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oh ok
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Fairy Tail: Neo Eclipse, Two Years Later
- Thread starter CloverDragon03
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Alls well that ends well… this thread definitely opened my eyes to a lot stuff that’s for sure.
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Absolutely. I've been waiting for about a year and a half for Zeref to be promoted on the wiki.
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- Thread starter
- #165
If this were to be accepted, Zeref’s Fairy Heart Form’s key would look like this:
“5-A, Low 2-C with Neo Eclipse”
Zeref himself doesn’t scale to it with his normal attacks. As for when this will be applied, it needs to be at least 48 hours since the thread’s creation, and with enough consensus to apply it
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,895
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You must have missed them, Beni tagged it above though. Check the FAQ and the one beni tagged is from the universe page.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,895
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Also the entire timeline is not getting destroyed that is just ignoring contexts for the sake of an upgrade.
He said this world will crumble away as in getting reversed 400 years into the past, the current world will cease to exist, so I am failing to understand how you guys are claiming the whole timeline is getting destroyed and a new one is getting created instead.
He said this world will crumble away as in getting reversed 400 years into the past, the current world will cease to exist, so I am failing to understand how you guys are claiming the whole timeline is getting destroyed and a new one is getting created instead.
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No. Zeref destroys the existing universe and creates a new universe with space-time. The universe he creates will start 400 years behind.
Zeinx1
He/Him- 1,005
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thank you for informing
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- Thread starter
- #171
I’ve read the series several times over and combed through the scans. He straight up says the entire world will crumble away and that his new world will take its place. He even makes an analogy of how the Fairy Tail doors that saw many departures and returns would now see the end and beginning of worlds.
Calling this “ignoring context for the sake of an upgrade” is pretty disingenuous
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Pein, can you not treat every single person who's participated here as though they have hot air between their ears?
None of the staff who've responded are wilfully blind to the point of not understanding what they're approving nor is Clover of all people unknowledgeable about Fairy Tail.
You've made your arguments and so far, almost no one currently agreed with them. That's all there is to it, so stop acting like it's some scheme on their part.
None of the staff who've responded are wilfully blind to the point of not understanding what they're approving nor is Clover of all people unknowledgeable about Fairy Tail.
You've made your arguments and so far, almost no one currently agreed with them. That's all there is to it, so stop acting like it's some scheme on their part.
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I’m not taking that as the entire timeline. The “world” could just be what was built from that 400yr mark up, making it the “world they know and love”, not “the world in the far past, present, future, and all to exist”
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- Thread starter
- #174
I’ve got my doubts on that since Zeref goes as far as to say that his new world will take the old one’s place, but fair enough I suppose
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Yeah, nah. You are inserting a lot of info that's not referred to (at least in the scans I've been given). Please provide citation, as the wording seems very clear to me that he's straight up deleting the old world to apply his new one.
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no, the resetting of time is a context zeref resets time and says that he will destroy this universe as he passes into the universe that belongs to the reset time scans here
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- Thread starter
- #177
I've also updated my blog for more clarity on the Low 2-C stuff (Zeref erasing the entirety of the old world and creating a new one)
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,895
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Never treated anyone like that, I was referring to the OP since he is extremely knowledgeable in FT as far I know. And not everyone else, anyway I will like to give my arguments for it in a few hours.
I certainly will do that, I was busy all through yesterday but I will be typing it out now, since my remarks are not helpful without any argument or scan.
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- Thread starter
- #180
No, it scales only to Neo Eclipse, not to any of Zeref's stats in his Fairy Heart Form, much less his base form
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Shall be waiting then, and advise the others to not close the thread until these issues are resolved.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,895
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Here is my post providing context to Neo Eclipse so please if you or anyone can tag staffs that have commented here that would be great.
I tried to keep it as short as possible for easy evaluation and to point with all the scans, since it is not a complicated event.
Here is the OP claims, if I am wrong they are free to correct me.
1. Neo Eclipse erases the timeline totally
2. Neo Eclipse creates another timeline from the scratch in its place.
Since that is what would qualify for low 2-C and anything less would be High 3-A.
Here is my context to it as a knowledgeable member.
1. Neo Eclipse is a Time reset(1), that works by rewinding time back to a desired period(2).
2. Zeref wish to rewind time back 400 years into the past(2).
2.5. By stepping through the Neo Eclipse door back 400 years and the whole 400 years would cease to exist and then he gets to start afresh.
