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Tien Shinhan upgrade that should've been done a long time ago

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AKM sama said:
It should be noted that Tien did absolutely no damage to Cell. All he did was pin him down which would translate to a greater pushing strength than Cell's capability of flight.
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We agree, but that is not the basis for our scaling.
The energy generated more force than a punch coming from a 4-C character, which couldn't even move Cell out of place. Thus, the Kikoho can generate more force than the punch at the very least, thus, 4-C. We acknowledge that it does not scale, or hurt Cell, nor are we going to ever say that Tien's Kikoho is as strong as Cell is.
 
Vizer04 said:
At first, because Vegeta wanted to fight against A18 and he wouldn't let anyone interfere or help him. After that, he couldn't use the Neo-Kikohō because A18 broke Vegeta's arm and they were very close so the attack would've harmed Vegeta too.

Suddenly, Trunks decided to help his father and A17 tried to stop him (only to be followed by Piccolo). All of that happened very fast and Tien didn't have time to use the Neo-Kikohō. On top of that, Piccolo and Trunks were too close to the Androids and they would've been harmed by the attack too.
Click to expand...
These are all situational things though. If Tien was really that much more stronger than Vegeta or Androids, he could have very easily created a situation where he'd be free to use this attack, trying to tell his teammates that he has an ace up his sleeve that he'd like to use even when he was seeing how badly Vegeta was getting overpowered. Plus, Vegeta was only fighting Android 18. Android 17 was standing at a safe distance away for a long while which was a clear opportunity for Tien to finish him off.

Honestly, this is just an example of inconsistent writing for a cool "wow" moment with no regard to making sense in powerscaling. Tien's attack that he can spam a few times without killing himself being stronger than Vegeta and the Androids sticks out as an outlier imo.
 
AKM sama said:
These are all situational things though. If Tien was really that much more stronger than Vegeta or Androids, he could have very easily created a situation where he'd be free to use this attack, trying to tell his teammates that he has an ace up his sleeve that he'd like to use even when he was seeing how badly Vegeta was getting overpowered.
Click to expand...
He didn't have time to do that because Trunks decided to help his father (Piccolo even calls him an idiot for doing that)
 
Vizer04 said:
He didn't have time to do that because Trunks decided to help his father (Piccolo even calls him an idiot for doing that)
Click to expand...
That happened much later. The team arrived on the scene one chapter ago where there was plenty of time for Tien to do anything he wanted. 17 and 16 were just standing at a distance. Again, this is very situational. There are a lot of ways Tien could have handled things if he really had an attack that could have ended this whole ordeal.
 
AKM sama said:
That happened much later. The team arrived on the scene one chapter ago where there was plenty of time for Tien to do anything he wanted. 17 and 16 were just standing at a distance. Again, this is very situational. There are a lot of ways Tien could have handled things if he really had an attack that could have ended this whole ordeal.
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17 did say he won't attack them as long as they won't interfere with 18 and Vegeta's fight, so I don't think Tien would attack unprovoked. But as I said, even afterwards 17 exposed himself to clear shot yet Tien did nothing, and instead rushed like an idiot
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
17 did say he won't attack them as long as they won't interfere with 18 and Vegeta's fight, so I don't think Tien would attack unprovoked. But as I said, even afterwards 17 exposed himself to clear shot yet Tien did nothing, and instead rushed like an idiot
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Tien didn't know that the Androids would one-shot a Super Saiyan (even Krillin was shocked) and when he realized that, Piccolo was already flying towards 17 (only to be one-shotted too)

Also, Tien doesn't know how strong the Androids are (he can't sense their Ki), he just knows that they're unquantifiably stronger than Vegeta. He wouldn't risk killing himself when he didn't knew if his attack would even inflict any harm on them.
 
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Vizer04 said:
Tien didn't know that the Androids would one-shot a Super Saiyan (even Krillin was shocked) and when he realized that, Piccolo was already flying towards 17 (only to be one-shotted too)
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What do you mean? Tien literally watch the entire fight between Vegeta and 18 before he even moved, and he only moved AFTER Trunks was defeated in one attack
Vizer04 said:
Also, Tien doesn't know how strong the Androids are (he can't sense their Ki), he just knows that they're unquantifiably stronger than Vegeta. He wouldn't risk killing himself when he didn't knew if his attack would even inflict any harm on them.
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One Kikoho wouldn't kill him, and he saw their power on display. A single kikoho will one shot Android 17 and Android 18
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
What do you mean? Tien literally watch the entire fight between Vegeta and 18 before he even moved
Click to expand...
So? Vegeta wasn't one-shotted during the fight, you know?

