Transcending
He/Him- 1,998
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I can't rn, but I can by Saturday or Sunday.Would you be willing to update both of their VSB wiki pages accordingly if I unlock them?
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I can't rn, but I can by Saturday or Sunday.Would you be willing to update both of their VSB wiki pages accordingly if I unlock them?
Okay. Tell me here when I should unlock the Post-Flashpoint Lex Luthor and Batman pages.I can't rn, but I can by Saturday or Sunday.
Actually he's already Supergenius, Forger is just "likely Supergenius" though.The Monitor should scale from the World Forger's supergenius intelligence though
@Antvasima; Would these count for anything?And, idk if this means much but in the recent Failsafe arc Batman got a few good feats, He has batarangs made of New Genesis steel and trying to defeat Failsafe, a creation by his subconscious, by time travel, would dangerously damage the timeline.
This page also needs to be edited btw.Ah. The Forger should have a straight Supergenius rating.
I am afraid that it is not sufficient for a Supergenius rating.@Antvasima; Would these count for anything?
I can edit now. But on the topic of Forger, I was thinking about giving Perpetua her old ratings? I checked the downgrade thread and the OP didn't address the reasons for the previous ratings(scaling above the Source Wall). Additionally, she destroyed Low 1-C realms like New Genesis and Apokolips so I think 2-A is lowballing her. OP also didn't address the reasons for the Ultra-Monitor's upgrade, so I think he should retain his tierings too. Lastly, in Perpetua's profile, the scans for her controlling Hypertime doesn't work.Okay. Tell me here when I should unlock the Post-Flashpoint Lex Luthor and Batman pages.
I will begin by unlocking the Post-Flashpoint Batman, Luthor, and World Forger pages. I do not think that this is the right place to make snap decidåsions about controversial tier changes.I can edit now. But on the topic of Forger, I was thinking about giving Perpetua her old ratings? I checked the downgrade thread and the OP didn't address the reasons for the previous ratings(scaling above the Source Wall). Additionally, she destroyed Low 1-C realms like New Genesis and Apokolips so I think 2-A is lowballing her. OP also didn't address the reasons for the Ultra-Monitor's upgrade, so I think he should retain his tierings too. Lastly, in Perpetua's profile, the scans for her controlling Hypertime doesn't work.
Yes she did
I agree that Batman should have Supergenius ratingFirstly, I will note that BWL has outsmarted Lex before, for example, when he got captured by Lex, that was actually all a part of his plan so that he can replace Lex as Perpetua's right-hand man. Another incident of BWL outsmarting Lex is this. For this incident, it was even explicitly stated things didn't go according to Luthor's plans.
But I actually think Batman can be argued to be as intelligent as the Batman Who Laughs. For starters, Batman was stated to be able to think like BWL. Secondly, when Batman was jokerizing himself, he was consistently stated to be the same as BWL. Batman also outsmarted BWL and beat him. Additionally, BWL and Batman have the same voice and DNA, and they are identical on a cellular level. Here Batman explains how BWL is Batman himself, with the only difference being a lack of rules and morals. Here BWL confirms that he and Batman are equals and that he is just Batman when he stops holding back, forgets about all his morals. Here BWL says he has Batman's mind(intelligence) and Joker's insanity, making him an apex predator. This matches what Scott Snyder told us in interviews. Scott Snyder has stated that Batman without morals is an Apex Predator, and BWL is just that, Batman without morals. And Jock, the artist for BWL has stated that the Batman Who Laughs is Batman.
There are more stuff but the point is that Batman and BWL are equally intelligent. This was the point of the Metal era, to show how much Batman holds back and what would happen if Batman decides to simply, stop doing so. Batman is supposed to be able to do everything BWL can, that was certainly the author's intent. Batman simply has worse feats because he holds back, he has limits and he wouldn't break them, but if he did, he can do all of this. And, idk if this means much but in the recent Failsafe arc Batman got a few good feats, He has batarangs made of New Genesis steel and trying to defeat Failsafe, a creation by his subconscious, by time travel, would dangerously damage the timeline.
In the end, we could scale Batman to BWL and Lex to Batman.
is BWL not stating/implying that he and Batman are equally intelligent not enough?Well, all of that makes sense from a writer perspective, but from an in-story perspective both Batman and Lex Luthor just do not have any feats that remotely approach a tier 2 or higher freely reality-warping scale that is required for Supergenius ratings. I could see tbem get "At least Extraordinary Genius (list of their own feats), potentially Supergenius (by scaling to TBWL)".
Are you referring to JL #35?Yes she did
Okay, we can discuss them during or after the splitI will begin by unlocking the Post-Flashpoint Batman, Luthor, and World Forger pages. I do not think that this is the right place to make snap decidåsions about controversial tier changes.
If we do go with a full Supergenius rating I think it would be important to note he only uses that level of intelligence when bloodlusted. So something like-is BWL not stating/implying that he and Batman are equally intelligent not enough?
Extraordinary genius, Supergenius without morals
They are still locked? For Batman and Lex, we might need more discussion going by what @Swerzye29038 stated. I think we can edit BWL(Physics Manip), Forger, and Spectre(scaling to Kent Nelson and not Nabu) in the meantime.I will begin by unlocking the Post-Flashpoint Batman, Luthor, and World Forger pages.
