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Turnabout Devil May Cry

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CrimsonStarFallen said:
Just as an aside, "transcending the dimensional axis of the timestream" is likely refering to going beyond the 1st temporal dimension, as opposed to just some blanked "higher dimensional movement", meaning at face value it means he's moving on a extra temporal dimension. Huge Immeasurable feat.

I agree with the thread.

Also, out of curiosity, what's that infinite speed feat?
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It comes from Ripper

裂者 宅是恶魔中存在的公多措人种族之一,在成斗中移动逮 度非常快,肉眼看不到宅的动作。 宅能形在不到一天的 时间内覆蓋整介冥界的毎一寸土地,唯一的目的就是导 井系死宅的猫物

Ripper

It is one of the many hunter races that exist among the demons and moves very fast in battle.
It moves so fast in battle that its movements are invisible to the naked eye. It can cover every inch of the Underworld in less than a day
It can cover every inch of the Underworld in less than a day, with the sole purpose of finding and killing its prey.
Its only purpose is to find and kill its prey.

Said quote is from a very specific type of hunter under Pluto's command called Ripper, they can travel the Underworld itself in less than a day
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While Hunter Demons are common, the Rippers are special speedsters working for Pluto, and they can cover the DW which is Infinite in size. Aside from that, Pluto's statement also directly says he is faster than his hunters
 
KLOL506 said:
I've contacted Ultima just in case. Apparently he has seen the DMC immeasurable speed stuff before and himself was astounded by the blatantness of the feat's meaning after one of the DMC supporters sent him the scan well ahead of this thread. But still, getting his opinion once more wouldn't hurt.
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Pretty much, yeah. The statement is pretty damn blatant. I agree.
 
I can't add much to the discussion besides saying I agree with the entire CRT. Pluto's description saying he's faster than his Ripper minions who move at infinite speeds just solidified his speed by a ton.
 
KLOL506 said:
NOW WE HAVE DANTE GOING BACK IN TIME TO SAVE HIS MOM
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"Remember when your home was invaded by demons, and your mother died right as she ran to get Vergil? It was me Dante. I brought the demons to her at super speeds, so it would seem like she was found the moment she left!"

maxresdefault.jpg
 
ShivaShakti said:
"Remember when your home was invaded by demons, and your mother died right as she ran to get Vergil? It was me Dante. I brought the demons to her at super speeds, so it would seem like she was found the moment she left!"

maxresdefault.jpg
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Next stop: 5-D timestop bullshittery
 
DaReaperMan said:
Funnily enough nobody has a 1-A NP besides the shikis lol
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I know, but these days Tier 1 is so convoluted that I couldn't even care less about FGO other than the good R18+ stuff people pump out about it on Twitter
 
Alright, finally taken a good look through all of this.

To be honest, I'm quite surprised at how straight-forward some of the evidence here is. Typically, verses which have gotten constant big CRTs for years need to grasp at straws to make any further changes, but this actually just seems to be a case of us missing evidence that's been staring us in the face the whole time.

I think the AP and Speed changes are straight-forward enough that I really have no issue with them being implemented. LS... ehhhhh... LS is always a very, very weird statistic to change on profiles, since even when there are few blatant feats that can be used as statistics, characters are typically constantly demonstrating their LS in smaller ways. Every time someone picks up their weapon, holds up a heavy object, exterts themselves when pushing, yada yada, they're demonstrating what their lifting strength is. As such, it's very difficult for characters on "human scales", like Dante, to justify very high LS ratings. I will really have to put more thought into whether that's an outlier or not. In terms of the feat itself, though, I believe it's valid. The proof is just as straight-forward as everything else, it's only really consistency that makes me stop and question it.
 
DarkGrath said:
Alright, finally taken a good look through all of this.

To be honest, I'm quite surprised at how straight-forward some of the evidence here is. Typically, verses which have gotten constant big CRTs for years need to grasp at straws to make any further changes, but this actually just seems to be a case of us missing evidence that's been staring us in the face the whole time.

