Bleach's Greatest Fanfic

[Agnaa]

Why are you assuming somebody has to be relative to be unaffected by it? All it means is that the gap between Aizen and ordinary humans =/= the gap between Ichigo and Orihime. Why is that farfetched?

Is Gin an ordinary human?

EDIT: Just checked the profiles and we've got Gin and Orihime at the same tier (with Gin able to reach higher with Bankai/Buto Renjin). Gin got EE'd by Aizen, Orihime didn't get EE'd by Ichigo, Ichigo is stronger than Aizen. Ergo, the EE isn't something obtained by being stronger.

 

[Damage3245]

Why are you assuming somebody has to be relative to be unaffected by it? All it means is that the gap between Aizen and ordinary humans =/= the gap between Ichigo and Orihime. Why is that farfetched?

Is Gin an ordinary human?

EDIT: Just checked the profiles and we've got Gin and Orihime at the same tier (with Gin able to reach higher with Bankai/Buto Renjin). Gin got EE'd by Aizen, Orihime didn't get EE'd by Ichigo, Ichigo is stronger than Aizen. Ergo, the EE isn't something obtained by being stronger.

Orihime is in the same tier as Gin purely by lack of feats; that isn't a limiter to say she couldn't be stronger. Her last keys notes that she has been training the war arc - Orihime simply isn't shown any decent offensive feats in her battle (even though her shields can now withstand attacks from the like of Soul King Yhwach). So her defensive feats her insane - her offensive feats haven't been shown in the war.

Also, Gin was only erased seemingly when physical contact was made between him and Aizen. I don't recall full power Ichigo touching Orihime.

 

[Agnaa]

I guess so.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’ll respond later today or tomorrow (because school not because I’m lazy )

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is Gin an ordinary human?

EDIT: Just checked the profiles and we've got Gin and Orihime at the same tier (with Gin able to reach higher with Bankai/Buto Renjin). Gin got EE'd by Aizen, Orihime didn't get EE'd by Ichigo, Ichigo is stronger than Aizen. Ergo, the EE isn't something obtained by being stronger.

Nope, he is Shinigami aka soul reaper. If he was human, Aizen would not even look at him

 

[Luziifero]

Nope, he is Shinigami aka soul reaper. If he was human, Aizen would not even look at him

 

[Duedate8898]

Ichigo is a weird situation. While he is a human normally, he should be considered a shinigami whenever he fights since he's fighting as a Soul instead of in his human body.

 

[Damage3245]

Ichigo is half-Quincy half-Shinigami anyway.

 

[speedster352]

5 pages all ready? this is a very interesting development.

 

[Luziifero]

Ichigo is a weird situation. While he is a human normally, he should be considered a shinigami whenever he fights since he's fighting as a Soul instead of in his human body.

 

[Duedate8898]

I mean you can show those. doesn't change the fact that we've been shown throughout the series and in this very arc, that Ichigo does leave his body behind when he fights as a Shinigami. Aizen screaming all that shit about being a human is just him pointing out that Ichigo is a human. He's just not in his human body in this fight.

 

[Luziifero]

I mean you can show those. doesn't change the fact that we've been shown throughout the series and in this very arc, that Ichigo does leave his body behind when he fights as a Shinigami. Aizen screaming all that shit about being a human is just him pointing out that Ichigo is a human. He's just not in his human body in this fight.

oh I know I just think it's funny despite this aizen still chooses to call him human

 

[Arcker123]

Cornball debate tbh.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Taking it out of context ofc

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ichigo is an amalgamation of all races yes. The point with the argument however is not that, but rather Aizen categorizes Ichigo as human. So when he refers to humans, it follows that Ichigo is included, as Aizen calls Ichigo a human.

 

[Damage3245]

Ichigo is an amalgamation of all races yes. The point with the argument however is not that, but rather Aizen categorizes Ichigo as human. So when he refers to humans, it follows that Ichigo is included, as Aizen calls Ichigo a human.

Strictly speaking that wouldn't apply to Ichigo at that point where he fought Aizen. Aizen made the statements prior to Ichigo's Dangai training, and when Ichigo emerged he was significantly stronger and shouldn't necessarily be counted against the statement Aizen made against humans earlier on.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ichigo is an amalgamation of all races yes. The point with the argument however is not that, but rather Aizen categorizes Ichigo as human. So when he refers to humans, it follows that Ichigo is included, as Aizen calls Ichigo a human.

