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...bruh...
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22nd Budokai Arc Downgrades (Dragon Ball)
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
- Status
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Don't "bruh" me, it's an official guide, and the drafts were written by Shueisha themselves, it's already accepted. Stop this arbitrary regionalism where only Japanese guides are valid.
5-C Kikoho is already supported by El Manga Legendario, so there's that
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This gives me 2020 vibes.
Disagree FRA.
Disagree FRA.
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Serlock_Holmes
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El Manga Legendario is what gave us the Grade 3 and SSJ2 multipliers that we use lol
The_Yellow_Topaz
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I'd like to point out that Tien was never going at full power against Roshi until the very end where he basically dominated the entire fight, Roshi never managed to even hurt him in any way once during their battle.
So @KingTempest's comments about Tien struggling against Base Roshi are just contradicted by the source material!
Roshi maybe got one or two hits in by having better experience, and Tien holding back significantly since he didn't even know Roshi would be that strong, Roshi doesn't land a single hit after Tien goes full power.
Considering this, it's incredibly weird to consider that the line where Roshi says he would probably lose is refering to his base form, it makes no sense! Roshi didn't stand a chance in base against a full power Tien, the correct statement would be that he would definitely lose had the battle kept going, Tien even says as much based on Roshi's performance, the only thing that could even give Roshi a slight chance at victory would be his Max Power form. I disagree with the thread based on these reasons.
Roshi basically admits that he wouldn't been able to defeat Tien, verbatim. Saying he could have done it had he gone all out is just ignoring the line entirely.
So @KingTempest's comments about Tien struggling against Base Roshi are just contradicted by the source material!
Roshi maybe got one or two hits in by having better experience, and Tien holding back significantly since he didn't even know Roshi would be that strong, Roshi doesn't land a single hit after Tien goes full power.
Considering this, it's incredibly weird to consider that the line where Roshi says he would probably lose is refering to his base form, it makes no sense! Roshi didn't stand a chance in base against a full power Tien, the correct statement would be that he would definitely lose had the battle kept going, Tien even says as much based on Roshi's performance, the only thing that could even give Roshi a slight chance at victory would be his Max Power form. I disagree with the thread based on these reasons.
Roshi basically admits that he wouldn't been able to defeat Tien, verbatim. Saying he could have done it had he gone all out is just ignoring the line entirely.
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Serlock_Holmes
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Should I search for el manga? I have actually found the information we probably want in tome 11. But I can't speak spanish.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Please do, my Spanish is reliable enough
Serlock_Holmes
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How can i send it to you? No idea if it can be posted here as it is too big of a file. It says that the collection is also in Italy and Greece....I knew I had that collection. I had some figures shown here.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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I have access to all 50, just tell me the volume and I'll find it. Or screenshot the relevant page and send it to me
Serlock_Holmes
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It's the n.11 one I believe. Page 15 and 18 seem to talk about it. No idea if there is more info in other tomes.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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It's just a new page talking about how the Kikoho has an immense destructive power that surpasses the Kamehameha. No different than Roshi's own statement really!
No other relevant info
Serlock_Holmes
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You remember a different statement?
The_Yellow_Topaz
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Not really, that is it. I'm pretty sure the point I've made is more than enough
Serlock_Holmes
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This isn't a CGT, but I have a couple of issues with this calc and don't think it's usable.
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"En aquel momento pasó a ser la técnica letal más poderosa que se había visto en Dragon Ball, y Goku no tuvo otra opción que esquivarla volando. Dicho sea de paso, en la edición anterior se habían destruido la caseta del lugar del torneo y la Luna, y en ésta el ring"Is that image by any chance more informative?
""At that moment it became the most powerful lethal technique that had been seen in Dragon Ball, and Goku had no choice but to dodge it by flying. By the way, in the previous edition they had destroyed the booth at the tournament venue and the Moon, and in this the ring"
Outside of this it's just talking about basic information.
Serlock_Holmes
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Is that any good for proof?
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- Thread starter
- #262
Yes, it is proof.
I am currently weighing up the various pieces of evidence given in the thread.
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it is
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Well it literally confirms that it's more powerful than Roshi's, so yea
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Technically it is about what the AP of 22nd Budokai Goku should be, so at least it's good to throw it out there
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- Thread starter
- #266
A list of new calcs that could affect the ratings is what one of my next threads will be about.
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Cool, be sure to link it to me on my profile page
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- Thread starter
- #268
After reviewing all of the evidence, I think that going with a "Possibly 5-C" rating like @DarkDragonMedeus has suggested is the best route to go with for now. @Maverick_Zero_X @KingTempest What do you think?
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If we accept the spanish guide then that's fine
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Possibly 5-C seems fair then.
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- Thread starter
- #271
Thank you both. I'll update the tally and put it in the OP.
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Actually, Possibly 5-C for what
Their physicals or just the Tri-Beam?
Their physicals or just the Tri-Beam?
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Why only possibly? The Power Levels support it. The story (literal narrative themes) supports it. The characters themselves state it. The mechanics of the power at display require it. And now you have a whole guide stating it verbatim.
As Lephyr stated, it makes no sense to suggest a “Possibly,” rating here. It should legitimately simply be “Large Building Level, Moon Level with Kikoho/Kamehameha.”
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- Thread starter
- #274
Just the Tri-Beam.
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Now that, I'm fine with
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- Thread starter
- #276
I don't agree that the Power Level support it, or the narrative themes, or the characters or the mechanics. The guidebook is why I'm considering a Possibly 5-C being a fine compromise.
Going back over it again will just be arguing in circles as I've already addressed the arguments.
Serlock_Holmes
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Yeah it's just a difference of opinion. I think they have moon lv dura, you think in tri-beam only and damage now thinks a possibly rating. It's just different opinions that people vote for.
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Roshi also needs his full power combined with his other keys and to split the rating with his kamehameha
"High 8-C, higher with Kamehameha, far higher with Full Power, 5-C with Max Power Kamehameha"
"High 8-C, higher with Kamehameha, far higher with Full Power, 5-C with Max Power Kamehameha"
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At this point, I'mma unfollow the thread. My stance remains the same, but I really can't be bothered anymore
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