The Fate of the World (Neo Metal Sonic vs Yhwach) [13-8-1]

[Hellscream]

so now mecha sonic.. a robot.. no soul.. now he is affected by something that destroys your soul?.. just because bleach verse does this?.

literally someone said that physiology can't be matched a few pages back... why are you bringing this up?

not that i care about sonic or bleach but... you are posting something that was already argued.

Because he's literally erasing an inanimate object in the said feat... which is his staff?

 

[Ikelaggan]

Like i said before
The hole being made in yhwach's body happens within his own sphere of causality which he can change.

Why would being in your bubble of causality make you immune to someone else's actions that function in a different system of causality?

 

[Hellscream]

• Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement Fear Manipulation and many other)

"many others"
Existence erasure is one of them just saying if you don't know bleach btw

 

[omegabronic]

can you provide me the threads where you're getting this info from?

what thread? i am just explaining the basic logic of cause and effect

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

this grants them resistance how exactly does this affect yhwach's own causality? Sonic is the one with an irregular system of cause and effect, not yhwach.

causality, aka cause and effect, yhwach getting a hole in his body is an effect caused by metal, so to stop said effect he has to stop the cause, which he can't here, the future where he gets harmed and killed by metal he won't be able to change since he would have to interfere with metal's cause and effect which he can't here, plus you are ignoring the fact that he will not be able to see his death at all since he can't see metal at all

Yhwach's causality still gets affected and changed just fine. The effect is sonic affecting Yhwach's causality which Yhwach can change.

do you know how fate manipulation works? it is manipulating the actions of the future, he can't manipulate the actions of metal, aka he can't stop metal from killing him, so him getting a hole in his body will happen no matter what, he cannot change the actions that lead to it so it will happen

This literally just means that yhwach can't affect sonic at all with his fate manipulation. Nowhere does it state that beings with acausality also alter the causality of the beings that are affected by it. Those said beings are still tied and affected by it.

good straw man, that is not what i said at all, let us start simple first, do you know what cause and effect is?

The hole that's in yhwach's body is still within his own sphere of causality.

nope, it is in metal's as well since it is the effect of his cause

Acasuality is getting giga wanked here, idk why it would negate Yhwach using almighty on himself to ressurect despite the fact that metal sonic has never showed feats of his attack negating fate based ressurection, type 4 only gives resistence to fate manip and casuality and nothing more.

yhwach dying is an effect from metal's cause, therefore to change his death he has to change the effect and/or cause that leads to it, aka metal attacking, which he can't here since he cannot change the effects caused by metal's causes

Actually i forgot soul crush can affect inanimate objects
Reiatsu crush GG?

metal resists existance erasure, so this is irrelevant

 

[omegabronic]

• Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement Fear Manipulation and many other)

"many others"
Existence erasure is one of them just saying if you don't know bleach btw

again this is irrelevant, metal resists

 

[Maitreya12]

• Aura (Overwhelming, Fear Inducement, Materialized and Explosive: Reiatsu induces a plethora of different aliments/effects onto those that affected by it like Soul Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement Fear Manipulation and many other)

"many others"
Existence erasure is one of them just saying if you don't know bleach btw

This is not true.

Currently Aizen is the only one listed as having “possibly” existence erasure with his Reiatsu. This does not scale to Yhwach.

If you don’t like that you’re welcome to make a CRT about it but this is not an inherent ability to Reiatsu crush.

 

[Hellscream]

This is not true.

Currently Aizen is the only one listed as having “possibly” existence erasure with his Reiatsu. This does not scale to Yhwach.

If you don’t like that you’re welcome to make a CRT about it but this is not an inherent ability to Reiatsu crush.

Okay, so you don't even know how reiatsu crush works

Aizen disintigrates his opponent due to the absurd power difference between them which is how reiatsu works, the effects of it differ depending on the strength of the said opponent and the amount of reiatsu they have, just like aizen didn't passively disintegrate stronger character ssuch a captain class shinigami, and ichigo. Those beings were affected as well, but simply got crushed to the floor, not disintegrated due to the difference of reiatsu between them not being as substantial.
In bleach reiatsu has been shown to be the same for every character. So it is indeed an inherent ability to reiatsu crush

So yes, all characters that scale to aizen's level of reiatsu get passive existence erasure .

