Yhwach The Almighty regen negation

[Damage3245]

Yeah it is since you're claiming that he regenerated, he was never shown to regenerate.

Show me a panel where he regenerated.

I provided proof that aizen regenerated literally 2 panels later.
Amd i provided proof that aizen didn't regen In his fight with yhwach despite the timeframe being larger, and aizen having multiple dialogues with both Yhwach and aizen.

I never claimed that he regenerated.

I said there's insufficient proof thst Yhwach negated his regeneration.

 

[Deceived3596]

Cool, what indicates that he didn't use the ability that he says he has with the Almighty? What statement or showing presents your argument that Yhwach couldn't manipulate the future and as he's breaking down his power to Orihime and Ichigo he even goes to point out that just as all they can do is affect the present, all he can do is affect every future he sees. The explanation he gives, directly points towards him just manipulating the future with the Almighty.

It's not my burden to prove Duedate, i'm not the one who's making the positive claim here, you are. It's your obligation to provide actual evidence, be it direct feats or statements, that proves Yhwach specifically used his Fate Manipulation during his fight against Ichibe.

If you can't provide actual evidence, concede the point.

Also, the explanation provided in both scans doesn't prove Yhwach used his Fate Manipulation during his fight against Ichibe, it just proves he used his Fate Manipulation during those specific instances. His actual explanation of The Almighty in his fight against Ichibe was about the Power Nullification effect that his future sight has, nothing to do with him attacking into the future, or anything in regards to Fate Manipulation. It's your job to prove he did use his Fate Manipulation, something you haven't substantiated yet (and will never substantiate because it doesn't happen)

 

[Hellscream]

I never claimed that he regenerated.

I said there's insufficient proof thst Yhwach negated his regeneration.

Uh, yeah you did?

"Unless we have proof that Aizen was incapable of regenerating, I'm against giving regeneration negation."

The proof is that Aizen didn't regenerate that's your proof.
I already explained and showed why that's more than enough proof to support my claims.
Not a single proper counter-argument has been provided, not to mention without any evidence to back them up.

 

[Damage3245]

The proof is that Aizen didn't regenerate that's your proof.

That's not sufficient proof.

 

[Hellscream]

That's not sufficient proof.

Yes it is

Anything that's affected by the almighty being unable to be undone supports this even more.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes it is

Anything that's affected by the almighty being unable to be undone supports this even more.

Well, you'll need to get more input from staff because so far it seems Duedate and I are against it, and LordGriffin is for it though LordGriffin probably hasn't seen any of the arguments that have gone back and forth here.

 

[Hellscream]

Except for that there haven't been any counter arguments, you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing based on nothing.

 

[Damage3245]

Except for that there haven't been any counter arguments, you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing based on nothing.

I'm sorry if that's how you see it but I don't think that's the case.

 

[Reio35]

I don't agree with this cause we also have the likes of Ichibe regenerating while Yhwach is still alive, and his regen isn't as good. This could just be a case of Aizen's regen not kicking in yet, cause everything is happening so fast. All the other times we've seen him regen before this, there is normally a bit of delay before he starts healing.

Yhwach killed him with telekinesis not the Almighty. Yhwach said he crushed him with raw power

 

[LordGinSama]

Yhwach doesn't have Fate Manipulation pre Mimihagi and SK absorbtion. Before all he could do it see the future and power null whatever he sees working against him. He never once mentioned the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei, nor is he shown ever using the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei whom Yhwach was actively trying to kill.



Also agreed 100% with Regeneration Negation for the Almighty, as I'm very positive there was also a literal statement about the Almighty causing damage that can't be fixed. Hence why Ichigo and co needed to use Book of The End to counteract The Almighty's effect on Zanpakuto, the influence of the Almighty effects the present and the future, so the only proper way to deal with the Almighty's effects after you've been affected is to alter the past.

