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Yhwach The Almighty regen negation

Hellscream said:
Except for the small detail, that the soul king has a better version of the almighty that Yhwach absorbed.
A few seconds of delay? How are you even using that as an argument? Aizen was literally shown to regen instantly after both attacks.
He's not shown to be regenerating AT ALL against yhwach.
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Cool, where is it stated that he has a better version of the Almighty? Sure he has more eyes inside of eyes, but that is such a minor detail to look into to try and imply that Yhwach couldn't manipulate the future before. He never states it or indicates he only now able to use the Almighty to its fullest or anything like that. Yhwach just treats the Almighty like nothing has changed with it.

Aizen tries to grab Gin's arms and fails, falls to the ground, then lets out a full scream before he starts regenerating.
Ichigo has enough time to drop down to the ground and his clothing to start breaking down before we get any indication that Aizen has been regenerating.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that Yhwach does have access to his Fate Manipulation during the period of time in which he fights Ichibe, cool. Can either of you actually prove he used his Fate Manipulation against Ichibe?, just because he has access to an ability doesn't mean he used it, that doesn't logically follow. If neither of you can prove he did, then this entire point is null and should be discarded as we lack the needed evidence to assume such a thing actually happened.
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Well, I don't think he used Fate Manipulation against Ichibe.

I didn't realize that was what we were arguing about. I thought it was just whether or not Yhwach had it all along.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Aizen tries to grab Gin's arms and fails, falls to the ground, then lets out a full scream before he starts regenerating.
Ichigo has enough time to drop down to the ground and his clothing to start breaking down before we get any indication that Aizen has been regenerating.
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Agreed. Plus Talking is a Free Action, so Aizen and Ichigo having a short conversation before Yhwach swallows up Aizen isn't proof that Aizen is totally incapable of regenerating in a particular timeframe.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Cool, where is it stated that he has a better version of the Almighty? Sure he has more eyes inside of eyes, but that is such a minor detail to look into to try and imply that Yhwach couldn't manipulate the future before. He never states it or indicates he only now able to use the Almighty to its fullest or anything like that. Yhwach just treats the Almighty like nothing has changed with it.

Aizen tries to grab Gin's arms and fails, falls to the ground, then lets out a full scream before he starts regenerating.
Ichigo has enough time to drop down to the ground and his clothing to start breaking down before we get any indication that Aizen has been regenerating.
Click to expand...
Cool, why did yhwach absorb the soul king if his almighty was on the same level on the soul king, when that's the ability that was used to create the verse?
Why would kubo go out of his way to give the soul king an extra pupil in his almighty as opposed to Yhwach?
Why would the almighty be unable to work on the soul king, if his wasn't more powerful, which is supported by the fact that he has a 4th pupil indicating that it's stronger?

Literally irrelevant, fact remains that aizen didn't regenerate against yhwach, despite the obvious way longer timespan that was shown
 
Damage3245 said:
Well, I don't think he used Fate Manipulation against Ichibe.

I didn't realize that was what we were arguing about. I thought it was just whether or not Yhwach had it all along.
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Bruh 🗿

One of Duedate's main arguments against Yhwach having regen negation is because Ichibe regenerated after being damaged by Yhwach while Yhwach was still alive, which in turn caused this entire debate we're having. Here's his comment for extra context.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that Yhwach does have access to his Fate Manipulation during the period of time in which he fights Ichibe, cool. Can either of you actually prove he used his Fate Manipulation against Ichibe?, just because he has access to an ability doesn't mean he used it, that doesn't logically follow. If neither of you can prove he did, then this entire point is null and should be discarded as we lack the needed evidence to assume such a thing actually happened.
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Cool, what indicates that he didn't use the ability that he says he has with the Almighty? What statement or showing presents your argument that Yhwach couldn't manipulate the future and as he's breaking down his power to Orihime and Ichigo he even goes to point out that just as all they can do is affect the present, all he can do is affect every future he sees. The explanation he gives, directly points towards him just manipulating the future with the Almighty.

Hellscream said:
Cool, why did yhwach absorb the soul king if his almighty was on the same level on the soul king, when that's the ability that was used to create the verse?
Why would kubo go out of his way to give the soul king an extra pupil in his almighty as opposed to Yhwach?
Why would the almighty be unable to work on the soul king, if his wasn't more powerful, which is supported by the fact that he has a 4th pupil indicating that it's stronger?

Literally irrelevant, fact remains that aizen didn't regenerate against yhwach, despite the obvious way longer timespan that was shown
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Maybe he absorbed the Soul King, so he could take everything from Reio as he says himself?
Maybe Soul King has an extra pupil cause he's the progenitor or cause his Almighty just looks different, cause even after Yhwach absorbs the Soul King he still only has three eyes not four as we see with Hashwalth's Almighty which is just Yhwach's. There isn't a lot to pick up with the eye difference that is supported by anything that happens further in the text.
 