I think the AP and Speed changes are straight-forward enough that I really have no issue with them being implemented. LS... ehhhhh... LS is always a very, very weird statistic to change on profiles, since even when there are few blatant feats that can be used as statistics, characters are typically constantly demonstrating their LS in smaller ways. Every time someone picks up their weapon, holds up a heavy object, exterts themselves when pushing, yada yada, they're demonstrating what their lifting strength is. As such, it's very difficult for characters on "human scales", like Dante, to justify very high LS ratings. I will really have to put more thought into whether that's an outlier or not. In terms of the feat itself, though, I believe it's valid. The proof is just as straight-forward as everything else, it's only really consistency that makes me stop and question it.
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Maybe an "At least Class Y, likely Infinite, possibly Immeasurable" for LS then?
 
Thank u for the replies, Your Honors

DarkGrath said:
Alright, finally taken a good look through all of this.

To be honest, I'm quite surprised at how straight-forward some of the evidence here is. Typically, verses which have gotten constant big CRTs for years need to grasp at straws to make any further changes, but this actually just seems to be a case of us missing evidence that's been staring us in the face the whole time.

I think the AP and Speed changes are straight-forward enough that I really have no issue with them being implemented. LS... ehhhhh... LS is always a very, very weird statistic to change on profiles, since even when there are few blatant feats that can be used as statistics, characters are typically constantly demonstrating their LS in smaller ways. Every time someone picks up their weapon, holds up a heavy object, exterts themselves when pushing, yada yada, they're demonstrating what their lifting strength is. As such, it's very difficult for characters on "human scales", like Dante, to justify very high LS ratings. I will really have to put more thought into whether that's an outlier or not. In terms of the feat itself, though, I believe it's valid. The proof is just as straight-forward as everything else, it's only really consistency that makes me stop and question it.
Click to expand...

I said in the OP how the current LS stat for DMC (Argosax's Class Y) is done casually and while nerfed, but, I have no objections if it ends up being an Outlier, Nightmare may be a beast, but he ain't God Tier, and absolutely nothing on DMC comes even close to that level of LS, from any tier so far. The best ones are Savior (Class M to Class G) and Argosax (Class Y, at best Stellar depending on interpretation)

They might try bringing the fusion of the worlds as LS feats, but I don't agree with that

KLOL506 said:
Maybe an "At least Class Y, likely Infinite, possibly Immeasurable" for LS then?
Click to expand...

The feat is Immeasurable if accepted, so I don't think we need Infinite there
 
Lightning_XXI said:
Thank u for the replies, Your Honors



I said in the OP how the current LS stat for DMC (Argosax's Class Y) is done casually and while nerfed, but, I have no objections if it ends up being an Outlier, Nightmare may be a beast, but he ain't God Tier, and absolutely nothing on DMC comes even close to that level of LS, from any tier so far. The best ones are Savior (Class M to Class G) and Argosax (Class Y, at best Stellar depending on interpretation)

They might try bringing the fusion of the worlds as LS feats, but I don't agree with that



The feat is Immeasurable if accepted, so I don't think we need Infinite there
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Aight then, "At least Class Y, possibly Immeasurable"

Otherwise we fall back to Class M.
 
I believe people didn't really cared that much about Peak of Combat because it is a mobile game with a not that big of a launch, most of its lore is close to unknown

However, past threads already proved its canonicity, and it's a game with tons of upgrades
 
I don't even remember Devil May Cry anymore, all thanks to whatever the hell is this new game/information you guys are talking about. I'm not really going to argue anything since I'm really not knowledgeable on Immeasurable stuff Since it changes a lot

I guess everything is fine though, it fits the description. Though this speed buff seems ridiculous.
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
Time Travel is not a requirement for Immeasurable. It never has been and shouldn't be, because moving outside of time is enough to qualify. The page itself literally states:

"Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, traveling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case."

Time Travel via Speed is a finicky thing that is evaluated as it is on a case by case basis. Multiple characters have Immeasurable without using speed for time travel because of this.

If we did use Time Travel via Speed as the main requirement, then characters who are unbound by time (and should thus logically be Immeasurable) lose the speed rating, and a character who goes at Relativistic speeds around the earth to Time Travel gains it, somehow.

It's all case by case. I feel like changing the goalpost here would just overcomplicate things and make them far worsI'm
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I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote the speed page to me. I've read it thoroughly and even quoted it in this very thread. And the section you describe isn't relevant vs what we're discussing here.

I'm not suggesting anything about characters using specific travel techniques or Rel - low FTL time travelling tropes from the 70s such as Reeves Superman getting immeasurable speed ratings, that's clear that it isn't at play here.