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach doesn't have Fate Manipulation pre Mimihagi and SK absorbtion. Before all he could do it see the future and power null whatever he sees working against him. He never once mentioned the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei, nor is he shown ever using the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei whom Yhwach was actively trying to kill.

He doesn't have to mention the future modification aspect to be able to use it, and he doesn't have to demonstrate it for it to be within his capabilities either.

 

[YungManzi]

Yhwach doesn't have Fate Manipulation pre Mimihagi and SK absorbtion. Before all he could do it see the future and power null whatever he sees working against him. He never once mentioned the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei, nor is he shown ever using the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei whom Yhwach was actively trying to kill.



Also agreed 100% with Regeneration Negation for the Almighty, as I'm very positive there was also a literal statement about the Almighty causing damage that can't be fixed. Hence why Ichigo and co needed to use Book of The End to counteract The Almighty's effect on Zanpakuto, the influence of the Almighty effects the present and the future, so the only proper way to deal with the Almighty's effects after you've been affected

If this fate thing is true then Yhwach really shouldn’t have won some of his matches pre-absorption.

 

[Duedate8898]

Yhwach doesn't have Fate Manipulation pre Mimihagi and SK absorbtion. Before all he could do it see the future and power null whatever he sees working against him. He never once mentioned the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei, nor is he shown ever using the future modification aspect in his fight against Ichibei whom Yhwach was actively trying to kill.

Again, this is never stated or even implied. Yhwach's own statements point towards his Almighty always working as he states when he explains it to Ichigo. This idea that his Almighty couldn't alter fate beforehand is being asserted without any solid evidence for it actually being a thing.

Also agreed 100% with Regeneration Negation for the Almighty, as I'm very positive there was also a literal statement about the Almighty causing damage that can't be fixed. Hence why Ichigo and co needed to use Book of The End to counteract The Almighty's effect on Zanpakuto, the influence of the Almighty effects the present and the future, so the only proper way to deal with the Almighty's effects after you've been affected is to alter the past.

In all explanations of the Almighty, neither Yhwach nor anyone else states he causes damage that can't be fix. There is mention that Orihime's rejection power does not work but Orihime's power also does have the weakness of being unable to reject things too powerful for her as precedence was set with Ulquiorra.

This then goes into another thing which I just remembered and that's Renji's shikai never got fixed by Orihime nor did Tsukishima update his past so it could get fixed yet it's back to normal by the time we see him attacking Yhwach alongside Ichigo. And while we know a Soul Reaper can repair their weapons if they're broken in Shikai, if Yhwach's Almighty truly made something broke forever then Renji wouldn't be able to have his shikai.

Further proof that Yhwach isn't negating regeneration.

 

[Damage3245]

It's weird. I've never seen this idea that Yhwach didn't have Fate Manipulation all along until now, in all my years of debating Bleach.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

This then goes into another thing which I just remembered and that's Renji's shikai never got fixed by Orihime nor did Tsukishima update his past so it could get fixed yet it's back to normal by the time we see him attacking Yhwach alongside Ichigo. And while we know a Soul Reaper can repair their weapons if they're broken in Shikai, if Yhwach's Almighty truly made something broke forever then Renji wouldn't be able to have his shikai.

Further proof that Yhwach isn't negating regeneration.

u are aware that the renji and ichigo on that fight was aizen? only person present there was aizen at the start who lost an arm etc. and then ichigo at the last moment, renji was never present there, and is not seen otherwise.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

It's weird. I've never seen this idea that Yhwach didn't have Fate Manipulation all along until now, in all my years of debating Bleach.

u must have been gone for a while then

 

[Hellscream]

You're the one that needs to come up with the evidence that it wasn't the case. i already explained thoroughly why the almighty became more powerful, you didn't address any of my arguments. You can't prove that he used fate manipulation against Ichibei, and his second power was explained after gaining a more powerful version of it after absorbing the soul king.

