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Who told you its finished?
The new additions haven't even been put in yet.
Base Buso Luffy's durability isn't High 6-C as of Udon Prison.
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One Piece: Early Post-Timeskip and God Tiers AP Revision
- Thread starter GodlyCharmander
- Start date
- Status
The new additions haven't even been put in yet.
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Yeah I mean a lot of mid-high tier people need tier changes.
After the new revisions, the Cracker Biscuit soldiers will be High 6-C due to being above G3, and Base Luffy with Buso tanked hits from the Biscuit soldiers, as is stated in the sandbox and Luffy's profile.
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I don't know about that to be honest. I think that the durability of the Biscuit soldier should be superior to Gear 3, but when the Biscuit soldier did that shield bash which knocked Luffy backwards, it looked like he did that after Luffy's attack had finished his punch - in other words, when Luffy wasn't outputting any more force.
So yes the Biscuit soldier tanked the force, and he knocked Luffy back, but he didn't overpower the AP of the Gear 3 punch while the punch was happening. So the Biscuit soldiers own AP doesn't have to be superior to Gear 3, and wasn't hitting Luffy with above Gear 3 level attacks.
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He overpowered the Hawk Gatling, so he'll still be High 6-C regardless
Also
Also
Don't use the profiles and sandbox as evidence. Use the manga
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This sounds like a far-fetched nitpick, characters in fiction can keep putting more force in their punches even if they already connected.
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Will do.
In the top left of the first panel he blocks via buso on his arm, and in the 2nd panel he clearly uses buso to stop a stab at his gut, considering that his chest is black when it is stabbed at.
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Eh, I wouldn't really call that a nitpick, but as KT pointed out, the Hawk Gatling would be High 6-C anyway.
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@GodlyCharmander Do I still have permission to revise the sandbox?
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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- Thread starter
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Absolutely, you will always have, I trust you. Establish this as a standard for anything OP-related I do.
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Genuinely appreciate that
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@KingTempest and @GodlyCharmander have the best bromance on this forum, I swear.
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Ngl we might have to make a WCI key for early Luffy. Damage has been telling me but I didn't think it was necessary. Now it is.
He has feats of scaling that pretty much shit on Dressrosa's.
His base countered a hit from a single armed Cracker Soldiers' hand, and he pretty blatantly hurt the Biscuit soldier's arm with a kick.
With that in mind, he then took a hit from the Cracker Soldier. With Busoshoku, he blocked a hit from the Biscuit soldier's 3 arms, then he blocked another hit in his chest.
This alone shows that his base is significantly superior than Dressrosa, where he struggled against the likes of Bellamy, Doflamingo, etc.
And with this being said, I'm gonna change a lot of values.
So this is how Luffy's keys will be.
His values.
Dressrosa Luffy
Zou - 1st Kata fight
2nd Kata fight
Now when it comes to the Monsters' Scaling, they will all scale above 39.8 GT
They scale above the fodder patrol Biscuit Soldiers, who only have 1 arm each side. That backscales from 1/3rd the result, so where base Luffy goes to 39.8 GT.
@SnookB @Eminiteable @GodlyCharmander @Damage3245 @Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin, any opinions, agreeals, disagreeals, anything?
He has feats of scaling that pretty much shit on Dressrosa's.
His base countered a hit from a single armed Cracker Soldiers' hand, and he pretty blatantly hurt the Biscuit soldier's arm with a kick.
With that in mind, he then took a hit from the Cracker Soldier. With Busoshoku, he blocked a hit from the Biscuit soldier's 3 arms, then he blocked another hit in his chest.
This alone shows that his base is significantly superior than Dressrosa, where he struggled against the likes of Bellamy, Doflamingo, etc.
And with this being said, I'm gonna change a lot of values.
So this is how Luffy's keys will be.
