bullets. I mean, Takemichi literally had her pinned down so she couldn't have done much

3. Why would characters be scared of guns if they were faster then them. Debunk: characters likely use guns because the piercing damage they have. For example

Without a knife, Angry is capable of no diffing and blitzing Mucho, but when Mucho has a knife, Angry struggles with him and is much more cautious even though he is capable of blitzing him, thats how we know isn't because the speed of the knife, its because the knife is capable of piercing Angry. The same argument can be said for bullets, guns are scary to characters because if a bullet lands, they would likely die, meaning, characters need to be much more cautious around guns which is why they're usually shocked when someone has a gun. The same happens when someone pulls a knife out, characters are shocked. Also, only mid tiers are shocked and they scale to subsonic+ so yeah

4. Why would characters use guns if they were faster then them. Debunk: The only time a high tier has used a gun was when Izana used it on Mikey as a last resort, when he was beaten up and his limbs were tired, he was likely slower then a gun during that instance.

"But hollow, how is he slower then a gun in one instance but faster when saving Kakucho", thanks for pointing this out, I can explain.

When Izana heard Kisaki scream "DIE" he likely would have snapped back and saw Kakucho was about to get shot, Izana then in this state most likely had a surge of adrenaline and likely became stronger then even him at the start of the arc.
https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/adrenaline#:~:text=When you have a lot,called noradrenaline (or norepinephrine).
"When you have a lot of adrenaline in your blood, you don’t feel as much pain, so you can keep running or fighting, even if you are injured. It makes you stronger"
"you get a temporary boost of strength"
"A person exhibiting hysterical strength is reckoned to have lifted at least 3000lbs"
Proof that adrenaline is capable of making you stronger far past your normal capabilities, strength goes hand in hand with speed btw
"the stronger an athlete is for their body weight, the faster their times in short sprints will be"

I think this is it, the supporters of the verse can also help me add more.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I have talked about this bazillion times, I was planning to make a Big CRT which includes this.

 

[HollowVanity]

I have talked about this bazillion times, I was planning to make a Big CRT which includes this.

Thats good, I think my points are pretty good but if you have more points feel free to message me them

 

[Zefra3011]

I'll reply to this when I have time, anyway, the points are the same as the last 2-3 threads and CGMs already agreed to calc this as a simple blitz when we remade the calcs for the verse, I'll write more later, I dont have time now.

 

[HollowVanity]

I'll reply to this when I have time, anyway, the points are the same as the last 2-3 threads and CGMs already agreed to calc this as a simple blitz when we remade the calcs for the verse, I'll write more later, I dont have time now.

I severely doubt there is a debunk for these points. I look forward to it

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I'll reply to this when I have time, anyway, the points are the same as the last 2-3 threads and CGMs already agreed to calc this as a simple blitz when we remade the calcs for the verse, I'll write more later, I dont have time now.

Oh, that's because you twisted one of the things I came up with and present the twisted version on staff discussion without any of the genuine supporters having a chance to speak to it, you couldn't even refute the points I presented.

 

[Syncornize]

I'll reply to this when I have time, anyway, the points are the same as the last 2-3 threads and CGMs already agreed to calc this as a simple blitz when we remade the calcs for the verse, I'll write more later, I dont have time now.

I don't think it's necessary. The problems with this calc have been discussed in an earlier thread, and the CGMs have said how to consider thid feat like so many others in the verse. Discussing this is pointless, I think Linking the discussion and waiting for the CGMs' intervention is a good thing without creating problems.
(someone CGM is already in disagreemet)

I think a thread is needed to give a limit to the speed of the verse. so that we don't have problems in the future with senseless speeds that are too high for the verse

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

This is not gonna go well. This is for sure not gonna go well.

 

[Syncornize]

Oh, that's because you twisted one of the things I came up with and present the twisted version on staff discussion without any of the genuine supporters having a chance to speak to it, you couldn't even refute the points I presented.

Let's stop saying these things, your message brings no meaning or value to either the thread or the main topic of it.

if you have problems with Zefra discuss them with him privately, not on the wiki. Damn, these things happen so often only in TR threads

 

[HollowVanity]

Stop acting like your above a debate thread. I will be debating this, instead of coming here and saying "look at the past threads" debunk my points, your opinion isn't needed if you are just going act all high and mighty.

