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Crisis Cosmology: Scaling Characters

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Elizio33

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This thread is very simple, nothing too complicated or too long. Since the Crisis Cosmology thread was accepted and applied to the DC Cosmology blog, the time has come to scale the characters from the Crisis Cosmology.

Here's how characters scaling to the Crisis Cosmology should be:
  • Nabu, Mordru, Lords of Orders/Chaos have notable feats adhering to Low 1-C for Nabu, with the help of the Lords of Order, posed a threat to the Sphere of Gods and are able to ascend to the realms of the Sphere of Gods using beliefs. Mordru also played a key role to the defeat of the Upside-Down Man.
  • The New Gods would be Low 1-C for sharing a similar nature to the Sphere of the Gods which is qualitatively superior to the material world.
  • The Endless in this cosmology should be Low 1-C for existing in the Sphere of the Gods but seems to be limited to their realms contrary to Vertigo's continuity.
  • Empty Hand does not have a profiles yet but would be Low 1-C for fighting Darkseid in his true form, with the former considering himself more than his equal.
  • Pariah does not have a profile yet but would be Low 1-C, possibly High 1-C via his connection to the power of the Great Darkness for being superior to Darkseid and Empty Hand and affecting the Divine Continuum with the darkness.
  • Hecate and the Upside-Down Man would be Low 1-C for scaling to each other and Hecate is more powerful than all gods. (See the note below...)
  • Monitors, Mandrakk, Thought Robot would be 1-C for being qualitatively superior to Comic Book Limbo which is positioned above the Sphere of the Gods on the map of the multiverse without transcending it.
  • Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite would be High 1-C for sharing a similar nature as the Fifth Dimension which exists and flows all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum.
  • Monitor, Anti-Monitor, World Forger would be High 1-C in the Sixth Dimension for having a superior stature than all entities inhabiting the multiverse, including those who inhabit the Fifth Dimension.
  • The Ultra-Monitor would be High 1-C for being more powerful than the Monitor Brothers ever were.
  • Perpetua would be Varies, up to High 1-C with Crisis Energy since her power varies depending on how much Crisis Energy she has within her and she is above the Ultra-Monitor whose power was considered by the Anti-Monitor to be "unlike anything he felt before" and her fight against the Darkest Knight raged across all facets of reality. (See the note below...)
  • Darkest Knight would be High 1-C, likely 1-B for defeating and killing Perpetua using fragments of the Source Wall and would have killed the Hands.
  • The Hands would be 1-B for transcending everything on the main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension.
  • The Light of Creation (Source/Overvoid/Presence) would be 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything and everyone in the Crisis Cosmology.
  • The Great Darkness would be 1-B for preceeding and equaling the Light of Creation in power.
Note that I'm not using the feat of the Upside-Down Man infecting the Other Place with "his reality" for the simple reason that Swamp Thing was able to do the same thing with the Other Place. This is more of a battle of belief and magic than an actual battle of raw power, so it does not adhere to Tier 1-C.

Although Perpetua has described her power as only being able to destroy one universe at a time, which has been clearly demonstrated throughout the story, her position and scaling in the cosmology gives her a higher tier, without forgetting that she possesses all the dark forces of creation. She said she regained the power she had before her imprisonment, but Snyder said her stature had diminished since her imprisonment and so she would not adhere to a Tier 1-B like the rest of the Hands, unless a second key is made.

Lower beings in the cosmology since as Barbatos and the in-multiverse Monitor Brothers would be 2-C. Barbatos, despite threatening the Dreaming via the side effects of bringing the "horrors" of the Dark Multiverse into the main DC Multiverse, was affecting the 52 universes of the Orrery with his scream which would've resulted to them being swallowed up by the Dark Multiverse. In-multiverse Monitors stay 4-B.