 

[omegabronic]

Okay, so you don't even know how reiatsu crush works

Aizen disintigrates his opponent due to the absurd power difference between them which is how reiatsu works, the effects of it differ depending on the strength of the said opponent and the amount of reiatsu they have, just like aizen didn't passively disintegrate stronger character ssuch a captain class shinigami, and ichigo. Those beings were affected as well, but simply got crushed to the floor, not disintegrated due to the difference of reiatsu between them not being as substantial.
In bleach reiatsu has been shown to be the same for every character. So it is indeed an inherent ability to reiatsu crush

So yes, all characters that scale to aizen's level of reiatsu get passive existence erasure .

again this is irrelevant, metal resists

 

[Hellscream]

Im simply debunking statements of people that don't even know how reiatsu crush works.

Make a thread for your acausality shit to get accepted.

 

[omegabronic]

Im simply debunking statements of people that don't even know how reiatsu crush works.

acusations aside, stop it, it is irrelevant for this thread

Make a thread for your acausality shit to get accepted.

i don't need to, it is simple logic of how cause and effect work, if you are just going to ignore the explanations and not even try to address them, then that is your problem, that is how cause and effect work

 

[Lynieryz]

Yhwach FRA

 

[Hellscream]

you're just repeating the same shit over and over, and im repeating the same shit over and over.
Currently the way acausality is accepted is that it simply gives resistance to fate maipulation, causality manipulation etc.
Make a thread and get your claims over acausality nulling the effects that fate manipulation users have on themselves accepted.

 

[Maitreya12]

Okay, so you don't even know how reiatsu crush works

Aizen disintigrates his opponent due to the absurd power difference between them which is how reiatsu works, the effects of it differ depending on the strength of the said opponent and the amount of reiatsu they have, just like aizen didn't passively disintegrate stronger character ssuch a captain class shinigami, and ichigo. Those beings were affected as well, but simply got crushed to the floor, not disintegrated due to the difference of reiatsu between them not being as substantial.
In bleach reiatsu has been shown to be the same for every character. So it is indeed an inherent ability to reiatsu crush

So yes, all characters that scale to aizen's level of reiatsu get passive existence erasure .

Make a CRT about it guy, it’s not listed on the reiatsu crush profile. Clearly you don’t know how the wiki works.

 

[TUHTPeaSkull12]

Okay, so you don't even know how reiatsu crush works

Aizen disintigrates his opponent due to the absurd power difference between them which is how reiatsu works, the effects of it differ depending on the strength of the said opponent and the amount of reiatsu they have, just like aizen didn't passively disintegrate stronger character ssuch a captain class shinigami, and ichigo. Those beings were affected as well, but simply got crushed to the floor, not disintegrated due to the difference of reiatsu between them not being as substantial.
In bleach reiatsu has been shown to be the same for every character. So it is indeed an inherent ability to reiatsu crush

So yes, all characters that scale to aizen's level of reiatsu get passive existence erasure .

then... you should make a ctr for it to be in the profile, because until it is not... then I don't see the reason to include it here.

that and apparently metal resists that shit so I see no reason to continue it here.

 

[omegabronic]

neo metal sonic 13 (BEASTHEART880, Artorimachi_Meteoraft GlaceonGamez471 Dragonite007 Gilad_Hyperstar TauanVictor Maverick_Zero_X YungManzi Ikelaggan Setsuna_tenma Doggo omegabronic Undylan)
yhwach 8 (Deceived3596 LaserPrecision Shmooply Smashtwig Hellscream CodeCCLL Axl233 Lynieryz)
incon 1 (Robo)
just keeping the votes to make it easier for the op

 

[omegabronic]

you're just repeating the same shit over and over, and im repeating the same shit over and over.