3. He wants to go back because he is immortal and he hates the fact that he cannot die. So he plans to go back to who he used to be
4. He is scared of what Acnologia will do to him since he cannot die, so he wishes to go back to before Acnologia became strong so he can kill him.
5. The entire timeline is not getting erased, in fact no timeline is getting erased, zeref just wants to rewinds time(2) back through Neo Eclipse to before he became immortal(1) and relive his life again. And live a life without any mistakes, since he now has memories of what will happen.
6. He indeed say things like "this world is over" but that is in context of what he has said before which is him rewinding time, which in turn would undo everything for the past 400 years and everyone who exists right now would obviously never have existed(1).
In conclusion, no timeline is getting erased or getting created, it is just Zeref rewinding time back to undo what happened and have a fresh start in life, which includes killing Acnologia and never becoming an immortal.
So in reality all he is doing is turning back time 400 years and we do not grant tiers for such hax, whether you turn back time 1 sec or 1 million years, it is done through hax so it is not tierable.
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I have answered what you said many times. Zeref resets time with Neo Eclipse. He mentions that the existing universe will disappear as he moves to the universe where he resets time. The new universe is 400 years old. It will start from the past and Zeref will have time to realize his goals, so Zeref erases 400 years of time and destroys the universe and starts living in his new universe 400 years in advance.
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- Thread starter
- #184
I’ll get to this in a few hours. About to head out atm
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In my opinion, not solidly, I still don't think he's nuking the entire timeline in it's entirety. And I still don't think 400 years worth is comparable to the entirety of a timeline but sure if we still count that as an unquantifiable infinite snapshot count then it is what it is (which is Low 2-C apparently). I'm going to work in a bit, but my stance still leans towards possibly, but I'm pretty sure you've got enough support for Low 2-C regardless of my stance, unless they change their minds.
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why do you think it's not suitable for low 2c?
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"I will not go to the past or the future, I will remake myself."
"This world will crumble away and my new world will take its place" "And Fairy Tail's doors will be both the beginning and the end of worlds"
Those two pieces are the most important in the lot. That sounds to me he's not really rewinding time, but literally bringing the past into the present, replacing the current world with the one from the past. So the timeline in it's current state gets destroyed, and will continue on from the moment of whatever happened 400 years in the past. Honestly, this has solidified my stance.
My vote remains unchanged.
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My only real issue with Low 2-C is that Neo Eclipse isn't effecting the future, just the past and the present.
The 400 years of time being reset is also odd, but that shouldn't do much considering 400 was just the time that Zeref wanted to arrive at. So he's "rewinding time." most certainly but in a very unconventional way.
The 400 years of time being reset is also odd, but that shouldn't do much considering 400 was just the time that Zeref wanted to arrive at. So he's "rewinding time." most certainly but in a very unconventional way.
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- Thread starter
- #189
To give an update, I should be home within an hour or so. I’ll give a full response then, though I believe Lephyr has already echoed at least some of my sentiments
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I do think this is still moreso ED than it is AP given that Neo Eclipse isn't an "attack." nor can it be used on a single individual, rather it effects the environment / reality itself.
It's the sake thing for Pucci who effects the universe itself with a reset. It's not an attack so it's labeled as ED which makes the most sense here imo.
It's the sake thing for Pucci who effects the universe itself with a reset. It's not an attack so it's labeled as ED which makes the most sense here imo.
PrinceofPein
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That is like I said taking the statements without the contexts in which they are made.
I mean he literally said I am going back 400 years in the past to before I met you so I can right my wrongs.
That is not destroying a timeline, it is still a time rewind.
Also, if he rewinds back 400 years, it is obvious the current world will cease to exist and he begins from 400 years.
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I would compare it more with Bites the Dust myself, a "rewind" that's achieved by literally killing time. But yeah, even the supporters have said this won't scale to anything except the technique itself. Which is a-ok.
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My friend, I'm trying to tell you that zeref does not erase 400 years of time. The current universe will be destroyed through neo eclipse and honour will create a new timeline starting 400 years ago and will fulfil its goals in the newly created universe.
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@CloverDragon03 If pein says he's joining low-2c, will that now be in the profile?