For your second argument yes it was stated that anything done by the almighty is unable to be undone. due to the almighty destroying something in the infinite amount of futures it can alter at once. They had to insert a past where ichigo's bankai wasn't broken in order to heal it.
Literally had nothing to do with Ulquiorra.

How is this an argument?
You realize Yhwach was under the effect of Kyouka suigetsu right?
Please show me where renji was after the effects of Kyouka suigetsu disappeared.
And just saying but a shikai doesn't repair itself within a few seconds.

 

[Deceived3596]

Duedate, it seems like you're misunderstanding what the regen negation actually is, we (or, at least me) isn't arguing that every single action done in the future by Yhwach's Almighty negates regeneration, it's a very specific action which Yhwach needs to do to actually keep the regeneration/healing potential of another null. Appealing to Renji's shikai wouldn't matter for a multitude of reasons, one of the biggest reasons is that we have zero idea if Yhwach actively tried to negate the regenerative process of Renji's shikai or not, it's an assumption on our part to assume he did or didn't, i don't believe you can't prove why your assumption is better compared to my assumption while i believe i can prove why my assumption is better than your assumption through Yhwach's own words (will explain, and provide scans for in another post later).

I'll make a much more in-depth explanation about Yhwach's regen negation later, just woke up.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

FYI Yhwach killing ichibe is accepted as being done via his TK, not fate hax

Telekinesis (Yhwach can destroy a persons limbs or body without moving a finger[22]. Yhwach is additionally capable of pushing people away with Telekinesis[23] or simply blowing them up internally[24])

 

[Hellscream]

Duedate, it seems like you're misunderstanding what the regen negation actually is, we (or, at least me) isn't arguing that every single action done in the future by Yhwach's Almighty negates regeneration, it's a very specific action which Yhwach needs to do to actually keep the regeneration/healing potential of another null. Appealing to Renji's shikai wouldn't matter for a multitude of reasons, one of the biggest reasons is that we have zero idea if Yhwach actively tried to negate the regenerative process of Renji's shikai or not, it's an assumption on our part to assume he did or didn't, i don't believe you can't prove why your assumption is better compared to my assumption while i believe i can prove why my assumption is better than your assumption through Yhwach's own words (will explain, and provide scans for in another post later).

I'll make a much more in-depth explanation about Yhwach's regen negation later, just woke up.

The argument of renji isn't even valid since Yhwach was under the effect of Kyouksa suigetsu, and renji was nowhere to be seen after the effects were gone.

 

[Damage3245]

FYI Yhwach killing ichibe is accepted as being done via his TK, not fate hax

Telekinesis (Yhwach can destroy a persons limbs or body without moving a finger[22]. Yhwach is additionally capable of pushing people away with Telekinesis[23] or simply blowing them up internally[24])

I would just note that this is a conclusion we came to, not something directly told to us from the manga.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I would just note that this is a conclusion we came to, not something directly told to us from the manga.

and yet its accepted

 

[Damage3245]

and yet its accepted

Sure, but I wouldn't use something being on the profiles as being proof that it is absolutely true.

 

[Hellscream]

FYI Yhwach killing ichibe is accepted as being done via his TK, not fate hax

Telekinesis (Yhwach can destroy a persons limbs or body without moving a finger[22]. Yhwach is additionally capable of pushing people away with Telekinesis[23] or simply blowing them up internally[24])

I assume i can count you as being in agreement of the upgrade?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Sure, but I wouldn't use something being on the profiles as being proof that it is absolutely true.

things on the profiles must pass and get approval (just like this thread) u now saying "well i disagree now, so i will ignore it" is not an argument since it has been accepted as valid.

coming out now saying "no" so that the argument of "well he used fate hax" can be conveniently used on the thread

 

[Damage3245]

things on the profiles must pass and get approval (just like this thread) u now saying "well i disagree now, so i will ignore it" is not an argument since it has been accepted as valid.

coming out now saying "no" so that the argument of "well he used fate hax" can be conveniently used on the thread

I never said I was ignoring it...

