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Using the First Fairy Tail Movie as Canon Material + Potential Fairy Tail God Tier AP Upgrades?

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But given the context of the Ignia's statement he doesn't have a reason to lie about his own power here.
 
Did the movie really say that the Phoenix is comparable to Zeref and Acnologia in terms of a threat, because in that case, I might lean more towards scaling them to the Phoenix if it's directly stated that they're comparable
 
Generally as far as I've seen we hardly ever scale characters to the suicide moves of others, that is the same here.

It also doesn't help that the result from the calc is a far cry from what we've seen the best in the series actually do, we have Acnologia and everyone comparable to him tentatively scaled to etherion because of the numerous statements and multipliers. But this is above even that, I just can't in good conscience agree with upgrading the god tiers based on this.
 
Alright, there's just one thing I wanna ask, what are the arguments against, so far it seems like one of the main arguments Is that the feat is too high and we're afraid of making the God Tiers stronger, which always tends to happen with Fairy Tail, if it's the God Tiers, then it's fine and isn't an Outlier, I'm still neutral, I'm gonna need more of an argument against, other than, the feat is too strong, which seems like the major reasoning, why shouldn't we scale FH Zeref and Acnologia to the Phoenix?

I'm not trying to be rude, I just want actual reasoning other than "I disagree"
 
If the comparison says the suicide attack = someone else then there isn't much issue for scaling them. As for it being above everything else, Etherion is far above anything else so far but we still scale them so this makes no difference here.

@Beast

FH Zeref wasn't even a thing at the time either so it has to be base.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
Generally as far as I've seen we hardly ever scale characters to the suicide moves of others, that is the same here.

It also doesn't help that the result from the calc is a far cry from what we've seen the best in the series actually do, we have Acnologia and everyone comparable to him tentatively scaled to etherion because of the numerous statements and multipliers. But this is above even that, I just can't in good conscience agree with upgrading the god tiers based on this.
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It depends on the situation. The only reason I'm agreeing to it is because we have a direct statement that the attack is comparable to Zeref. Do any of the suicide move characters that you're thinking of have statements that say their power is comparable to other characters?

I don't get this. I mean, we have the statements and the multipliers granting them their tiers. We have Merc's unquantifiable ocean lifting feat. We have Irene being able to change the geography of a continent. We have statements from Ignia and Acnologia about destroying the world. I just really dislike the idea of "They've never been shown destroying this so we can't scale them from the people that have more blatant examples of destruction". Like, did you expect Acnologia to destroy most of FT's verse's world on screen? There isn't any other way to get higher tiers at this point.
 
My issue is that it's a suicide, aka something the Phoenix itself cannot survive. If this feat was just a basic attack from the metal bird I'd have little issue, but this isn't the case.
 
It was kinda've a basic attack, it just made a fireball and fired it into the air almost immediately, and if Natsu didn't shove the arrow down the Bird's Face then the entire surface would be f*cked
 
But its the very suicide attack which is compared to Zeref's power and said to be comparable. If you feel like it being a "suicide attack" and thus should not scale, Zeref can use "suicide attacks" too. Nothing supports it not scaling.
 
This feat doesn't contradict anything, I mean there's no feat that prevents the God Tiers from being higher, at the very least this should scale to FH Zeref, Acnologia, and the Dragon Gods, as they are stated to be the biggest threats in the verse

It seems like people are just afraid of making the characters stronger
 
Look, I've said my bit and will ultimately stand by it.

I don't really like back and forth's as such; I've said my bit if ppl agree with me and this doesn't go through then so be it, if ppl disagree with me and this goes through then so be it. But I really don't want to be pulled into a long conversation so whatever the consensus I'll ultimately accept it
 
Alright, but I want to try another example to see if it changes your mind.

This would be like saying that a statement about someone being comparable to a nuke's power doesn't mean the person is 7-A because the nuke exploding is a suicide attack for the nuke.
 
I think at the very least, we can scale Fairy Heart Zeref and everyone above him to the feat, since they sare considered the biggest threats and we have a literal statement saying that the Phoenix is comparable to them

That is, unless I hear a good counter argument
 
Just showing a character is not even close to enough evidence in order to make the movie canon.

Take it from me, it took me nearly 3 years to convince the wiki that the Bleach movie "Memories of Nobody" when we had images in the manga showing Memories of Nobody scenes.

You need several key evidences:

1) Prove it fits in the timeline with no contradictions.

2) Author statement saying it's canon or connecting it.

3) Manga has actual references to it, 1 is not enough to the Wiki.
 
I'm back. I agree with IMade about the requirements to be considered canon. I even specified that the character's apparition doesn't make the movie canon but the character. What it is needed it's the event of the movie referenced in the canon content.
 
1) Hiro wrote the story and worked with the movie's production

2) It fits in the time right between the GMG and Tartaros Arc, and there are no inconsistencies with that, the guild is back in Magnolia and the characters still have the same scaling if power

3) There is a canon side story chapter that happens right before the movie

4) There are 2 mentions of Eclair and another character from the movie in the canon manga

This seems canon to me
 
1) Hiro writing the story and working on the movie production means nothing. Nearly the majority of the Bleach, Naruto and One Piece movies had Kubo, Kishi and Oda do this as well. They aren't canon because of this.