It is only my opinion, but I think whatever Aizen says is “human”, he meant weak races since he despises weak beings.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Strictly speaking that wouldn't apply to Ichigo at that point where he fought Aizen. Aizen made the statements prior to Ichigo's Dangai training, and when Ichigo emerged he was significantly stronger and shouldn't necessarily be counted against the statement Aizen made against humans earlier on.

No my point is simply that regular humans aren’t the only ones included in that statement, I didn’t mention Dangai Ichigo inherently.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We know for a fact that Aizen does in fact have a passive EE aura that works on individuals. There's nothing likely or possibly about that, it's just flat out the case, so him having it is fine. We've never been given an explicit limitation to this erasure ability that it wouldn't work on those comparable to him, so I don't think there's anything that proves it would be limited. Now characters like Ichigo and Yhwach do get close to Aizen and aren't effected, so I do think they should receive a resistance to existence erasure

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Based Mitch fr fr

 

[Arcker123]

Damage is my father and I love him very much. Disagree FRA

Fra

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

stop biting the hand that feeds you goober

 

[Arcker123]

stop biting the hand that feeds you goober

 

[Majinere566]

Least chaotic bleach crt in Zimbabwe

 

[ImmortalDread]

We know for a fact that Aizen does in fact have a passive EE aura that works on individuals. There's nothing likely or possibly about that, it's just flat out the case, so him having it is fine. We've never been given an explicit limitation to this erasure ability that it wouldn't work on those comparable to him, so I don't think there's anything that proves it would be limited. Now characters like Ichigo and Yhwach do get close to Aizen and aren't effected, so I do think they should receive a resistance to existence erasure

I don't want to be biased or anything on that topic. Him having passive EE is clear, but it just shows in the series that this works who are weaker than him.
I kinda did not understand why he got limited, rather it should be a justification beside it or an explanation for that.
After @Arc7Kuroi dropped a scene where they commented how they still survive in their range, I kinda changed my mind about it.

I got a question for @Damage3245; what do you think about this?

 

[Agnaa]

Is there anything more to that scene than that one picture? It seems real vague by itself.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Is there anything more to that scene than that one picture? It seems real vague by itself.

My bad; this scan is taken out of context. I returned to reading it, and the user took it out of context.

You can read it here https://bleachmangareader.com/read-bleach-chapter-375-excution-extinction-for-free/

He meant he wouldn't be killed if he went on the Aizen team. And the following scenes are just the fight between other captains.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't want to be biased or anything on that topic. Him having passive EE is clear, but it just shows in the series that this works who are weaker than him.
I kinda did not understand why he got limited, rather it should be a justification beside it or an explanation for that.
After @Arc7Kuroi dropped a scene where they commented how they still survive in their range, I kinda changed my mind about it.

The limited comes from the fact that it has only been shown to work on characters significantly weaker than Aizen spiritiually.

Every time we see Aizen be near people who aren't significantly weaker than him spiritually (Yhwach and Ichigo) there has never been any implication that they were supposed to be erased if not for some unexplained resistance to having their existences erased.

Instead of assuming that they possess some inherent resistance that is never alluded to, I think it would be safer to treat it as they weren't going to be erased by Aizen's EE aura.

Likewise Aizen doesn't have resistance to death manipulation just because he can stand near Starrk whose outrageous spiritual pressure passively kills weak Hollows. Instead he's just not weak enough to succumb to it like those Hollows.

 

[Hasty12345]

I fail to see how that’s “limited”, just because it can be resisted through soul based resistances and strength, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t erase a 4-B character with no such resistances

 

[Damage3245]

I fail to see how that’s “limited”, just because it can be resisted through soul based resistances and strength, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t erase a 4-B character with no such resistances

Nobody said it wouldn't erase a 4-B character.

 

[Hasty12345]

Nobody said it wouldn't erase a 4-B character.

I’m confused as to why it’s considered limited in any fashion then.

 

[Agnaa]

Nobody said it wouldn't erase a 4-B character.

Wait, if you're not suggesting that, why would you word things that way?

It's not limited if it can work on 3-Bs. It still needs a resistance to function.

 

[Damage3245]

Wait, if you're not suggesting that, why would you word things that way?