Attack Potency: Island level (Comparable to those who can harm him, thus, shouldn't be too far behind his Gear 2nd. Fought and overpowered Overdosed Hody, who in this state is 32x stronger than people half of the level of Oars. Capable of easily harming Caesar Clown), higher with Gear 2nd (Since his Jet Gatling destroyed Doffy's Black Knight, his regular AP should be superior to the durability of a single string), Island level+ with Gear 3rd (Far stronger than Gear 2nd. One-shot Monster Hody, who is 4x stronger than in his Overdosed state. One shot Surume, and dealt more damage to him than DJ Sanji and 3 of Franky's missiles, when 1 missile could badly injure Senor Pink), Large Island level with Jet Gatling (Completely destroyed Doflamingo's Black Knight which formed the Birdcage, which is this durable), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Fought and overwhelmed Doflamingo. Just with a headbutt, he was capable of breaking 13 of Doflamingo's awakened strings), Large Island level with Strongest Attacks (One-shot Doflamingo with King Kong Gun and broke 33 of his strings. Superior to his Leo Bazooka, which is twice as strong as his regular attacks)
Island level (Capable of fighting a regular 1 armed Biscuit Soldier, who should be 1/3rd the Biscuit Soldier that had 3 arms and overpowered his Hawk Gatling), higher with Gear 2nd (Stronger than before), Large Island level with Jet Gatling or Gear 3rd (Katakuri implied that his Elephant Gun was stronger than a Hawk Gatling, which is superior to a Jet Gatling. Slightly pushed back a Biscuit Soldier who overpowered his Hawk Gatling), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (4x stronger than his compressed attacks, which matched a Biscuit Soldier who is superior to his Gear 3rd and Hawk Gatling. Far stronger than Katakuri, and managed to easily overpower him prior to using his awakening), far higher with Strongest Attacks (At least 4x stronger than Gear 3rd. His Gear 4th: Tankman one-shot Charlotte Cracker and his Biscuit Soldiers)
Island level (Stronger than before), higher with Gear 2nd, Large Island level with Gear 4th: Snakeman (Stronger than Gear 2nd. Went blow for blow with Katakuri) or with Gear 3rd (Clashed evenly with Awakened Katakuri, who could harm his Gear 4th: Boundman state from earlier), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Far stronger than Gear 3rd), far higher with Strongest Attacks (At least 4x stronger than Gear 3rd)
Striking Strength: Island Class, higher with Gear 2nd, Island Class+ with Gear 3rd, Large Island Class with Jet Gatling, higher with Gear 4th: Boundman, Large Island Class+ with Strongest Attacks
Island level, higher with Gear 2nd, Large Island level with Jet Gatling or Gear 3rd, higher with Gear 4th: Boundman, Large Island Class+ with Strongest Attacks
Island level, higher with Gear 2nd, Large Island level with Gear 4th: Snakeman or with Gear 3rd, higher with Gear 4th: Boundman, Large Island Class+ with Strongest Attacks
Durability: Island level (Can take hits from Jinbe), Large Island level with Busōshoku Haki (While weakened, he could block multiple stabs from Doflamingo aimed at his chest. Blocked attacks from Doflamingo's strings with his Octopus Gatling), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Comparable to his own Attack Potency. Withstood the impact of Doflamingo's “God-Thread”), far higher with Gear 4th: Tankman (Far more durable than Gear 4th: Boundman)
Island level (Can take hits from a 1 armed Biscuit Soldier), Large Island level with Busōshoku Haki (Could take attacks from Charlotte Cracker's 3 armed Biscuit Soldiers), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Comparable to his own Attack Potency. Withstood the impact of Doflamingo's “God-Thread”), far higher with Gear 4th: Tankman (Far more durable than Gear 4th: Boundman)
Island level (More durable than his previous base state), Large Island level with Busōshoku Haki (It makes his body significantly sturdier. Blocked several attacks from Katakuri, and handled them much better than he did before), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Far more sturdier than before)
Island level (Capable of fighting a regular 1 armed Biscuit Soldier, who should be 1/3rd the Biscuit Soldier that had 3 arms and overpowered his Hawk Gatling), higher with Gear 2nd (Stronger than before), Large Island level with Jet Gatling or Gear 3rd (Katakuri implied that his Elephant Gun was stronger than a Hawk Gatling, which is superior to a Jet Gatling. Slightly pushed back a Biscuit Soldier who overpowered his Hawk Gatling), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (4x stronger than his compressed attacks, which matched a Biscuit Soldier who is superior to his Gear 3rd and Hawk Gatling. Far stronger than Katakuri, and managed to easily overpower him prior to using his awakening), far higher with Strongest Attacks (At least 4x stronger than Gear 3rd. His Gear 4th: Tankman one-shot Charlotte Cracker and his Biscuit Soldiers)
