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Tien being 4-C with the Kikoho makes no sense whatsoever, and here's why.

First, Tien can sense energy and know exactly how strong people like SSJ Vegeta were when fighting Android 18, however, after the battle Tien said that even with Goku's power, they can't defeat Android 18 and Android 17, and that includes himself too since he knows how strong his Kikoho, and knows it wouldn't help to win against them

Another point is that later, just before Piccolo fights Android 17, he tells the other humans (Tien included) that there's no point to let them fight the Androids. Piccolo is also well aware of all of Tien's techniques and is aware of how powerful he is.

Besides, as their one hope to defeat the Androids and Cell, the heroes all agreed that the Saiyans going to the time chamber is their only way to win, meaning that Tien using the Kikoho will not be able to defeat them. And for reference, Android 16 = Imperfect Cell >>> Android 17 = Piccolo > Android 18 > SSJ Vegeta

All of this proves that Tien did NOT have enough power with the Kikoho to even overwhelm the Androids, let alone Cell who is far above both of them

Going back to the feat itself, when Cell was taking Android 16's punch, Cell expected the punch and reacted to it, however, when Tien fired his Kikoho, Cell was caught off guard and couldn't brace himself in time, thus getting pinned to the ground. Tien had to also fire his Kikohos constantly to pin down Cell without him escaping, as if he'd allow Cell to brace himself for the attack, it wouldn't work

So my proposal is to simply get the 4-C rating removed and replace it with "far higher" rating
 
Super Sonic gets pushed by attacks that never ever hurt him in boss fights either.

Pushing=/=Damaging
 
Super Sonic gets pushed by attacks that never ever hurt him in boss fights either.

Pushing=/=Damaging
Yes, but the logic was that because Tien pushed Cell with his Kikoho while 16 didn't even do that, he's apperantly stronger

I don't really think though that Sonic and Dragon Ball also work by the same rules but that's still true
 
First, Tien can sense energy and know exactly how strong people like SSJ Vegeta were when fighting Android 18, however, after the battle Tien said that even with Goku's power, they can't defeat Android 18 and Android 17, and that includes himself too since he knows how strong his Kikoho, and knows it wouldn't help to win against them
  1. Tien likely did not factor the Tri-Beam into the equation because the Tri-Beam kills him. Besides, Tien stated that they would have been to win against the Androids, not they were incapable of even touching them. Tien understands the limitations and drawbacks of his Tri-Beam, specifically that the Tri-Beam drains his own life-force and is incredibly predictable.
  2. Like the original thread pointed out, Plot-Induced Stupidity. Why doesn't Krillin launch a barrage of Destructo Discs at the Androids like he did against Frieza? Why doesn't everybody stall the Androids while Piccolo prepares a Special Beam Cannon? PIS.
Another point is that later, just before Piccolo fights Android 17, he tells the other humans (Tien included) that there's no point to let them fight the Androids. Piccolo is also well aware of all of Tien's techniques and is aware of how powerful he is.
Piccolo is aware of Tien's techniques up to this point. He may have seen the Tri-Beam in action during the Attack of the Saiyans, but he is unaware of how much Tien has grown over the course of their three year training period, and he is unaware of the existence of the Neo Tri-Beam.
Besides, as their one hope to defeat the Androids and Cell, the heroes all agreed that the Saiyans going to the time chamber is their only way to win, meaning that Tien using the Kikoho will not be able to defeat them. And for reference, Android 16 = Imperfect Cell >>> Android 17 = Piccolo > Android 18 > SSJ Vegeta
See first point.
All of this proves that Tien did NOT have enough power with the Kikoho to even overwhelm the Androids, let alone Cell who is far above both of them
Tri-Beam.
Going back to the feat itself, when Cell was taking Android 16's punch, Cell expected the punch and reacted to it, however, when Tien fired his Kikoho, Cell was caught off guard and couldn't brace himself in time, thus getting pinned to the ground. Tien had to also fire his Kikohos constantly to pin down Cell without him escaping, as if he'd allow Cell to brace himself for the attack, it wouldn't work
That would be a good counter argument if not for the fact that Cell had a window of opportunity to brace itself after Tien fired off his first blast now that it was aware of Tien. Despite that, the Neo Tri-Beam crushed Cell and pressured it hard enough to leave Cell briefly incapacitated. When Cell did emerge, it was covered in burns and wounds and affirmed the notion that the Neo Tri-Beam was powerful enough to keep it down under.
 