No, it is not. For example, Moon Girl is officially stated to be smarter than Reed Richards and Doctor Doom, but she has no actual feats remotely approaching their scale as far as I am aware, so it is likely a claim without substance.is BWL not stating/implying that he and Batman are equally intelligent not enough?
I unlocked the pages that were not already unlocked earlier. If you cannot edit them anyway, your wiki account is likely either not old enough or does not have a confirmed email address.They are still locked? For Batman and Lex, we might need more discussion going by what @Swerzye29038 stated. I think we can edit BWL(Physics Manip), Forger, and Spectre(scaling to Kent Nelson and not Nabu) in the meantime.
BWL is technically still batman, just his an evil nightmare version from the dark multiverse but you're right on batman not having feats to that level perphaps a possibly or likely since they are technically the same character.No, it is not. For example, Moon Girl is officially stated to be smarter than Reed Richards and Doctor Doom, but she has no actual feats remotely approaching their scale as far as I am aware, so it is likely a claim without substance.
I edited Lex, Forger, and BatmanI unlocked the pages that were not already unlocked earlier. If you cannot edit them anyway, your wiki account is likely either not old enough or does not have a confirmed email address.
Where did it say Magic powered the Sphere? To the contrary, it said the Sphere is the source of magic.
To support my point even more, SOG was stated here to sustain magic, not the other way aroundHe also said Magic would die.
Where is it stated he was using the Otherkind to assist in his task? He just says he and the other Lords would destroy the Sphere when they eat Earth's magic.
No? There are a million different reasons for him to lure the Otherkind.
Now we need to-What currently needs to be done here?
Also, thank you for helping out with the editing. I locked the pages in question earlier.
3: Discuss if BWL's prep tier can be upgraded to Tier 2
4: Discuss if the destroying the Sphere of the Gods feat makes Nabu Low 1-C
This seems reasonable, as long as physics manipulation is only for his optional equipment.Now we need to-
1: Edit BWL for Physics Manipulation
2: Change Spectre's superior to Nabu to superior to Kent Nelson
3: Discuss if BWL's prep tier can be upgraded to Tier 2
I do not know. It may be an inconsistency.4: Discuss if the destroying the Sphere of the Gods feat makes Nabu Low 1-C
Okay. Would somebody experienced here be willing to apply it please?I'm fine with physics manipulation.
Okay. Never mind about that then.I do not agree with changing Spectre's justification as there are multiple instances where he is directly indicated to be superior to Nabu.
Well, I was thinking of scaling him from The Spectre, but he likely used hax and a specific weakness, as Batmen usually do.I do not agree with upgrading BWL's prep tier because as you indicated Ant, Monitor's power level in his weakened state is unclear.
Yes, agreed. Both regarding the revised tiering and that we would need a new character profile page for the modern Doctor Fate.As for the Sphere, it's worth pointing out that we only have a page for Classic Fate, not modern Fate. However in the context of the story I am not persuaded that it confers Low 1-C and the potential scaling chains are ridiculous. I think the matter should probably wait either way, since the tiering of the Sphere in that cosmology is soon to be discussed.
Tynion also clarified that the Dark Multiverse Spectre was not directly comparable to the real Spectre.Well, I was thinking of scaling him from The Spectre, but he likely used hax and a specific weakness, as Batmen usually do.
I can do that.Would somebody experienced here be willing to apply it please?
Okay. Never mind then. I think that only the physics manipulation should be applied then. The rest of this discussion can end here.Tynion also clarified that the Dark Multiverse Spectre was not directly comparable to the real Spectre.
Thank you for helping out.I can do that.
What about Powers and Abilities?This seems reasonable, as long as physics manipulation is only for his optional equipment.
There's no evidence actually, please don't listen to him blindly, and read my essay. Ignoring the fact he provided no evidence Jim Corrigan Spectre is superior to Nabu, I addressed all his evidence for Unbound Spectre being vastly superior to Nabu. The only real evidence for Unbound Spectre>Nabu by a significant amount is the scan from Spectre(1998), but even then, Nabu actually survived Spectre, even though it took everything out of him. In fact, Deagon himself admitted Spectre isn't infinitely superior, so they would have the same tier.Okay. Never mind about that then.
Wiki is acting worse than it usually is on phone for some reason, so I am only being able to quote a single word. But the sentence the word is from is enough.supports
He used magic.Well, I was thinking of scaling him from The Spectre, but he likely used hax and a specific weakness, as Batmen usually do.
He did, but BWL confirmed Dark Multiverse Spectre was above the Phantom Stranger, and we know the PS is relative to Spectre from New 52's PS run. So the difference in power is minimal.Tynion also clarified that the Dark Multiverse Spectre was not directly comparable to the real Spectre.
I have read most of the stories featuring Post-Flashpoint Fate and there's not really much for a good tier, he seems to be in the same tier as Heralds. Nabu has good feats naturally, but Classic Fate's page's Powers and Abilities section is very bad. I think that should be revised, if no one else is willing, I am reading some Fate related comics right now and I will make a CRT a few months or years later.would
I do not accept.Okay. Never mind then. I think that only the physics manipulation should be applied then. The rest of this discussion can end here.