It's not limited if it can work on 3-Bs. It still needs a resistance to function.

This is why I didn't like the wording being thrown around earlier in the thread that it only works on people with lower Attack Potency, when you'll notice that none of my arguments ever contained that. I said this wasn't the case earlier in the thread.

The issue Agnaa is that it is not the Existence Erasure that they're resisting specifically. They're just not weak enough to the point where Aizen's Spiritual Pressure would affect them in the first place.

I've never understood the word "Limited" for an ability only to mean that it is limited to characters of a certain AP tier.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Wait, if you're not suggesting that, why would you word things that way?

It's not limited if it can work on 3-Bs. It still needs a resistance to function.

Actually if we look at it Lille ~ Shunsui in reastu but Lille never got affected by SK Yhwach Reatsu.
But we see Aizen warning Shunsui to not to get close to him. I am pretty sure Aizen reatsu EE doesn't comes from power based. If it's really power based then Lille should have crushed by Yhwach Reatsu which we know he doesn't hold back unlike Ichigo. I don't think Aizen reatsu is based on power based where i Ichigo and Yhwach who has same level of reatsu as Aizen walks around not affecting anyone where Aizen is the one to shown the feat of erasing others even though he is sealed. I don't think it's power limited.

 

[Agnaa]

This is why I didn't like the wording being thrown around earlier in the thread that it only works on people with lower Attack Potency, when you'll notice that none of my arguments ever contained that. I said this wasn't the case earlier in the thread.

The issue Agnaa is that it is not the Existence Erasure that they're resisting specifically. They're just not weak enough to the point where Aizen's Spiritual Pressure would affect them in the first place.

I've never understood the word "Limited" for an ability only to mean that it is limited to characters of a certain AP tier.

I understand "Limited" to mean that it functions with a narrower scope than one would usually expect from such an ability.

"It can EE any 3D character, unless they have significantly strong souls" doesn't sound more limited than most EE, to me.

I'd consider EE limited if it's, like, "Can only EE people whose names start with the letter 'e'".

 

[Damage3245]

@EldemadeDityjon Lille was never in a position to be affected by Yhwach. It's also range-depenedent.

 

[Damage3245]

I understand "Limited" to mean that it functions with a narrower scope than one would usually expect from such an ability.

"It can EE any 3D character, unless they have significantly strong souls" doesn't sound more limited than most EE, to me.

I'd consider EE limited if it's, like, "Can only EE people whose names start with the letter 'e'".

Right. In this case the "scope" would be characters who have massively weaker souls than Aizen. That makes sense to me at least.

The implication that Yhwach and Ichigo could just resist any other type of Existence Erasure attack based on them not being erased by being near Aizen seems like a big reach to me.

Especially when it is never confirmed that the only reason they weren't erased is because they have some unexplained resistance to that specifically.

 

[Agnaa]

If souls can withstand abilities like that through being strong, that's just resistance to soul manipulation, which works on this EE since it is done via soul manip.

Some people in the setting being strong enough to withstand something does not make it limited. And we usually consider stuff like "I'm too strong for X ability to work" to just be resistance to that ability.

I explained my view on the "limited" term here, and Ant agreed with it:

But the way I see it, "Limited" is for abilities that have the ability limited to a narrower scope than usual, but with the same potency. For example, Power Mimicry that can copy skill with weapons, but not techniques or superpowers. While "Minor" is for abilities that occur to a much smaller degree than usually expected for the ability, but still with a normal scope. For example, legitimate generic healing that only restores a tiny amount of health.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@EldemadeDityjon Lille was never in a position to be affected by Yhwach. It's also range-depenedent.

Not really though. Let me give you another example why didn't Renji Zanpackto got erased ? He is massively weaker than Shunsui though. Yhwach was keeping that in his hands. Also why didn't Orihime gir erased? She was exposed to Yhwach Reatsu?

 

[Agnaa]

The implication that Yhwach and Ichigo could just resist any other type of Existence Erasure attack based on them not being erased by being near Aizen seems like a big reach to me.

I missed this before, but I'd like to address it; most abilities can be resisted either by resisting their mechanism, or resisting their effect. If Yhwach and Ichigo resist it because their souls are strong, that would only help them against soul-based abilities, and not, say, plot-based EE.