If you join an upgrade thread dont say some stupid shit like "I think a thread is needed to give a limit to the speed of the verse. so that we don't have problems in the future with senseless speeds that are too high for the verse"

Your just insulting the work I did to make this CRT, please unfollow if you aren't going to bring any value to the table.

Any how, I hope the next people that join this thread can have a debate with me and discuss the Izana gun feat

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Let's stop saying these things, your message brings no meaning or value to either the thread or the main topic of it.

if you have problems with Zefra discuss them with him privately, not on the wiki. Damn, these things happen so often only in TR threads

My apologies, I was just describing why things are the way they are.

 

[Second22]

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Idk... Looks like Izana jumped in as Kisaki pulled the trigger he was faster than Kisaki pulling the trigger, not the bullet.
I'm neutral on this(for now).

 

[HollowVanity]

Idk... Looks like Izana jumped in as Kisaki pulled the trigger he was faster than Kisaki pulling the trigger, not the bullet.
I'm neutral on this(for now).

How ? We see the bullet get shot first and then see Izana jump in after the bullet is shot. You can't just go against how manga panels are positioned, we see 2 bullets fired before Izana pops up with 0 bullets in his chest. Feat couldn't be more obvious

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Need a hug?

 

[Passersby]

following

 

[DeltaStriker22]

How ? We see the bullet get shot first and then see Izana jump in after the bullet is shot. You can't just go against how manga panels are positioned, we see 2 bullets fired before Izana pops up with 0 bullets in his chest. Feat couldn't be more obvious

Just because the panel is placed after the bullet being shot doesn't always mean it happened after it. It could be the autor showing two things happening simultaneously.

For example this panel. Here the protagonist's expression didn't change after the girl was done with her monologue despite the panel being placed after it, it was like that the whole time while her monologue was going on.
This is what I understood happening in the Kisaki shooting scene when I read it. Of course, I could be wrong hence why I'm neutral.
I can't be sure until the anime adapts the scene.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Idk... Looks like Izana jumped in as Kisaki pulled the trigger he was faster than Kisaki pulling the trigger, not the bullet.
I'm neutral on this(for now).

following

Well, I'm planning to make big thread which includes this feat, I'm probably gonna elaborate better and include more important things much better than Hollow, if you're interested, I'll let you know when I make it.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Just because the panel is placed after the bullet being shot doesn't always mean it happened after it. It could be the autor showing two things happening simultaneously.

For example this panel. Here the protagonist's expression didn't change after the girl was done with her monologue despite the panel being placed after it, it was like that the whole time while her monologue was going on.
This is what I understood happening in the Kisaki shooting scene when I read it. Of course, I could be wrong hence why I'm neutral.
I can't be sure until the anime adapts the scene.

This is a different case, we always have to go with default assumptions if there are nothing that contradicts the default assumption

 

[Passersby]

Well, I'm planning to make big thread which includes this feat, I'm probably gonna elaborate better and include more important things much better than Hollow, if you're interested, I'll let you know when I make it.

don't know much about the verse, but i will support the argument that seems most reasonable if i don't get lazy and just do nothing at all

anyways

i wish you good luck in upgrading the verse my friend

 

[HollowVanity]

Just because the panel is placed after the bullet being shot doesn't always mean it happened after it. It could be the autor showing two things happening simultaneously.

For example this panel. Here the protagonist's expression didn't change after the girl was done with her monologue despite the panel being placed after it, it was like that the whole time while her monologue was going on.
This is what I understood happening in the Kisaki shooting scene when I read it. Of course, I could be wrong hence why I'm neutral.
I can't be sure until the anime adapts the scene.

Your assuming though. Usually when a panel is positioned under another panel it means they happen during different timeframes. Your assuming that they happen at the same time with no backing. My backing is that its much more common for panels under other panels to happen during different timeframes.

We can't just nitpick calcs like this. The panel order of the feat usually means there happening at different times, you showed a rare example.

 

[Dinozxd]

Agree with the whole thread. It's pretty well constructed and straight forward. I would like to see Morris' thread too though. He'll likely bring up more points about the Izana calc and characters being slower than bullets arguments.