Darkseid (Godhead)

Attack Potency
: Low Complex Multiverse level (Exists in the platonic and archetypal Sphere of the Gods beyond the Orrery of Worlds as a living idea, with all evil in the Multiverse consolidating into him as its focal point. With his power, Darkseid, encompassed the flimsy white fabric behind reality where unfold universal creation and destruction and where Psycho Pirate watches reality. Killed the Quintessence using his Omega Beams)

Empty Hand

Attack Potency
: Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated to be more than the equivalent of Darkseid and fought against his true form, surpassing him at one point. Command the fifth-dimensional Gentry and created them from the remains of the Pre-Crisis Multiverse)

Pariah (Dark Crisis)

Attack Potency
: Varies (During the Dark Crisis, Pariah was using his machines to harness a fraction of the true power of the Great Darkness he controlled) Low Complex Multiverse level (Stated by Dr. Multiverse to be more powerful than Darkseid or Empty Hand and enslaved them both using his darkness) to High Complex Multiverse level (Pariah's darkness besieged the infinite Multiverses and caused major changes in the space aspect of the Divine Continuum)

Hecate

Attack Potency
: Low Complex Multiverse level (Hecate is vastly superior to Nabu and the Lords of Order. With one-fifth of Hecate's power, Wonder Woman was considered more powerful than any god who ever walked the Earth and threatened to rewrite the rules of magic and change them into Hecate's language. Manitou Dawn could have destroyed Rama Kushna with a facet of Hecate's power, and Hecate said that Kama Kushina's power was nothing compared to hers)

The Upside-Down Man

Attack Potency
: Low Complex Multiverse level (Is described as Hecate's dark double, the yang to her yin and the "upside-down" of her power. If Hecate's magic was considered all the incredible possibilities, Upside Down Man's magic would be all the terrible possibilities. A piece of the Great Darkness has been described as a sliver of the Upside Down Man's power)

Daniel Hall (Dream of the Endless)

Attack Potency
: High Complex Multiverse level (Should be superior to Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite, as the ruler of the Dreaming, a place of imagination and story within the Sphere of the Gods, an archetypal and platonic world outside the Orrery of Worlds. A section of the Dreaming contains Lucien's library which contains all the stories of the Dark Multiverse and whose destruction could result in the destruction of the Dreaming and the Multiverse)

Barbatos

Attack Potency
: Low Multiverse level (Was responsible for killing the World Forger in the Dark Multiverse. As the Dragon of the Forge, Barbatos has destroyed billions of failed universes. Threatened to disrupt the vibrational frequencies of the fifty-two universes of the Orrery with his scream, distorting their laws of physics, which would've resulted to them being swallowed by the Dark Multiverse)

Thought Robot

Attack Potency
: Complex Multiverse level (From his perspective, Comic Book Limbo appeared like an infinitesimal disk. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "good" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mandrakk

Attack Potency
: Complex Multiverse level (The most powerful of the Monitor race. Superior to the Thought Robot and wounded it beyond repair. Exists in the archetypal Monitor world of Nil as pure thought, the "bad" side of every conceptual dichotomy)

Mister Mxyzptlk

Attack Potency
: High Complex Multiverse level (Exists as an "imaginary-thought construct" and is the most powerful imp inhabiting the Fifth Dimension, an imaginary "blood of the multiverse" existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the DC Multiverse at the exception of the Sixth Dimension and the Source Wall Surpasses the Fourth Dimension and Hypertime)

World Forger/Monitor/Anti-Monitor (Sixth Dimension)

Attack Potency
: High Complex Multiverse level (The Brothers Three surpasses everything in the DC Multiverse, being four of the most powerful few beings and residing in the Sixth Dimension, the highest plane and final realm of existence before reaching the greater Omniverse outside of the Source Wall)

Perpetua

Attack Potency
: Varies (Perpetua's power varies depending on how much Crisis Energy she has within her, ranging from creating and destroying planets and galaxies around her to cracking space-time through her actions), up to High Complex Multiverse level (Superior to the Ultra-Monitor whose power was considered by Mobius to be "unlike anything he'd felt before" and her rise in power had been felt anywhere across the Multiverse and the Dark Multiverse. Her fight against the Darkest Knight was raging across all facets of reality and was collapsing existence according to the Chronicler who had stated that the stories of Multiverse were tearing apart because of them)

The Hands

Attack Potency
: Hyperverse level (The Hands transcend and surpass anything and anyone in existence, being the "rulers" of the greater Omniverse beyond the Source Wall and judge the Multiverses in the "end of the void". Perpetua feared that if her siblings, the Hands, came to discover her actions, they would come for her and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)

The Light of Creation should have a profile since Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Presence are aspects or potentially emanations of this same whole but interpreted differently. Or at least a key named; "The Light of Creation (Crisis Cosmology)" on the following profiles: Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Presence.