Island level (Stronger than before), higher with Gear 2nd, Large Island level with Gear 4th: Snakeman (Stronger than Gear 2nd. Went blow for blow with Katakuri) or with Gear 3rd (Clashed evenly with Awakened Katakuri, who could harm his Gear 4th: Boundman state from earlier), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Far stronger than Gear 3rd), far higher with Strongest Attacks (At least 4x stronger than Gear 3rd)
Striking Strength: Island Class, higher with Gear 2nd, Island Class+ with Gear 3rd, Large Island Class with Jet Gatling, higher with Gear 4th: Boundman, Large Island Class+ with Strongest Attacks
Island level, higher with Gear 2nd, Large Island level with Jet Gatling or Gear 3rd, higher with Gear 4th: Boundman, Large Island Class+ with Strongest Attacks
Island level, higher with Gear 2nd, Large Island level with Gear 4th: Snakeman or with Gear 3rd, higher with Gear 4th: Boundman, Large Island Class+ with Strongest Attacks
Durability: Island level (Can take hits from Jinbe), Large Island level with Busōshoku Haki (While weakened, he could block multiple stabs from Doflamingo aimed at his chest. Blocked attacks from Doflamingo's strings with his Octopus Gatling), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Comparable to his own Attack Potency. Withstood the impact of Doflamingo's “God-Thread”), far higher with Gear 4th: Tankman (Far more durable than Gear 4th: Boundman)
Island level (Can take hits from a 1 armed Biscuit Soldier), Large Island level with Busōshoku Haki (Could take attacks from Charlotte Cracker's 3 armed Biscuit Soldiers), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Comparable to his own Attack Potency. Withstood the impact of Doflamingo's “God-Thread”), far higher with Gear 4th: Tankman (Far more durable than Gear 4th: Boundman)
Island level (More durable than his previous base state), Large Island level with Busōshoku Haki (It makes his body significantly sturdier. Blocked several attacks from Katakuri, and handled them much better than he did before), higher with Gear 4th: Boundman (Far more sturdier than before)
His values.
Dressrosa Luffy
Base: 6.633 GT (He is capable of easily harming Caesar Clown, who, while already drastically injured from Luffy's Gear 3rd attack, withstood an attack from Nami split between 3 people)
Gear 2nd: 19.9 GT (Scales above the durability of a single string)
Gear 3rd: 59.7 GT (One shot the Kraken, and dealt more damage to it than the 3 missiles from Franky, which scale relative to G2nd through a different scaling chain. The Kraken doesn't scale to this value, but Luffy himself does. If people want the Kraken to scale, let me know)
Gear 4th: 258.7 GT (Broke 13 strings)
Leo Bazooka: 517.4 GT (Twice as strong as Gear 4th)
King Kong Gun: 656.7 GT (Broke 33 strings)
Gear 2nd: 19.9 GT (Scales above the durability of a single string)
Gear 3rd: 59.7 GT (One shot the Kraken, and dealt more damage to it than the 3 missiles from Franky, which scale relative to G2nd through a different scaling chain. The Kraken doesn't scale to this value, but Luffy himself does. If people want the Kraken to scale, let me know)
Gear 4th: 258.7 GT (Broke 13 strings)
Leo Bazooka: 517.4 GT (Twice as strong as Gear 4th)
King Kong Gun: 656.7 GT (Broke 33 strings)
Zou - 1st Kata fight
Base: 39.8 GT (Can contest with a single limbed Biscuit Soldier, who's 1/3rd as strong as the one who overpowered the Hawk Gatling)
Gear 2nd: >39.8 GT (Superior to his base)
Gear 3rd: 119.4 GT (Implied to be superior to Hawk Gatling. Slightly pushed back a Biscuit Soldier who overpowered the Hawk Gatling)
Gear 4th: 477.6 GT (4x Compressed Hits. Compressed Hits = Biscuit Soldier > Hawk Gatling > Jet Gatling > 119.4 GT)
Leo Bazooka: 955.2 GT (Twice as strong as Gear 4th)
King Kong Gun: 1 TT (Far stronger than before)
Gear 2nd: >39.8 GT (Superior to his base)
Gear 3rd: 119.4 GT (Implied to be superior to Hawk Gatling. Slightly pushed back a Biscuit Soldier who overpowered the Hawk Gatling)
Gear 4th: 477.6 GT (4x Compressed Hits. Compressed Hits = Biscuit Soldier > Hawk Gatling > Jet Gatling > 119.4 GT)
Leo Bazooka: 955.2 GT (Twice as strong as Gear 4th)
King Kong Gun: 1 TT (Far stronger than before)
2nd Kata fight
Base: >39.8 GT (Stronger than before)
Gear 2nd: >39.8 GT (Stronger than before)
Snakeman: 119.4 GT (Comparable to Katakuri)
Gear 3rd: 477.6 GT (Late WCI G3rd ~ Awakened Punch ≥ Regular Big Punch = Early WCI G4th)
Gear 4th: >477.6 GT (Stronger than before)
Leo Bazooka: 955.2 GT (Twice as strong as Gear 4th)
King Kong Gun: 1 TT (Far stronger than before)
Gear 2nd: >39.8 GT (Stronger than before)
Snakeman: 119.4 GT (Comparable to Katakuri)
Gear 3rd: 477.6 GT (Late WCI G3rd ~ Awakened Punch ≥ Regular Big Punch = Early WCI G4th)
Gear 4th: >477.6 GT (Stronger than before)
Leo Bazooka: 955.2 GT (Twice as strong as Gear 4th)
King Kong Gun: 1 TT (Far stronger than before)
Now when it comes to the Monsters' Scaling, they will all scale above 39.8 GT
They scale above the fodder patrol Biscuit Soldiers, who only have 1 arm each side. That backscales from 1/3rd the result, so where base Luffy goes to 39.8 GT.