I'm not even arguing that Yhwach used Fate Manipulation on Ichibe.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I assume i can count you as being in agreement of the upgrade?

yes

 

[Maitreya12]

I’m in agreement as well tbh.

I don’t see a reason why Aizen would suddenly halt his regeneration for whatever reason against Yhwach and I do believe Yhwach’s almighty got more potent as he absorbed the Soul King.

Though it should’ve specified as “limited regeneration negation” since Aizen did seem to regen later on. And if that isn’t acceptable enough I think a “likely” rating would suffice.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I’m in agreement as well tbh.

I don’t see a reason why Aizen would suddenly halt his regeneration for whatever reason against Yhwach and I do believe Yhwach’s almighty got more potent as he absorbed the Soul King.

Though it should’ve specified as “limited regeneration negation” since Aizen did seem to regen later on. And if that isn’t acceptable enough I think a “likely” rating would suffice.

yes, the agreement before was to put limited, cus the moment YH "died" he was able to regen

 

[Damage3245]

I don’t see a reason why Aizen would suddenly halt his regeneration for whatever reason against Yhwach and I do believe Yhwach’s almighty got more potent as he absorbed the Soul King.

I don't think the argument is that Aizen consciously halted his regeneration.

It's just that Aizen's regeneration takes some amount of time before it begins. And Aizen had only a short interval of speaking to Ichigo before Yhwach promptly swallowed him up with his darkness.

All we know for certain is that Aizen didn't regenerate in that short interval.

We don't know for a fact that Yhwach prevented Aizen from regenerating. That is not stated or alluded to. Aizen doesn't comment on being unable to repair himself, and we don't see long after the battle that Aizen is still missing a limb or has a hole in his chest.

So no matter what we end up going with, I'm against a solid negation for it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I don't think the argument is that Aizen consciously halted his regeneration.

It's just that Aizen's regeneration takes some amount of time before it begins. And Aizen had only a short interval of speaking to Ichigo before Yhwach promptly swallowed him up with his darkness.

not accurate since we know that since "renji" lost an arm from the beginning of the fight, which we see ichigo also missing then get revealed it was aizen all along,
so aizen has been missing that harm for a while now, not from the short talk with ichigo

 

[Malekith]

I don't think the argument is that Aizen consciously halted his regeneration.

It's just that Aizen's regeneration takes some amount of time before it begins. And Aizen had only a short interval of speaking to Ichigo before Yhwach promptly swallowed him up with his darkness.

All we know for certain is that Aizen didn't regenerate in that short interval.

We don't know for a fact that Yhwach prevented Aizen from regenerating. That is not stated or alluded to. Aizen doesn't comment on being unable to repair himself, and we don't see long after the battle that Aizen is still missing a limb or has a hole in his chest.

So no matter what we end up going with, I'm against a solid negation for it.

His assumptions lead to another point, which is Yhwach at the very least delaying Aizen's regeneration for a short period of time.

 

[Hellscream]

I don't think the argument is that Aizen consciously halted his regeneration.

It's just that Aizen's regeneration takes some amount of time before it begins. And Aizen had only a short interval of speaking to Ichigo before Yhwach promptly swallowed him up with his darkness.

All we know for certain is that Aizen didn't regenerate in that short interval.

We don't know for a fact that Yhwach prevented Aizen from regenerating. That is not stated or alluded to. Aizen doesn't comment on being unable to repair himself, and we don't see long after the battle that Aizen is still missing a limb or has a hole in his chest.

So no matter what we end up going with, I'm against a solid negation for it.

I already proved previously that the timeframe that aizen needs to regenerate is way shorter than what was shown in his fight with yhwach.
You don't need a comment on it in order to prove it, the proof is right there on panel.
Aizen regenerated 2 panels after ichigo hit him with mugetsu, here we have aizen not regenerating for an entire chapter.
And going through 10 dialogues.