Attack Potency: Hyperverse level (Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Presence are depicted as aspects of this same intangible whole. From its lights was born the entire DC Omniverse and is described as the "first star" born in defiance of the Great Darkness, harming the Great Darkness as the Light of Creation grew)

The Great Darkness (Crisis Cosmology)

Attack Potency
: Hyperverse level (Is described as the single black infinitude from which the Light of Creation was born in defiance of what it is. A fraction of the true power of the Great Darkness could threaten to destroy the Omniverse and bring everything back to nothing)
 
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There’s just something in particular I want to address; the Anti-Monitor absorbing the energies of the Antimatter Universe. This feat is currently considered to be 2-A, but the DC Cosmology blog said that any feats of creation or destruction at level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degrees of Low 2-C than regular universes. So here is.
 
Seems fine.

Just curious, what will Godhead Darkseid's new tier be?
Low 1-C based on him sharing a similar nature as the Sphere of the Gods that transcends the Orrery, like the rest of the New Gods.
 
I agree with mostly everything. I would like to point out that Death of the Endless still operates in the void beyond the source wall. Just like her vertigo counterpart, she was referenced to be at the end of everything and made Mister E walk back through time in the JLD 2021 Annual. This is a reference to the Books of Magic comic where Mister E tried to kill Timothy Hunter and they met Death at the end of everything as she claims her brother Destiny.

Death doesn't actually appear in the annual comic, only being referred to as a "fundamental law of the cosmos", but Mister E is referring to that event. As he continued telling the JLD team what happened, it's shown that he was beyond the source wall as he walked back through time from the end of everything. He even cites the omniverse as he comes across the broken source wall pieces. So, Death operates beyond the source wall, even in DC. I don't know what tier that would give her, but she still seems to be the exception and functions beyond the wall. That's all I had to mention though.
 
There's also this particular feat of Darkseid, able to seemingly encompass the flimsy white fabric behind reality where the creation and destruction of universes takes place and where Psycho Pirate looks at reality from the "outside".

The problem with this feat is that Darkseid had put things into perspective for Psycho Pirate who believed himself to be outside of everything by bringing him to Earth-Omega which was described as being the farthest universe in the multiverse. I think this "flimsy white fabric behind reality" should be ranked as Unknown since on the one hand it was said to be outside of reality and on the other hand Earth-Omega was implied to be outside of it, and Earth-Omega has been described as the "Farthest Earth". I think this could be used for the Attack Potency of True Form Darkseid instead of his "feat" of collapsing the Orrery via the side effects of collapsing the space-time continuum around Earth Prime's universe.

What do you think?
 
I agree with mostly everything. I would like to point out that Death of the Endless still operates in the void beyond the source wall. Just like her vertigo counterpart, she was referenced to be at the end of everything and made Mister E walk back through time in the JLD 2021 Annual. This is a reference to the Books of Magic comic where Mister E tried to kill Timothy Hunter and they met Death at the end of everything as she claims her brother Destiny.

Death doesn't actually appear in the annual comic, only being referred to as a "fundamental law of the cosmos", but Mister E is referring to that event. As he continued telling the JLD team what happened, it's shown that he was beyond the source wall as he walked back through time from the end of everything. He even cites the omniverse as he comes across the broken source wall pieces. So, Death operates beyond the source wall, even in DC. I don't know what tier that would give her, but she still seems to be the exception and functions beyond the wall. That's all I had to mention though.
Okay so the Endless would be either High 1-C or 1-B then?
 
Okay so the Endless would be either High 1-C or 1-B then?
I will leave that to your judgement. We only know for sure that Death of the Endless operates that high with possibly Destiny, since she claims him there in the comic it's referencing. I suppose it can be treated like it is in the Vertigo Cosmology. Where the older siblings scale higher than the younger. Those would be Destiny, Death and possibly Dream.
 
I am quite confused about The Great Darkness and The Endless, will the tiering in the crisis cosmology be applied to their profile? considering they will also get higher tiering in spiritual cosmology in future. So whether the solution to split the keys on their profiles according to cosmology?.
 