There may be several characters that are indeed incorrectly ranked at immeasurable speed for not really adhering to how immeasurable is outlined: Which is seeing the timestream as a line that can be traversed left and right easily.

Maybe the immeasurable rating parameters need to be tweaked or an additional rating between Infinite and Immeasurable needs to be created to accommodate those, but I digress, that's not the point of this thread.



My overall question, and hopefully someone can help me out here (civilly) if I'm not getting something; is why we're automatically assuming their definition of 'surpassing a dimensional time stream' is meant to be as strict and specific as ours? Don't get me wrong, if the sentence of ("As a demon lord with more power than his hunters, his speed is faster than theirs, allowing him to travel and bypass the dimensional axis of the time stream") was by itself, that would very undoubtedly meet the requirements, without question.

But for me a couple things hamper that.

1.) If Pluto was a background lore character, that would have made the statement even stronger. But he isn't. He's an integral, interactive boss fight that moves the story along A -> B. So the need to demonstrate 'immeasurableness'...becomes even more important because its so easy to have anti-feats against it in a linear story telling format.

2.) More importantly, it's the second part of the statement that makes it questionable to me that they mean surpassing the time stream the same as how we define it: "As a demon lord with more power than his hunters, his speed is faster than theirs, allowing him to travel and bypass the dimensional axis of the time stream, giving the illusion of teleportation to the naked eye."

That is reminiscent of our own page saying "For more information, Infinite speed characters are so fast, they move faster than time can flow at any period. They perceive every finite speed character as completely frozen and it takes 0 time to react to any finite speed object or travel finite speed distance. They can also perform and infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow."


The latter half of the sentence tells you what the application of his time stream bypassing speed looks like; its fast enough that he can move X distance in 0 time in the present, which comes across as teleporting to the naked eye of those slower than Pluto.

If it said in addition to looking like he's teleporting to slower characters, that he can maneuver around time, then yeah it would be undeniable. But for right now that additional half of the sentence seems to say moving around at 0 time in the present is enough for the developer's definition of 'surpassing the time stream', and not necessarily our own definition.


That's exactly what seemed to happen when Pluto blitzed base Dante by stabbing him with Rebellion, it looked like he teleported, when really he just charged forward in a literal instant in present time. Then when Dante went DT he was able to go more blow for blow with Pluto. And DT is just a straightforward multiplier. It seems to me that DMC could easily just be higher and higher levels of infinite speed in the 2C levels.

If the immeasurable rating doesn't actually require a character to demonstrate the ability to move even a second or two left or right of the present time, then I'm struggling to see how its functionally any different than infinite speed? Hopefully someone can help out here.

In the end I believe the game is still ongoing with updates so the answers may work itself out before long.
 
NeoTengus said:
1.) If Pluto was a background lore character, that would have made the statement even stronger. But he isn't. He's an integral, interactive boss fight that moves the story along A -> B. So the need to demonstrate 'immeasurableness'...becomes even more important because its so easy to have anti-feats against it in a linear story telling format.
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I'll let others handle rest of stuff.

But Pluto isn't any joke in lore. Yes he isn't widely known among fandom but his importance in story is immense.

He is the Original Demon King of Demon World.
He is the one who extricated Human World from Demon World and sealed it and saved it when it was born to Demon World.
Why would a God of Evil save humanity is unknown.....but his actions are important for foundation of story.

That's why Mundus kills him off and becomes new king....merges the realms again.

Pluto is a weakest demon king. But his importance isn't deserving of dismissal.
 
You misunderstand my statement. I know who Pluto is.

I meant If he was a background character that we don't see interacting with anyone on screen, then I would be more apt to believe the immeasurable ranking. Kinda like the various Daedric Princes in ES that we only hear about but don't see. Or any number of ethereal background lore characters in fiction.
 
NeoTengus said:
You misunderstand my statement. I know who Pluto is.

I meant If he was a background character that we don't see interacting with anyone on screen, then I would be more apt to believe the immeasurable ranking. Kinda like the various Daedric Princes in ES that we only hear about but don't see. Or any number of ethereal background lore characters in fiction.
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Well we do put more weight on lore portryal than how game material represents them.

Cuz you know media does get apocryphal in its representation especially with more abstract/broken stuff making it more harder to present
We have DBS where septillions FTL characters who appear subsonic/supersonic.
And GoW where Kratos looks transonic despite being infinite speed.
And many more.
 
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