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
he only moved AFTER Trunks was defeated in one attack
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That's not true at all...

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
One Kikoho wouldn't kill him, and he saw their power on display. A single kikoho will one shot Android 17 and Android 18
Click to expand...
You're missing the point, Tien doesn't know any of that (he can't sense their Ki)
 
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I agree with OP and Poke(Man). If Tien used his attack despite 2 super saiyans and Picogoat on the field when it could kill him it'd be

a) stupid as hell
b) ruin the point of the plot
 
Did y'all just ignore the fact that kikoho is not instantaneous? Even if the androids were """busy""" with other fighetere, they could still attack tien, it was a quick thinking situation and he didn't have time to fire a kikoho if he wanted
 
Let's also not forget that Kikoho and Shin Kikoho are in two different leagues of power, otherwise the "Shin Kikoho" itself is just a copy and paste of the regular Kikoho but with a different adjective, meaning that the regular Kikoho wouldn't scale to the Shin Kikoho. In that sense, the regular Kikoho wouldn't have the possibility of taking down the Androids because of the difference in power between the two techniques, and thus wouldn't make it an outlier.
 
AKM sama said:
Honestly, this is just an example of inconsistent writing for a cool "wow" moment with no regard to making sense in powerscaling. Tien's attack that he can spam a few times without killing himself being stronger than Vegeta and the Androids sticks out as an outlier imo.
Click to expand...
dragonball is no stranger to having "ultimate techniques" being capable of outmatching things far stronger than the user
didn't we just have a destructo disc thread of the same concept?
 
AKM sama said:
It should be noted that Tien did absolutely no damage to Cell. All he did was pin him down which would translate to a greater pushing strength than Cell's capability of flight.
Click to expand...
No offense waifu man but you need to read the OP to understand what we're taking about...
 
AKM sama said:
These are all situational things though. If Tien was really that much more stronger than Vegeta or Androids, he could have very easily created a situation where he'd be free to use this attack, trying to tell his teammates that he has an ace up his sleeve that he'd like to use even when he was seeing how badly Vegeta was getting overpowered. Plus, Vegeta was only fighting Android 18. Android 17 was standing at a safe distance away for a long while which was a clear opportunity for Tien to finish him off.
Click to expand...
I answer all of that in the OP, but i'll repeat it for you:
Why didn't he use the Neo-Kikohō against A17 and A18?

At first, because Vegeta wanted to fight against A18 and he wouldn't let anyone interfere or help him. After that, he couldn't use the Neo-Kikohō because A18 broke Vegeta's arm and they were very close so the attack would've harmed Vegeta too.

Suddenly, Trunks decided to help his father and A17 tried to stop him (only to be followed by Piccolo). All of that happened very fast and Tien didn't have time to use the Neo-Kikohō. On top of that, Piccolo and Trunks were too close to the Androids and they would've been harmed by the attack too.

Also, there's the obvious argument that everyone has said at this point: PIS, just the way Krillin doesn't spam Destructo Discs, because it would ruin the plot.
Click to expand...
 
You think characters aren't prone to make stupid mistakes? Just look at Vegeta:
013.jpg
Click to expand...
 
To be fair, everyone was stupid in the Cell Saga (Piccolo allowing Cell to find the Androids, Krillin destroying the self-destruct device that Bulma created, Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb A18, Goku forcing Gohan to fight Cell and giving him a senzu, etc)
 
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Vizer04 said:
To be fair, everyone was stupid in the Cell Saga (Piccolo allowing Cell to find the Androids, Krillin destroying the self-destruct device that Bulma created, Vegeta allowing Cell to absorb A18, Goku forcing Gohan to fight Cell and giving him a senzu, etc)
Click to expand...
I actually heard something on the senzu bean thing that somewhat justifies why he did it, but I digress.
 
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