@SnookB @Eminiteable @GodlyCharmander @Damage3245 @Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin, any opinions, agreeals, disagreeals, anything?
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That was exactly what i was talking about few days ago and you said.... no, of course i didn't elaborate any further cuz nowadays I'm tired of doing walls of arguments on discussion so i can't blame you
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my bad ppl
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I think your suggestion is fine, btw
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Excellent job!
Shouldn't KKG scale to 4x the 477.6 GT of Gear 3rd? That's 1.9104 teratons
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Before I say anything, not upscaling is deliberate.
Upscaling is used with blatant showings of drastic differences in forms.
From what we know, there is a drastic difference in Dressrosa. But a certain form won't scale a certain amount higher in another key. That's why I didn't put G3rd above Jet Gatling in Dressrosa, but I did in WCI.
We have Base Luffy backscaling from G3rd in early WCI, while G3rd earlier was one shotting characters relative to that. So upscaling 2nd fight G4th from G3rd is unfounded.
We should refrain for upscaling because of prior keys' feats, and the upscaling reasonings should only be done based on what we have in the series..
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This looks good to me
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I don't know if this is a typo. I think it means "4x stronger WITH his compressed attacks", unless there's another attack over them shown during the cracker fight.
If I recall correctly the Kraken did take the Elephant gun to the face, and although it made him fall back to the depths he seemed conscious not too long after when Luffy rode it back. I'd say Surume can scale similiarly to how Doffy enduring Gear 4 does.
Other than that, there's nothing that stands out. It's all looking good!
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The compressed attacks are before they’re shot out of the compression, so before it expands, it matched the attack, and after it expanded, it was 4x stronger
Relative then?
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Oh, gotcha
Should be, imo. Or backscaled to it. I don't think he'd take that kinda hit consistently after all
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I see no issues, I agree with this.
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,389
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Looks good to me, his feat of harming Sanji in base should be valid now as well and can be added.
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Scales relative to G2nd
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Jet or Hawk Gatling being above Gear 3rd in the same key feels very wrong
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Multiple G2 hits being over a single G3 hit isn't that far fetched tbh-
The Hawk/Jet gatling values are the product of multiple strikes
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G3rd needs solid reasoning to be above it
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Agreed.
Btw,
1. Since I posted evidence of Base Buso Luffy tanking hits from Cracker soldiers, can Chopper's Guard Point Durability be High 6-C now?
2. For Surume, we can say that he's more durable than MP Chopper (who scales above Ittoryu Zoro who is 59.7 gigatons), as he took less damage and recovered faster? His AP can be relative to dura.
3.
4. I mean, Doffy scales above the Hawk Gatling IIRC, yet he blocked and dodged all of G3's attacks?
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Fine
Why would he be more superior?
Aight
Still wouldn’t be enough
Eminiteable
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No, he blocked and dodged Hawk gatling the same amount of times as Gear 3rd.
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G3 Chopper took a punch from G3 and was knocked out cold.
As mentioned above, Surume was relatively unhurt by G3 and recovered after a short bit.
Kinda figured but felt it was at least worth mentioning.
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Recovery speed, not endurance
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Ok.
Then I'm iffy on Surume scaling to G3, although considering how easily he tanked Franky's rockets that might be better.
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That was Franky in Chopper’s body that was on a rampage. That shouldn’t count against a Chopper who has complete control.
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