 

[Passersby]

off topic, but beautiful art


that expression legit makes your heart ache even with no context

 

[Dinozxd]

Hope this doesn't become a 5+ pages long thread like most TR threads lol

 

[Passersby]

Hope this doesn't become a 5+ pages long thread like most TR threads lol

nah, the more the merrier, let there be war

 

[Syncornize]

Stop acting like your above a debate thread. I will be debating this, instead of coming here and saying "look at the past threads" debunk my points, your opinion isn't needed if you are just going act all high and mighty.

If you join an upgrade thread dont say some stupid shit like "I think a thread is needed to give a limit to the speed of the verse. so that we don't have problems in the future with senseless speeds that are too high for the verse"

Your just insulting the work I did to make this CRT, please unfollow if you aren't going to bring any value to the table.

Any how, I hope the next people that join this thread can have a debate with me and discuss the Izana gun feat

This CTR brings back points already discussed and rejected, also many of these "rebunk" are already been discussed and rejected in previous threads.Not everyone likes to repeat themselves 100 times, if it is not necessary I am happy to avoid it. I could understand if new and relevant points were brought up....

I simply said that in order not to create problems as in all other Tr threds it’s better to wait for input from the CGMs and based on how they will respond we will see whether to enter in a discussion or not.

 

[HollowVanity]

This CTR brings back points already discussed and rejected, also many of these "rebunk" are already been discussed and rejected in previous threads.Not everyone likes to repeat themselves 100 times, if it is not necessary I am happy to avoid it. I could understand if new and relevant points were brought up....

I simply said that in order not to create problems as in all other Tr threds it’s better to wait for input from the CGMs and based on how they will respond we will see whether to enter in a discussion or not.

You can avoid it. These points are practically undebunkable.

Its insulting.

 

[Passersby]

You can avoid it. These points are practically undebunkable.

of course, the arguments may seem rock solid you you, however, different people have different ways of analyzing and processing informtion and may come to conclusions that you may not be able to come to alone by yourself exept if you constantly analyze your own arguments quite a bit


that's why asking for input from others is usually a good way in finding flaws in your own arguments and bettering yourself

that's also why arguing and exchaging points is fun, you get to see the prespective of others, so let's simply wait for more people to give their input before making a judgement

 

[Dinozxd]

This CTR brings back points already discussed and rejected, also many of these "rebunk" are already been discussed and rejected in previous threads.

I disagree. Most of the points pointed out in this thread were ignored on past threads.

 

[HollowVanity]

of course, the arguments may seem rock solid you you, however, different people have different ways of analyzing and processing informtion and may come to conclusions that you may not be able to come to alone by yourself exept if you constantly analyze your own arguments quite a bit


that's why asking for input from others is usually a good way in finding flaws in your own arguments and bettering yourself

that's also why arguing and exchaging points is fun, you get to see the prespective of others, so let's simply wait for more people to give their input before making a judgement

erm, just let me have enemies in peace

 

[Passersby]

erm, just let me have enemies in peace

 

[DeltaStriker22]

off topic, but beautiful art


that expression legit makes your heart ache even with no context

The sauce is Alice in Borderland if you want to check it out.

 

[Passersby]

The sauce is Alice in Borderland if you want to check it out.

thanks, i will finish binge reading MHA first tho, shit got me hooked

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Your assuming though. Usually when a panel is positioned under another panel it means they happen during different timeframes. Your assuming that they happen at the same time with no backing. My backing is that its much more common for panels under other panels to happen during different timeframes.

We can't just nitpick calcs like this. The panel order of the feat usually means there happening at different times, you showed a rare example.

Just saying what I think happened, not saying you're wrong(or I'm right).
I'm just saying I'm not sure if he actually outpased the bullet or the trigger that's why I'm neutral.

 

[Dinozxd]

Just saying what I think happened, not saying you're wrong(or I'm right).
I'm just saying I'm not sure if he actually outpased the bullet or the trigger that's why I'm neutral.

Wakui draws aim dodging/trigger outspeeding scenes like this. Izana saving Kakucho is drawn much different.

Also, the current accepted calculation for this feat still has to go through changes even if Izana just outspeeds Kisaki pulling the trigger as I calculated that timeframe here and It's faster than 0.029s.

So the current accepted calculation have problems either way.