I am quite confused about The Great Darkness and The Endless, will the tiering in the crisis cosmology be applied to their profile? considering they will also get higher tiering in spiritual cosmology in future. So whether the solution to split the keys on their profiles according to cosmology?.
Splitting keys
 
Shouldn't Destiny of the Endless scale to the entire cosmology? Since his book has the entire multiverse and all
I think Morrison said that the image of Destiny of the Endless in the map of the multiverse was more metaphorical than anything else.
 
There's also this particular feat of Darkseid, able to seemingly encompass the flimsy white fabric behind reality where the creation and destruction of universes takes place and where Psycho Pirate looks at reality from the "outside".

The problem with this feat is that Darkseid had put things into perspective for Psycho Pirate who believed himself to be outside of everything by bringing him to Earth-Omega which was described as being the farthest universe in the multiverse. I think this "flimsy white fabric behind reality" should be ranked as Unknown since on the one hand it was said to be outside of reality and on the other hand Earth-Omega was implied to be outside of it, and Earth-Omega has been described as the "Farthest Earth". I think this could be used for the Attack Potency of True Form Darkseid instead of his "feat" of collapsing the Orrery via the side effects of collapsing the space-time continuum around Earth Prime's universe.

What do you think?
This is fine.
 
There’s just something in particular I want to address; the Anti-Monitor absorbing the energies of the Antimatter Universe. This feat is currently considered to be 2-A, but the DC Cosmology blog said that any feats of creation or destruction at level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degrees of Low 2-C than regular universes. So here is.
There's also this particular feat of Darkseid, able to seemingly encompass the flimsy white fabric behind reality where the creation and destruction of universes takes place and where Psycho Pirate looks at reality from the "outside".

The problem with this feat is that Darkseid had put things into perspective for Psycho Pirate who believed himself to be outside of everything by bringing him to Earth-Omega which was described as being the farthest universe in the multiverse. I think this "flimsy white fabric behind reality" should be ranked as Unknown since on the one hand it was said to be outside of reality and on the other hand Earth-Omega was implied to be outside of it, and Earth-Omega has been described as the "Farthest Earth". I think this could be used for the Attack Potency of True Form Darkseid instead of his "feat" of collapsing the Orrery via the side effects of collapsing the space-time continuum around Earth Prime's universe.

What do you think?
Thoughts ? (@Williams249 thanks for your answer 😉)
 
Hmm. In Vertigo yes, but in other DC stories, like Morrison's, Snyder's, etc., I don't know.
I think Destiny should be scaled above the map multiverse as stated by Rian Hughes.

"Destiny is just metaphorically above everything, recording. That he overlaps certain areas is less important"

Although he states that Destiny is only metaphorical, the context of his answer still assumes that the book contains content that covers the map multiverse. But whatever that's, I'll leave it up to you.
 
I think Destiny should be scaled above the map multiverse as stated by Rian Hughes.

"Destiny is just metaphorically above everything, recording. That he overlaps certain areas is less important"

Although he states that Destiny is only metaphorical, the context of his answer still assumes that the book contains content that covers the map multiverse. But whatever that's, I'll leave it up to you.
Hmm. This is a tricky one since Rian Hughes has said that Destiny is "metaphorically above everything, recording." I think that in lack of a better option, we should leave the Endless scaling to the Sphere of the Gods for now.
 
Hmm. This is a tricky one since Rian Hughes has said that Destiny is "metaphorically above everything, recording." I think that in lack of a better option, we should leave the Endless scaling to the Sphere of the Gods for now.
Yep you're right that's tricky considering Destiny scaled above the map multiverse based on comic the Sandman overture (which has now been separated).
 
Hmm. This is a tricky one since Rian Hughes has said that Destiny is "metaphorically above everything, recording." I think that in lack of a better option, we should leave the Endless scaling to the Sphere of the Gods for now.
I mean, for Endless it's kind of obvious they're not really limited to just their realms where they're located. They've still made very notable appearances outside of Vertigo, and it's clear that their influence extends far beyond the Sphere of Gods, considering they represent their concepts creation-wide and Death is the last thing that exists
 
From what the Metal series proposed, it seems more like the Source is the end.

Johnathan Steward has said previously there was the Source at the beginning. One of the agents of the Source, the Raptor, had said all would be judged by the Source as a final judgment which connects with biblical ideas of Final Judgement after Revelation and the beginning of the Rapture.
 
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