i am addressing and explaining, you are not even trying to explain or understand, explain why my explanations are wrong

Currently the way acausality is accepted is that it simply gives resistance to fate maipulation, causality manipulation etc.

no, read it again, causality is nothing more than cause and effect, so since yhwach's death is an effect caused by metal, he cannot rewrite it since he cannot interfere with metal's causality, yhwach own causality is irrelevant since he cannot change the future caused by metal's causality no matter what, so he will die and he will not be able to change it, since he would need to change metal's as well

Make a thread and get your claims over acausality nulling the effects that fate manipulation users have on themselves accepted.

it is already accepted, you are the one not understanding how cause and effect works

 

[omegabronic]

grace was over hours ago, we can wait a few more hours, but if laser does not show up or any new arguments show up, i will request this to be added

 

[Undylan]

In that case, I am afraid I cannot wait any longer.

Metal FRA again.

 

[Deceived3596]

What exactly is in contention right now?

I'm not going back like, 4 pages to argue against arguments which probably aren't even applicable anymore.

It seems like people are still wanking the living **** out of Acausality Type 4, i'll once again reiterate that Acausality Type 4 only extends to the individuals themselves, not the entire flow of time within a neutral universe. Meaning actions which occur outside of themselves aren't beholden to said different flow of time/casual system unless provably shown otherwise. And this hasn't been shown with Metal Sonic at all, it just seems like your bog-standard Type 4.

 

[omegabronic]

What exactly is in contention right now?

I'm not going back like, 4 pages to argue against arguments which probably aren't even applicable anymore.

It seems like people are still wanking the living **** out of Acausality Type 4, i'll once again reiterate that Acausality Type 4 only extends to the individuals themselves, not the entire flow of time within a neutral universe. Meaning actions which occur outside of themselves aren't beholden to said different flow of time/casual system unless provably shown otherwise. And this hasn't been shown with Metal Sonic at all, it just seems like your bog-standard Type 4.

which is why yhwach would not be able to manipulate fate and stop his death, metal kiling him is an action inside of himself, the effect of metal killing him is part of a different system of cause and effect, for it to be changed yhwach would need to change either the cause(metal's attack) or the effect(metal's attack killing him) which he can't at all, fate manipulation is nothing more than manipulating the events of the future, if yhwach can't stop the action of metal killing him, then he can't undo his death since it is an effect bound to metal, in fact he wouldn't even be able to see his own death to change it, since metal's actions are on a different system of cause and effect making it impossible for the precog to show any of his actions

 

[Hellscream]

And yet again, for yhwach the hole that's made happens within his sphere of causality which he can change you're just repeating the same thing over and over.
And yhwach negating causality manipulation either way, just like a being with acausality cause and effect don't even work on him, so please provide proof that it'd work on yhwach despite yhwach negating causality itself in the first place.

 

[omegabronic]

And yet again, for yhwach the hole that's made happens within his sphere of causality which he can change

i just explained why that doesn't work,

causality, aka cause and effect, yhwach getting a hole in his body is an effect caused by metal, so to stop said effect he has to stop the cause, which he can't here, the future where he gets harmed and killed by metal he won't be able to change since he would have to interfere with metal's cause and effect which he can't here, plus you are ignoring the fact that he will not be able to see his death at all since he can't see metal at all


nope, it is in metal's causality as well since it is the effect of his cause


yhwach dying is an effect from metal's cause, therefore to change his death he has to change the effect and/or cause that leads to it, aka metal attacking, which he can't here since he cannot change the effects caused by metal's causes

you have to address these and explain why they are wrong or why they don't stop the fate manipulation


his "sphere of causality" is irrelevant when the effect is being caused by metal's sphere of causality, he exists in a different system, so you can't change teh effects, him getting hitted is an effect, him dying is an effect, you have to direct address this

you're just repeating the same thing over and over.

because you are repeating, i am just explaining more clearly each time, and you are refusing to elaborate and address the point directly, if you can't address it, then concede