  1. Tien likely did not factor the Tri-Beam into the equation because the Tri-Beam kills him. Besides, Tien stated that they would have been to win against the Androids, not they were incapable of even touching them. Tien understands the limitations and drawbacks of his Tri-Beam, specifically that the Tri-Beam drains his own life-force and is incredibly predictable.
That's not true. The Tri-Beam drains his energy, but unless he uses it multiple times like he did against Cell, he'd still be alive. Tien is well-aware of his own techniques and if he (and everyone else, such as Goku, who knew about his attacks and sensed it) had this much power, even a single blast would instantly destroy both Androids
  1. Like the original thread pointed out, Plot-Induced Stupidity. Why doesn't Krillin launch a barrage of Destructo Discs at the Androids like he did against Frieza? Why doesn't everybody stall the Androids while Piccolo prepares a Special Beam Cannon? PIS.
You can't excuse everything with PIS. The narrative clearly stated that their only chances to defeat the Androids was to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. If Tien already had such extreme level of power all along, a power that FAR outclasses any of the Super Saiyans and can defeat the Androids, Tien would've used it even if it'd cost him his life.
 
Cell didn't brace himself, all he could do is look up and watch as Tien kept firing the Tri-Beams, pinning him to the ground each time.

Again, Cell did not had the time to react to the attacks, and as we know in DB, being off guard makes the victim vulnerable to more damage
 
Because he was off guard. It's like if you'd scale the laser that hit Goku in RoF above weakened Golden Frieza as it pierced through Goku and dropped him out of SSB

Or that you'd scale Base Goku to Buuhan for Goku cutting him in half with a Kienzan

All the Tri-Beams did was to stop Cell from moving, not do actual damage to him
 
I agree, I never liked how this slipped through the edges, and other staff members have only rolled with it because they were too tired of debating against it.
What... did you even read the original thread? Most of the staff agreed with the upgrade (except you and a few others) and not because they didn't want to keep debating against it.
 
16 doesn't have Ki yet Cell can react to one single unexpected attack but somehow he can't react to Tien's Kikoho after being pinned to the ground ten times...
1) Cell fully expected 16's punch. He was right in front of him and Cell saw him the entire time

2) Again, no Cell couldn't brace himself in time. All Cell was able to do was look up before Tien fired the next attack pinning to the ground, and he fired them at such quick successions BECAUSE Tien knew that if he'll let Cell time to brace himself, then it wouldn't work
 
As I explained before, everyone (including Tien who knows how strong his Neo-Tri Beam given he could sense how strong SSJ Vegeta was) consistently said that if neither SSJ Vegeta or SSJ Goku can beat the Androids or Cell, then their only hope is the Saiyans going to the chamber and becoming stronger than them

Tien being >>> 16 just contradicts everything the narratives goes for
 
That's like, the main reason he wouldn't do that.
Tien would sacrifice his life if he'd have no choice. He did it already in the Saiyan Saga

And if this would've been their only way, he would've done it given how even Vegeta failed against them
 
Tien didn't have a choice with Cell, if he didn't stop him he would've achieved perfection then and there and killed everyone afterwards.
 
What... did you even read the original thread? Most of the staff agreed with the upgrade (except you and a few others) and not because they didn't want to keep debating against it.
Not just me, but AKM Sama and Maverick also disagreed. It just seems PIS for Tien to have always had an attack that suddenly makes him so much stronger than Goku, Vegeta, Trunks or Piccolo and Dr Gero should have at least been able to sense his PL being really high up if it was truly intended to be that strong even if he hadn't used it. Even Tien basically knew he wasn't going to stand a chance against Cell because he self admitted to being fodder compared to "The Super Saiyans or Piccolo".

But anyway, I could ping a few more staff members. @AKM sama @Maverick_Zero_X @KLOL506 @SomebodyData
 
I disagree with the downgrade.
1. Prove he would have been able to hit 17 and 18 with his Shin Kihoho (and that it would have been smart to.)
2. Prove Piccolo knew the capabilities of the Shin Kihoho.
3. Maybe because he didn't ya know actually beat Cell.
4. All of this can be explained away by PIS.
5. Even going of the logic of "he was caught off guard", he should have been prepared for the next one. The Shin Kihoho has long gaps between usage. He should have at least recovered by the 3rd one and moved out of the way.
 
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