Time Travel is not a requirement for Immeasurable. It never has been and shouldn't be, because moving outside of time is enough to qualify. The page itself literally states:
"Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, traveling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case."
Time Travel via Speed is a finicky thing that is evaluated as it is on a case by case basis. Multiple characters have Immeasurable without using speed for time travel because of this.
If we did use Time Travel via Speed as the main requirement, then characters who are unbound by time (and should thus logically be Immeasurable) lose the speed rating, and a character who goes at Relativistic speeds around the earth to Time Travel gains it, somehow.
It's all case by case. I feel like changing the goalpost here would just overcomplicate things and make them far worsI'm
I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote the speed page to me. I've read it thoroughly and even quoted it in this very thread. And the section you describe isn't relevant vs what we're discussing here.
I'm not suggesting anything about characters using specific travel techniques or Rel - low FTL time travelling tropes from the 70s such as Reeves Superman getting immeasurable speed ratings, that's clear that it isn't at play here.
There may be several characters that are indeed incorrectly ranked at immeasurable speed for not really adhering to how immeasurable is outlined: Which is seeing the timestream as a line that can be traversed left and right easily.
Maybe the immeasurable rating parameters need to be tweaked or an additional rating between Infinite and Immeasurable needs to be created to accommodate those, but I digress, that's not the point of this thread.
My overall question, and hopefully someone can help me out here (civilly) if I'm not getting something; is why we're automatically assuming their definition of 'surpassing a dimensional time stream' is meant to be as strict and specific as ours? Don't get me wrong, if the sentence of ("
As a demon lord with more power than his hunters, his speed is faster than theirs, allowing him to travel and bypass the dimensional axis of the time stream") was by itself, that would very undoubtedly meet the requirements, without question.
But for me a couple things hamper that.
1.) If Pluto was a background lore character, that would have made the statement even stronger. But he isn't. He's an integral, interactive boss fight that moves the story along A -> B. So the need to demonstrate 'immeasurableness'...becomes even more important because its so easy to have anti-feats against it in a linear story telling format.
2.) More importantly, it's the second part of the statement that makes it questionable to me that they mean surpassing the time stream the same as how we define it: "
As a demon lord with more power than his hunters, his speed is faster than theirs, allowing him to travel and bypass the dimensional axis of the time stream, giving the illusion of teleportation to the naked eye."
That is reminiscent of our own page saying
"For more information, Infinite speed characters are so fast, they move faster than time can flow at any period. They perceive every finite speed character as completely frozen and it takes 0 time to react to any finite speed object or travel finite speed distance. They can also perform and infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow."
The latter half of the sentence tells you what the application of his time stream bypassing speed looks like; its fast enough that he can move X distance in 0 time in the present, which comes across as teleporting to the naked eye of those slower than Pluto.
If it said in addition to looking like he's teleporting to slower characters, that he can maneuver
around time, then yeah it would be undeniable. But for right now that additional half of the sentence seems to say moving around at 0 time in the present is enough for the developer's definition of 'surpassing the time stream', and not necessarily our own definition.
That's exactly what seemed to happen when Pluto blitzed base Dante by stabbing him with Rebellion, it looked like he teleported, when really he just charged forward in a literal instant in present time. Then when Dante went DT he was able to go more blow for blow with Pluto. And DT is just a straightforward multiplier. It seems to me that DMC could easily just be higher and higher levels of infinite speed in the 2C levels.
If the immeasurable rating doesn't actually require a character to demonstrate the ability to move even a second or two left or right of the present time, then I'm struggling to see how its functionally any different than infinite speed? Hopefully someone can help out here.
In the end I believe the game is still ongoing with updates so the answers may work itself out before long.