2) That's fine.

3) That's not canon. Bleach and Naruto movies had side story chapters as well, but these are promotional pieces.

4) The characters can be referenced as canon, this does not make the events canon. Similar to Bleach's movie, the setting of the movie was accepted as canon since it was referenced in the canon manga, but this did not make the events of the movie canon.


This is not even close to enough evidence.
 
Wow, you really love to ruin everything except for Bleach don't you 😂

I still believe the movie is canon, but I'll see what the others think
 
4. Eclair's mention in the manga was when Natsu went to Beta Heaven and counted her as one of his friends who lost their lives in battle. Is this enough of a connection (Him meeting Eclair and then the implied events leading to her death) or is it assumed that canonically he met this person who is the same person in the movie and she just happened to die off screen and have a mental impact big enough to be in his Beta Heaven?
 
Also for

"You need several key evidences:

1) Prove it fits in the timeline with no contradictions.

2) Author statement saying it's canon or connecting it.

3) Manga has actual references to it, 1 is not enough to the Wiki."

2 and 3 seem unnecessary that you need both. So if a manga had several references to the events that happened within the movie but no WoG statement then it wouldn't be canon?
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
4. Eclair's mention in the manga was when Natsu went to Beta Heaven and counted her as one of his friends who lost their lives in battle. Is this enough of a connection (Him meeting Eclair and then the implied events leading to her death) or is it assumed that canonically he met this person who is the same person in the movie and she just happened to die off screen and have a mental impact big enough to be in his Beta Heaven?
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The latter actually seems harder to prove and requires far more leaps in logic for the charater to actually exist in this instance rather than just saying the actual events are canon themselves.
 
I agree with IMade. You need more evidence unless it was just a double standard of course.

This also isn't the same as Bleach like at all...if it was there wouldn't have had to be like 5 threads on it.
 
The Manga has 4 references to Phoenix Priestess, Quatro Cerberus talk about Geese the bandit, who first appeared in the movie, Eclair appears in Fairy Tail Zero, walking around 100 years prior to the series, just like in the movie, she appears in a side chapter that was written by Hiro (Most if not all of Hiro's Side Chapters are Canon) and lastly, she appears in Natsu's Beta Heaven, proving that Natsu knows Eclair and that she died, which acknowledges the events of the movie as canon, also the movie fits perfectly timeline wise between the GMG arc and Tartaros arc, there was a decent amount of time between the arcs where it could have absolutely happened

That's solid enough for canonicity, not to mention the author of the manga wrote the story of the movie, plus it's also somewhat backed by the 2nd movie being canon as well

Saying this movie is not canon is just dumb, not to mention that Bleach's movie has nothing to do with this, stop using that as an argument
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
4. Eclair's mention in the manga was when Natsu went to Beta Heaven and counted her as one of his friends who lost their lives in battle. Is this enough of a connection (Him meeting Eclair and then the implied events leading to her death) or is it assumed that canonically he met this person who is the same person in the movie and she just happened to die off screen and have a mental impact big enough to be in his Beta Heaven?
Click to expand...
That's not evidence, it makes the character but not the events. This is similar to why Admins denied the first Bleach movie canon thread, Ichigo saying he had been to a unique movie only place, this made the setting canon but not the events despite Ichigo stating he was there.

And yes, the multiple points are needed, they were set by DDM, Ant and Matthew.
 
Alright, then what about Eclair also being shown in Fairy Tail Zero (Fairy Tail's prequel)?


Edit: The reason that matters is because Eclair is immortal in the movie so her being around back then in the manga matches with the movie.
 
Natsu knowing Eclair and that she died directly shows that the movie is canon, meeting Eclair and seeing that she died is 2 direct events from the movie in the manga, are you saying that Natsu knows Eclair and that she died in a way completely unrelated to the movie, this is so dumb, plus I showed multiple references of her being the manga before, so yeah, there's no reason why the movie can't be canon

Once again, stop bringing up Bleach, this is a completely different series and situation
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Alright, then what about Eclair also being shown in Fairy Tail Zero (Fairy Tail's prequel)?

Edit: The reason that matters is because Eclair is immortal in the movie so her being around back then in the manga matches with the movie.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that Eclair only became immortal due to the pheonix's blood meaning that the Pheonix must also exist which would lead to the events of the movie making all relevant parties to this feat present in the Fairy tail Canon.
 
Ok... that's a little rude, and I'm not afraid, I'm fine with this upgrade not coming through, I just disagree with Imade, I swear some of these people come to these threads without ever participating on a Fairy Tail thread from ever before and come to just say they disagree with the upgrade cause they don't like Fairy Tail, I swear to god, they randomly show up and say, I agree with Imade, it happens everytime

Can you give your own argument as to why you disagree with accepting the movie as canon, instead of just saying you agree with Imade, it might make your vote actually have validity
 
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