And yhwach resists causality manipulation either way

this doesn't matter since causality manipulation is not being used at all, all that is said is that his changes cannot be undone and anything he breaks will remain broken, but since metal negs the ability that grants said resistance, then this becomes irrelevant

just like a being with acausality cause and effect don't even work on him

that is not what it is said in the resistance part at all, he would have acausality if that was the case, which he doesn't, the resistance is negated since the ability he uses to have said resistance does not work on metal at all

, so please provide proof that it'd work on yhwach despite yhwach resisting causality itself in the first place.

he doesn't resist causality itself, the almighty's changes does, which is useless here since metal is not affected by it

 

[Hellscream]

You haven't explained how it doesn't work, you simply gave your own interpretation just like how im giving my interpretation you're not ellaborating further about anything you literally just repeat the same shit over and over.

Your claims about Acausality are not even accepted in the first place, so it doesn't matter at all. The only thing it currently does is give them resistance to precognition, fate manip and causality manip. Which Yhwach resists as well.

Except for that Orihime, who has causality manipulation was not able to heal the soul king, and her being unable to undo anything that yhwach has done.
Resistance to Causality Manipulation (Orihime couldn't bring back the Soul King even through her power to reject past events and causality
Prove that Sonic is able to cause yhwach's fate manipulation to not work on himself despite yhwach resisting causality manipulation itself.
If not, then concede.

 

[Hellscream]

What exactly is in contention right now?

I'm not going back like, 4 pages to argue against arguments which probably aren't even applicable anymore.

It seems like people are still wanking the living **** out of Acausality Type 4, i'll once again reiterate that Acausality Type 4 only extends to the individuals themselves, not the entire flow of time within a neutral universe. Meaning actions which occur outside of themselves aren't beholden to said different flow of time/casual system unless provably shown otherwise. And this hasn't been shown with Metal Sonic at all, it just seems like your bog-standard Type 4.

Currently Sonic can't biocopy yhwach, and yhwach can just absorb his powers.
The only argument sonic has is his AP one shot, which doesn't work either way due to yhwach's Almighty.

 

[Sniper670]

Sonic Acausality I'm not sure how that was accepted. But it's accepted so ehh.....

Yhwach can't rewrite the future to not let Sonic kill him. Once sonic has killed him, he'd have to somehow reverse it. If it works in a way that he simply gets a new copy of his body independent of the one sonic killed then Acausality is meaningless here. But since it's not clear how he rewrites the futures....

Hime doesn't have resistance to causality manipulation, so I'm not sure why it's here.

Acausality 4 is such that Sonic is working on a sort of alien causality system, so even layers of resistances on normal causality is still meaningless unless you're working on an irregular causality system.

 

[Hellscream]

Orihime has causality manipulation, she doesn't resist it yhwach and the soul king are the beings who resist it.

Tbh, i don't see why he has acausality there's no proof at all, the only thing you could say is that he has some resistance against time manipulation in that specific zone. but i'll make a thread to get that removed later on. He literally works on a normal system of causality throughout the entire game.

 

[omegabronic]

You haven't explained how it doesn't work, you simply gave your own interpretation just like how im giving my interpretation you're not ellaborating further about anything you literally just repeat the same shit over and over.

you see, if you disagree with my explanation then you have to say why it is wrong

Your claims about Acausality are not even accepted in the first place, so it doesn't matter at all.

what even is your point?

The only thing it currently does is give them resistance to precognition, fate manip and causality manip. Which Yhwach resists as well.

and you know why it gives that? because for the same reason it gives resistance, it would make yhwach unable to change the fate of his death

Except for that Orihime, who has causality manipulation was not able to heal the soul king, and her being unable to undo anything that yhwach has done.
Resistance to Causality Manipulation (Orihime couldn't bring back the Soul King even through her power to reject past events and causality
Prove that Sonic is able to cause yhwach's fate manipulation to not work on himself despite yhwach resisting causality manipulation itself.
If not, then concede.

this resistance does not matter, metal is in a whole different irregular system of cause and effect, it could be layered resistance and it wouldn't matter as explained by Sniper

Currently Sonic can't biocopy yhwach, and yhwach can just absorb his powers.

i asked about this earlier and you didn't address it, how does his steal of powers work? metal's come from his programming, how does one steal programming?