There's no reason why it shouldn't get a solid rating.

 

[YungManzi]

I think it's fair to say even if he can't fully negate it he slows it down so "Limited Regeneration Negation" is fine.

Naruto has Limited Low-Godly negation via the same justification.

 

[Maitreya12]

I don't think the argument is that Aizen consciously halted his regeneration.

It's just that Aizen's regeneration takes some amount of time before it begins. And Aizen had only a short interval of speaking to Ichigo before Yhwach promptly swallowed him up with his darkness.

All we know for certain is that Aizen didn't regenerate in that short interval.

We don't know for a fact that Yhwach prevented Aizen from regenerating. That is not stated or alluded to. Aizen doesn't comment on being unable to repair himself, and we don't see long after the battle that Aizen is still missing a limb or has a hole in his chest.

So no matter what we end up going with, I'm against a solid negation for it.

Hmm.

So I compiled together every image of Aizen with the damage on his body.

His body is shown to have been hit by Yhwach literally on the second to last page of chapter 683 and he again appears in pages 2 and 3 of chapter 684 before getting absorbed. Amounting to 3 pages total right. He still appears with the damage on him on pages 2 and 3 but this is admittedly a very short interval of time frame/showing like you said. Which I think does give a valid interpretation for you to have.

However I am also interested in this point brought up by TOAA though:

not accurate since we know that since "renji" lost an arm from the beginning of the fight, which we see ichigo also missing then get revealed it was aizen all along,
so aizen has been missing that harm for a while now, not from the short talk with ichigo

Which effectively makes for a much longer period of time for Aizen not regenerating. And looking back at the chapter the arm Ichigo is missing is not only on the same side where Renji lost his arm but also where the arm got severed at is one the same spot. So what about this?

 

[Reio35]

Again, this is never stated or even implied. Yhwach's own statements point towards his Almighty always working as he states when he explains it to Ichigo. This idea that his Almighty couldn't alter fate beforehand is being asserted without any solid evidence for it actually being a thing.

In all explanations of the Almighty, neither Yhwach nor anyone else states he causes damage that can't be fix. There is mention that Orihime's rejection power does not work but Orihime's power also does have the weakness of being unable to reject things too powerful for her as precedence was set with Ulquiorra.

This then goes into another thing which I just remembered and that's Renji's shikai never got fixed by Orihime nor did Tsukishima update his past so it could get fixed yet it's back to normal by the time we see him attacking Yhwach alongside Ichigo. And while we know a Soul Reaper can repair their weapons if they're broken in Shikai, if Yhwach's Almighty truly made something broke forever then Renji wouldn't be able to have his shikai.

Further proof that Yhwach isn't negating regeneration.

Against ichibei he used telekinesis we see him lifting his hand which is a indicator he's using it. Yhwach at the time was only using the Almighty defensively nullifying abilities which is what he explained to ichibei. Then during his battle with ichigo we see him use it offensively for the first time destroying ichigos bankai.When he destroyed renjis shikai we dont know what he used. Could have been his reiastu or Almighty. Even if it was Almighty renji likely would have been healed off panel like ichigo. It would make no sense for them not to heal renji. Also that wasn't renji in that panel that's was KS.


Orhime was rejecting yhwachs attacks multiple times. It was only after yhwach used Almighty she couldn't reject it. Orhimes power being overpowered in the past is not a debunk this is a much stronger orhime with her power improved

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Phsccarvalho]

So how was it? Will it be "limited" or not? In the votes it is not showing that it accepted as "limited".

 

[Hellscream]

So how was it? Will it be "limited" or not? In the votes it is not showing that it accepted as "limited".

It's only limited in the sense of the almighty being active

 

[Loyd]

Agree, it's pretty clear cut the dismembering effect is exactly the same as all previous iteration of the Almighty hax Yhwach uses, which was clearly distinct from his telekinesis where he raises his hand and blows chunks off a character.