Ok. This is going in circles rn.

1) Yhwach’s almighty did get better once he absorbed the soul king. This is a clear indication with the number of pupils given. Even before the Soul King was absorbed the number of pupils was indicative of the power like Pernida having 2 pupils, Yhwach has 3 with the regular Almighty, and Reio has 4. So Yhwach gaining more pupils after absorbing the Soul King who had a better version of the Almighty than Yhwach did I think is a very big indicator of the ability improving. Although I will say I’m fairly certain Yhwach always had the ability to alter the future via the Almighty though I could be wrong on that.

2) This whole series of events happens in the span of like half of a chapter. Aizen gets stabbed and for the rest of the chapter he’s not shown to regenerate however it’s noted that he probability did recover later on. This would be limited regeneration negation at best right however there may be some contention to this like the aforementioned Ichibei moment however Deceived has brought up a good counter to this.

Although Yhwach’s regen negation may come more into question because he did state that Orihime could’ve healed Ichigo’s wounds which shouldn’t be the case since he was hitting him with the almighty.



So that may be something that needs clarification over.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Cool, what indicates that he didn't use the ability that he says he has with the Almighty? What statement or showing presents your argument that Yhwach couldn't manipulate the future and as he's breaking down his power to Orihime and Ichigo he even goes to point out that just as all they can do is affect the present, all he can do is affect every future he sees. The explanation he gives, directly points towards him just manipulating the future with the Almighty.


Maybe he absorbed the Soul King, so he could take everything from Reio as he says himself?
Maybe Soul King has an extra pupil cause he's the progenitor or cause his Almighty just looks different, cause even after Yhwach absorbs the Soul King he still only has three eyes not four as we see with Hashwalth's Almighty which is just Yhwach's. There isn't a lot to pick up with the eye difference that is supported by anything that happens further in the text.
Click to expand...
?
What are you even saying
Jugram literally said that his almighty isn't as strong as Yhwach
 
Maitreya said:
Although Yhwach’s regen negation may come more into question because he did state that Orihime could’ve healed Ichigo’s wounds which shouldn’t be the case since he was hitting him with the almighty.




So that may be something that needs clarification over.
Click to expand...

Ichigo is fine because Tsukishima changed his past to fix his bankai, so now Ichigo also had a future where he could be healed. That's why I never brought that up cause it neither supports nor detracts from either sides argument.
 
Damage3245 said:
We should avoid speculating on the amount of eyes having any bearing on the specific abilities of the Almighty as we have not been told this.
Click to expand...
Except for that the amount of pupils have been shown to have a direct indication of being stronger.
It's not speculation at all.

Yhwach couldn't foresee the future of the soul king, while the soul king was able to foresee his.
Like i said, yhwach would not have needed to absorb the soul king if his almighty was just as strong.
The fact that soul king had more pupils than yhwach, and yhwach gaining more of them after absorbing him and explaining a new set of powers for the almighty supports this fact.

There is no headcanon at all.
 
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Hellscream said:
does this look like 3 pupils to you?

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com
Click to expand...
No, that looks like one pupil per eye. Which doesn't support your argument cause Reio wasn't covered in eyes neither was mimihagi. There is no hard evidence that the number of eyes or pupils points towards one Almighty being weaker than the other, and the circumstantial evidence provided doesn't even hint at it. Reio didn't even have all those eyes even at the height of his power.
 
Duedate8898 said:
No, that looks like one pupil per eye. Which doesn't support your argument cause Reio wasn't covered in eyes neither was mimihagi. There is no hard evidence that the number of eyes or pupils points towards one Almighty being weaker than the other, and the circumstantial evidence provided doesn't even hint at it. Reio didn't even have all those eyes even at the height of his power.
Click to expand...
Except for that there are instances where he has more than one pupil in his eyes, and having 20 of them.
There is hard evidence, none of your have provided even a single proper counter argument and are simply calling this headcanon.

The fact remains that the soul king created the verse with the almighty, If his almighty was as good as the soul king, he would never have needed to absorb him.
Another fact is that his almighty didn't even work on him.
Another fact we know is that Yhwach didn't have fate manipulation before he absorbed the soul king, and before he received additional pupils.
Another fact is that jugram never used the fate manipulation aspect, while he has the same amount of pupils as Yhwach before he absorbed the soul king.
Another fact is that Yhwach gained his fate manipulation after absorbing the soul king, which in turn gave him yet again more pupils and eyes thus indicating an increase in strength.

I don't see how this is even being argued at all at this point
 
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I come back and y'all still debating about this pupil bullshit, this quite literally doesn't matter to what's being proposed in the OP, the amount of pupils, the almighty becoming stronger after Yhwach absorbed the Soul King etc. All of it doesn't matter, it holds no bearing on if Yhwach should have regen negation or not, stop derailing the thread, all of you.

I'll respond to Duedate's argument later.
 