The only argument sonic has is his AP one shot, which doesn't work either way due to yhwach's Almighty.

and bfr + sealing, and the almighty is useless here as explained earlier

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

didnt grace end eons ago

 

[Sniper670]

Did it?
Can someone summarize Sonic's win conditions please.

 

[Theuser789]

didnt grace end eons ago

#METALSWEEP

 

[omegabronic]

didnt grace end eons ago

it did, but someone decided to wait, gonna wait just a few more hours and then will request this to be added

 

[omegabronic]

#METALSWEEP

metal>>all of the big three

 

[Hellscream]

metal>>all of the big three

Not really

 

[omegabronic]

Not really

cope


anyway, this has gone long enough and we waited days and hours already, gonna go to request this to be added now

edit: forget it, it was already requested

 

[Hellscream]

The almighty isn't useless, Yhwach tps infront of metal and instantly steals his powers
Yhwach simply steals any powers his opponent has, that's how it works.
And you still haven't proven that yhwach would be unable to change causality in his own sphere of influence.
It doesn't matter whether sonic has acausality or not, you need to prove that acausality negates the causality of other beings which is not how it's listed.
Simply because a character has an irregular causality does not mean that he makes the characters he affects have an irregular causality as well. Those characters still work on a system of normal causality this will never change, like i said if you say that it can make a thread and get it accepted.

Funnily enough the soul king has more reasoning to get Acausality type 4 compared to Sonic
Yhwach isn't even the strongest in his verse, and this wasn't even yhwach with sternritter abilities

 

[omegabronic]

The almighty isn't useless, Yhwach tps infront of metal and instantly steals his powers
Yhwach simply steals any powers his opponent has, that's how it works.

need more explanation than that, what kind of powers he has shown to steal? again, has he has shown the capability to steal programming?

And you still haven't proven that yhwach would be unable to change causality in his own sphere of influence.

no i don't, i explained already and you simply refuse to address my explanations

It doesn't matter whether sonic has acausality or not, you need to prove that acausality negates the causality of other beings which is not how it's listed.

it is exactly how it is listed, to stop his death, he has to stop metal's causality, which he can't

Simply because a character has an irregular causality does not mean that he makes the characters he affects have an irregular causality as well.

good strawman, when did anyone said that metal can do that?

Those characters still work on a system of normal causality this will never change, like i said if you say that it can make a thread and get it accepted.

this is simply the effects of being in a irregular causality system, you not understanding this and refusing to address the explanations is not my problem

Funnily enough the soul king has more reasoning to get Acausality type 4 compared to Sonic

is it accepted? no? so irrelevant

Yhwach isn't even the strongest in his verse, and this wasn't even yhwach with sternritter abilities

if speed is not equalized base metal destroys it all without effort

anyway, gonna stop answering now since this is now close to be done, it will be added to the profiles, bye bye

 

[That_moron2]

Also, are you calling them Sonic for short? Cuz Neo and Sonic at entirely different characters.

I AM THE REAL SONIC!

 

[omegabronic]

I AM THE REAL SONIC!

ALL LIVING THINGS KNEEL BEFORE YOUR MASTER!

 

[That_moron2]

Yhwach's almighty stomps.

 

[Hellscream]

You didn't address anything, like i said you're just repeating the same shit over and over.
You simply give me your own interpretation, and im giving you mine simple as that.
He doesn't even need to stop his death, he can literally rewrite the future even when he's already dead for the billionth time.
Yhwach was an incorporeal mass when he was killed and instantly absorbed aizen later on.
Yhwach isn't even dead in the series, they simply sealed him when the almighty was turned off and turned him into the lichpin of existence.
Prove that Sonic can affect yhwach and kill him in an infinite amount of possibilities.
It's not a strawman that's literally what you're claiming fam...
Speed equalized doesn't matter fam, the almighty is passive and precognition based.