 

[Zefra3011]

This is how you read manga, the panel at the top is always what happened first, when you look at the panel showing what happened you see Kisaki shooting a bullet and then Izana with no bullet wound shoving Kakucho out of the way showing he outpaced bullets

Yes this has been presented in the last threads/blogs as well, regardless:

Ok, so using this logic Izana pushed Kakucho away after/during the sound of the second bullet since it's drawn between the two panels right? Well, do you know that by the time you can shoot a second bullet with that gun the first bullets already reached the target? especially since looking at your calc Kakucho was only 0,4 m away from the gun, the bullet needs 0,001 s to reach him and you can't fire a second bullet within this timeframe, but unfortunately Izana tanked every single bullets so he was there before the first one but looking at the panel order as order of events comes out Izana was there after/while earing the sound of the second bullet so it's litteally impossible, same shit happens here, which is a similar feat, it comes out Takemichi closed his eye after the sound of the third bullet and Draken was there after that but even here Draken tanked everything but using panels order every bullet should have hit Takemichi.

EDIT: Best way to see the feat imo (which has been accepted by some CGM in the thread I linked at the bottom):
Kakucho was trying to get to Kisaki so Kisaki shot him but Izana managed to get in the way in time, Kisaki realized only after that Izana was there, Izana's body moved by his own when he realized that Kakucho was going to die so he probably started to run when Kisaki said "Die!" at Kakucho which is right before the shooting and managed to get in the way while Kisaki started to shoot.

Also while usually in a manga the events follow the panel orders, it's not always the case, especially here.

1. Why didn't Kakucho dodge the bullet if he is capable of doing it. Debunk: Plot induced stupidity (events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot). The whole point of this scene was to kill Izana off and do it in a good way, the best way was for him to die saving Kakucho, this really needs no more debating. Plus, Kakucho only scales to subsonic+ now

Yes this was also already presented,

litterally kakucho would slightly downscale from this feat, in fact in the characters book we can see that Izana had to set a rule "The attacks from the king can't be avoided" because Kakucho was almost at his level, so since the calc imply Izana is 4x speed of bullets Kakucho is almost 4x speed of bullets but yeah he couldn't avoid it and if he could it doesn't make sense Izana needed to save him, also PIS isn't the excuse to let outliers scale since yk everytime a bullet is used in TR people die, Draken, Senju, Izana, Takemichi, Chifuyu all died by bullets, a PSI would be if they could avoid bullets 90% of the time and the rest 10% they can't but unfortunately they just die when they are shot.

2. Kakucho gets shot. Kakucho was looking away from Kisaki so its not really a matter of being an outlier

Already presented,

If you refer the scene before the feat yes, but during the feat Kakucho was looking to Kisaki and he was aware he had a gun pointed at him.

4. Draken gets shot. Draken was saving Takemichi and Senju here, his death was important to the plot so ofc he had to die. He couldn't have caught the bullets since thats not a matter of only speed. Plus, to move both Takemichi and Senju out of the way would have taken ALOT more speed and a lot more LS then the verse has, calculating it, we get this: F = 105 x 1178 =12612 kg, meaning he would have had to have a class 25 LS to actually pick them up and move them out of the way in time, meaning he had to tank the bullets to save them.

More less already presented,

Are you aware people can actually in different ways? Tell me valid reason why if the author wants them to be faster than bullets he constantly make them die by bullets, what the reason? Is he dumb or something?

5. Why didn't a high tier (Senju) not move Takemichi out of the way of the bullets. I mean, Takemichi literally had her pinned down so she couldn't have done much

More less already presented,

Senju is stronger than Takemichi, litterally a peak human LS/street ap could have moved him.

3. Why would characters be scared of guns if they were faster then them. Debunk: characters likely use guns because the piercing damage they have. For example

Without a knife, Angry is capable of no diffing and blitzing Mucho, but when Mucho has a knife, Angry struggles with him and is much more cautious even though he is capable of blitzing him, thats how we know isn't because the speed of the knife, its because the knife is capable of piercing Angry. The same argument can be said for bullets, guns are scary to characters because if a bullet lands, they would likely die, meaning, characters need to be much more cautious around guns which is why they're usually shocked when someone has a gun. The same happens when someone pulls a knife out, characters are shocked. Also, only mid tiers are shocked and they scale to subsonic+ so yeah

Already presented,

Angry never blitzed Mucho since Mucho was, in fact, able to grab him, Angry just outskilled him (also because Mucho litterally reacts to him but yeah).ì
Nah piercing damage isn't a problem if you can see the shit approaching you in slow motion as the calc presentes since they are x4 time faster than the bullet, it's just an excuse, also people like Draken which scales to Hanma who has a combat speed almost on pair with base Mikey said guns are dangerous.