Damage3245 said:
Just in case anyone thinks that it is questionable writing to present Yhwach's Almighty to the audience and then reveal 60+ chapters down the line that the Almighty actually has a different true power... The simple explanation is that Kubo is bad at writing and it's not meant to be taken that the Almighty changed in-universe at some point. Kubo retconning stuff like this is just par for the course. (Though I take this one fine since it is meant to be a reveal of new information and he did give a couple chapters foreshadowing at least)
Click to expand...
Or he is just saying that the true power of the Almighty which he obtained from his father’s Almighty is that.
 
Damage3245 said:
Because what you're arguing isn't factual.

Mimihagi wasn't affected by Yhwach's Almighty precognition and he had fewer pupils than Yhwach.
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that the almighty isn't the source of mimihagi's power?
It's the fact that he governs stillness itself, which Yhwach absorbed.
You already know that each body part of the soul king represents a different power / aspect of controlling reality.
And Yhwach absorbed both him and the soul king.
The notable ability of the soul king himself which obviously comes from his eyes that he still had is the almighty, which Yhwach absorbed..
And the fact that he gained his fate manipulation after absorbing the soul king.
We know the soul king used the almighty to create the verse through the LN, which is why Yhwach has to absorb him for his plans.
So we know that the almighty got stronger after absorbing the soul king, and we know that it received another aspect to it's power which is fate manipulation.
The said fate manipulation was able to neg aizen's regen.
It's clear cut regen negation.

With everything that's shown and stated you can say that it's factual.
 
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I remember this scene, actually, not sure if Aizen could regenerate this or could not. This is a scenario I assume?
 
ImmortalDread said:
I remember this scene, actually, not sure if Aizen could regenerate this or could not. This is a scenario I assume?
Click to expand...
He never regenerated in his fight with Yhwach, while in his previous battles he literally always instantly regenerated.
 
Im getting tired of this argument that's literally irrelevant.

Yes there was more than enough screentime. Aizen was shown to regen literally 1-2 panels later

would you look at that

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com

He's regenerating 2 panels further????!!
 
I don't agree, the whole thing takes place in a short time span and probably Aizen's regen simply didn't activate yet
 
Aizen's arm is removed in chapter 683

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com
gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com

Next chapter

gyazo.com

Gyazo

gyazo.com gyazo.com
Still hasn't healed.

In any scenario where aizen healed, it was instantaneous.

There was more than enough time.
This isn't an argument
 
Blallooo said:
I don't agree, the whole thing takes place in a short time span and probably Aizen's regen simply didn't activate yet
Click to expand...
Yeah, no that's not an argument sadly enough his regen was shown to kick in instantly.
He had multiple dialogues with Yhwach and ichigo and never regenerated.
 


The dialogue between aizen and Yhwach was shown in the anime, the anime is supervised by kubo himself
Yhwach stated that it would take too long to kill aizen due to him being fused with the hogyoku, take that as you will.
Yhwach shit on him EoS.
Simple enough right?
 
Unless we have proof that Aizen was incapable of regenerating, I'm against giving regeneration negation.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This is not his burden.
Click to expand...
It is actually if that's what you're claiming, then back it up. But No worries, let me answer that question instead.
He wasn't shown to regenerate.

The burden of proof is on all of you to prove the reason why aizen didn't instantly regenerate after being ****** up by the almighty.
And anything being affected by the almighty being unable to be undone.
Especially when it's been shown on screen multiple times that his regen is instant.
 
Possible Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly - Shun Shun Rikka could've possibly erased the Hogyoku from existence and left it completely destroyed[4], despite the fact it possesses the same level of regeneration as Sosuke Aizen)

Causality Manipulation Negation (Yhwach can rewrite the future so that everything he destroys will remain broken in all possible futures, even with Orihime's ability to reject past events and causality she was unable to repair Tensa Zangetsu after it was broken by Yhwach[47]),

Orihime probably has a Mid Godly Regeneration Negition. Causality Manipulation can reject the cause-effect situation where Aizen is regen .

All futures that Orihime rejects Causation are destroyed by Yhwach.

With these contexts all futures in which Aizen is regen can be destroyed by Yhwach.

Yhwach's Possibly Possession of Mid Godly Regeneration Negition is supported by the fact that Yhwach states that he can kill Aizen over a long period of time.

In conclusion, I think Yhwach should have Probably Mid Godly Regeneration Negition with the situation mentioned in OP.

However, if the Staff think that the arguments are not sufficient for "Probably", there is no reason to continue this discussion.
 
Damage3245 said:
It's not up to me to prove that to you.
Click to expand...
Yeah it is since you're claiming that he regenerated, while he was never shown to regenerate.

Show me a panel where he regenerated.

I provided proof that aizen regenerated literally 2 panels later.
And i provided proof that aizen didn't regen In his fight with yhwach despite the timeframe being larger, and aizen having multiple dialogues with both Yhwach and aizen.
 
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