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His vote doesn’t matter more than ours. This already has enough staff approval to be applied. So exercise patience pls.
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- Thread starter
- #196
So my family and I ended up going out to eat immediately, so it’s gonna take longer for me to get my response out than expected. Thanks for your patience
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I'm fine with Low 2-C
Pain seems to be equating Zeref saying "I'm going to return to my original self, 400 years ago" as him saying he's achieving this time reversal through traveling back in time, similarly to how most common time traveling occurs in fiction. The issue with this is it's a complete presumption based on a commonality. While this within a vacuum isn't incorrect; as abiding by common occurrences when evidence is vague or without description is logically supported. We aren't discussing an event within a vacuum, we have explicit statements by Zeref that he isn't traveling back in time per se. He's rather resetting the current world's structure and recreating it back 400 years into the past, causing the destruction of the current world's structure. This by definition would affect the entire timeline as he's literally destroying and then recreating the timeline again, but just having his placement in that timeline 400 years in the past; when he didn't have his immortality and was with his family.
It's with these pretty explicit statements that I don't find Pain's argument all that convincing and why I find myself agreeing with Low 2-C.
Pain seems to be equating Zeref saying "I'm going to return to my original self, 400 years ago" as him saying he's achieving this time reversal through traveling back in time, similarly to how most common time traveling occurs in fiction. The issue with this is it's a complete presumption based on a commonality. While this within a vacuum isn't incorrect; as abiding by common occurrences when evidence is vague or without description is logically supported. We aren't discussing an event within a vacuum, we have explicit statements by Zeref that he isn't traveling back in time per se. He's rather resetting the current world's structure and recreating it back 400 years into the past, causing the destruction of the current world's structure. This by definition would affect the entire timeline as he's literally destroying and then recreating the timeline again, but just having his placement in that timeline 400 years in the past; when he didn't have his immortality and was with his family.
It's with these pretty explicit statements that I don't find Pain's argument all that convincing and why I find myself agreeing with Low 2-C.
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Pretty much my conclusion as well, indeed
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- Thread starter
- #199
Alright, I'm back. So, to address Pein's arguments, I'm honestly gonna be parroting a chunk of what was said by Lephyr and Deceived, as they took the words right outta my mouth. But, I promised a response, so here goes.
Your first point in particular just supports my interpretation, as you show that it's a time reset. The part about "rewinding time" is never even said at all, it's something you claimed without it being noted at all in verse.
Simply put, your extrapolation of this is far less supported compared to mine.
In particular, you say "He indeed say things like "this world is over" but that is in context of what he has said before which is him rewinding time", but not once does Zeref say he's rewinding time. You said that.
As such, it should be tiered, and it should be Low 2-C
Grouping these together, because they all talk about how Zeref wants to "go back" and such, just explaining the different reasons why he wants to. Zeref saying this world will be destroyed with a new one taking its place, and Zeref saying he'll go back to 400 years ago aren't mutually exclusive things. He's destroying the current world, replacing it with his new one, and that new one goes up to 400 years in the past. Not a single scan you've sent has Zeref claiming he's rewinding time, whereas multiple scans show him saying the old world will be destroyed and that a new one will take its place.
Your first point in particular just supports my interpretation, as you show that it's a time reset. The part about "rewinding time" is never even said at all, it's something you claimed without it being noted at all in verse.
Simply put, your extrapolation of this is far less supported compared to mine.
These last two points are largely just asserting your position as true without proper support. No scan indicates he's rewinding time, and a lot of this is honestly just fluff. Yes, it contextualizes why he wants to do what he's doing, but that doesn't change what he's doing.
In particular, you say "He indeed say things like "this world is over" but that is in context of what he has said before which is him rewinding time", but not once does Zeref say he's rewinding time. You said that.
To conclude this, I appreciate the context of explaining why he wants to do this, but none of it actually changes what he's doing. Your assertion that he's just rewinding time is not supported in the series itself, as not once is this even remotely stated, whereas it's repeatedly stated that the old world is being destroyed and that a new one will take its place.
As such, it should be tiered, and it should be Low 2-C
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I already gave my reasons, I'm not repeating myself. Also, I never said it was unsuitable, otherwise I wouldn't have agreed with a possibly rating. My opinion just differs from the others.
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