4. Why would characters use guns if they were faster then them. Debunk: The only time a high tier has used a gun was when Izana used it on Mikey as a last resort, when he was beaten up and his limbs were tired, he was likely slower then a gun during that instance.

Already presented,

So a tired Izana is like 5 times slower than himself at his 100%? like, what? It's too much difference, also it wouldn't still make sense he used a gun against a guy who is supposed to be x4 faster than the bullet, even if the bullet was actually faster than Izana.

"But hollow, how is he slower then a gun in one instance but faster when saving Kakucho", thanks for pointing this out, I can explain.

When Izana heard Kisaki scream "DIE" he likely would have snapped back and saw Kakucho was about to get shot, Izana then in this state most likely had a surge of adrenaline and likely became stronger then even him at the start of the arc.
https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/adrenaline#:~:text=When you have a lot,called noradrenaline (or norepinephrine).
"When you have a lot of adrenaline in your blood, you don’t feel as much pain, so you can keep running or fighting, even if you are injured. It makes you stronger"
"you get a temporary boost of strength"
"A person exhibiting hysterical strength is reckoned to have lifted at least 3000lbs"
Proof that adrenaline is capable of making you stronger far past your normal capabilities, strength goes hand in hand with speed btw
"the stronger an athlete is for their body weight, the faster their times in short sprints will be"

Wait, so you are saying Izana during this feat is superior to himself during the fight against Mikey? Like this would make the feat scale to no one lol, not even Izana since it was only a particular moment where he could achieve that speed and normaly he can't, and no one would scale to it since no one matched that Izana.

Anyway the only new point I see here is the last one which litterally debunks the feat itself, everything is already been discussed here, here and here and the last blogs presenting a calc for this feat implying Izana > bullet have been rejected (mostly by DMUA I think).
Here the thread where CGMs accepted to remake TR calcs and decided to calc it as a blitz and not as Izana > bullet.

Oh since I just repeated ***** for the 5th time don't expect me to keep going with this discussion unless is absolutely necessary, ask staff about this and that's all. (unless you want this to have 8 pages in two days)

Also... I that hard to wait some months for the anime adaptation of the scene which might provide more context?

 

[Dinozxd]

First of all, I don't really agree with Hollow on how he interpreted the feat. The distance between Kisaki and Kakucho looks inconsistent between angsizing and the wide shot. Wide shots are mostly more accurate so I think It's better to do the pixel scaling on the wide shot.

That doesn't mean I disagree with the whole feat though.

Ok, so using this logic Izana pushed Kakucho away after/during the sound of the second bullet since it's drawn between the two panels right?

Umm... No? The scene plays out like this:

Kisaki shoots the first bullet, we see Izana shoving Kakucho to the side and Kisaki shooting the second bullet it the second panel and we see the third gunshot in the end. This suggests Izana outspeeding the first bullet and shoving Kakucho to the side at the same time Kisaki shoots the second. I pointed this out on my version of the calc but people clogged it up with unnecesary arguments...

Also, I like how you ignored this:

Wakui draws aim dodging/trigger outspeeding scenes like this. Izana saving Kakucho is drawn much different.

Also, the current accepted calculation for this feat still has to go through changes even if Izana just outspeeds Kisaki pulling the trigger as I calculated that timeframe here and It's faster than 0.029s.

So the current accepted calculation have problems either way.

in fact in the characters book we can see that Izana had to set a rule "The attacks from the king can't be avoided" because Kakucho was almost at his level,

I couldn't find something like that in the character books. You should have linked it. Even if it's true, Izana likely said this to assert his dominance on Kakucho as he is his "king" and Kakucho is his "servant". Servants shouldn't dodge attacks from their king (according to Izana). Character Books have close to zero power scaling value (Ran is literally showed to be faster than both Kakucho and Izana lol) and shouldn't be taken seriously on these kinds of debates.

Even if Kakucho was equal to Izana, He still wouldn't be able to dodge the bullet. We see Kakucho literally spitting blood after getting shot which means that his internal organs got damaged. Ran literally announces him as dead after this scene which implies that his wound was a near fatal injury. A near fatal injury would draw you back massively. Assuming Kakucho would move 1 meter to dodge the bullet and using my distance, we get:
1*(381/0.28) = 1360.7142857143 m/s (Supersonic+). A TR character being this fast in a severly injured state is impossible.

Are you aware people can actually in different ways? Tell me valid reason why if the author wants them to be faster than bullets he constantly make them die by bullets, what the reason? Is he dumb or something?

I'm not sure about taking these arguments seriously or not.

No one in the series gets outspeeded by any bullets directly. It always happens when saving someone or in a bad state. Only characters who use a gun in the whole series are Kisaki (who is a low tier), Takemichi without resol (a low tier), a Rokuhara Tandai goon (who is a no name delinquent), Izana (who was at a bad state of mind in that scene), Manilla Mikey (we don't know where he scales so he could be slower than a gun) and Bonten Mikey (same thing goes for this too). Chifuyu explains why characters get scared of guns here:

These statements just proves our point on characters calling guns dangerous and stuff. Chifuyu doesn't say that guns can outspeed them. They are scared of guns because it can actually kill them via piercing damage and that's why it's dangerous. This isn't like any delinquent manga you see where every character has a gun. This is a delinquent manga involving teenagers fighting other teenagers. The only characters who cross the line of killing someone in fights are characters like Kisaki, DI Mikey, Sanzu who are all depicted as villians. Hope I explained this well.

More less already presented,

Senju is stronger than Takemichi, litterally a peak human LS/street ap could have moved him.

Senju was confused about why Takemichi would save him so that's why.

Already presented,

Angry never blitzed Mucho since Mucho was, in fact, able to grab him, Angry just outskilled him (also because Mucho litterally reacts to him but yeah).ì
Nah piercing damage isn't a problem if you can see the shit approaching you in slow motion as the calc presentes since they are x4 time faster than the bullet, it's just an excuse, also people like Draken which scales to Hanma who has a combat speed almost on pair with base Mikey said guns are dangerous

I think I explained this stuff above.

Already presented,

So a tired Izana is like 5 times slower than himself at his 100%? like, what? It's too much difference, also it wouldn't still make sense he used a gun against a guy who is supposed to be x4 faster than the bullet, even if the bullet was actually faster than Izana.

Explained this as well.

 

[Zefra3011]

here's the scan, I'm not saying they are relative but kakucho isn't much weaker either, for the Ran stuff nothing contraddicts him having an higher travel speed than them as izana only shown an incredible speed in dashes and usually TR travel speed in general is bad.

I don't thing anything else actually rebunks that whenever a gun is used in TR someone (even god tiers) die, and yes, I'm kinda bored of these points which aren't anything new, if someone wants a staff input from someone who partecipated in the last threads/blogs of TR should contact DMUA and Dalesean, since as far as I'm aware are the most active in TR but not sure if they will reply, and I can understand why.

 

[Dinozxd]

here's the scan,

this proves that Kakucho has a higher potential than Izana but nothing else. Izana is just superior to Kakucho in the Tenjiku Arc.

for the Ran stuff nothing contraddicts him having an higher travel speed than them as izana only shown an incredible speed in dashes and usually TR travel speed in general is bad.

Higher travel speed means higher reaction speed too. There is no way Ran's reaction speed is higher than Kakucho.

I don't thing anything else actually rebunks that whenever a gun is used in TR someone (even god tiers) die,

I don't remember something like that happening other than Izana's case who was trying to save Kakucho. You are just just ignoring my arguments.

I'm kinda bored of these points which aren't anything new,

Well, your arguments aren't something new either. I at least brought something new to the table to discuss but I guess not lol

Looks like there aren't any counter arguments presented aganist my arguments.

 

[Dinozxd]

Also forgot to add these points but everyone ignores how Takemichi without resol dodged a bullet here and Mochizuki beat up a police officer who likely has a gun (this doesn't directly prove that he outsped a bullet, but it shows how TR mid tiers aren't scared of guns).