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You say that like his defeats are something to be ashamed of. You obviously weren't paying attention when Oda hyped Kaido's raw power.-BANLK- said:
You have your timelines wrong as well. Rock was almost 20 years before Kaido came to Wano so pleny of time for Kaido to get stronger.
You're also assuming SenGoku was talking only about their physical individuat strength instead of taking into account their military might.
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He already is rated as such so I don't know what you mean.
I just wanted to know if he was..that's literally all I meant.
I just wanted to know if he was..that's literally all I meant.
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For the love of god, I'm not trying to do anythingCinCameron20 said:Ace only scales to Jinbe back when they fought, so that's only loose reasoning since some time had passed. But both of them actually get some scaling from stopping attacks from Aokiji and Akainu respectively.
@Whis - Stop trying so hard to scale characters who have 0 relation in the story or have any way to actually scale from eachother... Fishman Island Zoro > Ace? Mmk. I guess this means Doflamingo > Akainu then. I'll get right to the changes.
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The funniest thing is lots of people have talked about one piece becoming tier 5 and all in the future yet when I bring up speculation about power in the thread I get told to look at the profiles.
Which is funny since half of our profiles are characters who are at a much lower tier than they really are for lack of feats such as Boa Hancock, etc.
Which is funny since half of our profiles are characters who are at a much lower tier than they really are for lack of feats such as Boa Hancock, etc.
Eminiteable
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He didn't tank it did he? He should still be able to survive the shockwave with his current Durability I think.
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It's not tanking if he is shown taking great damage from the attack.
The first attack stunned Akainu for a moment, and considering where the punch even landed, and that blood is coming from his scalp, nose and mouth, it's VERY likely the punch fractured his skull. He had durability to actually survive the attack (Which 1/3 of WB's AP is more-than sufficient for this result), but he definitely did NOT "tank" the attack. The vibrations from WB's punch going through his head probably even gave him a major concussion.
The first attack stunned Akainu for a moment, and considering where the punch even landed, and that blood is coming from his scalp, nose and mouth, it's VERY likely the punch fractured his skull. He had durability to actually survive the attack (Which 1/3 of WB's AP is more-than sufficient for this result), but he definitely did NOT "tank" the attack. The vibrations from WB's punch going through his head probably even gave him a major concussion.
- Second one is pretty obvious. Akainu could not even move for some time after being struck (Not to mention WB somehow managed to perform a punch strong enough to KO him despite his severe injuries).
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I really do not think that is how durability works. You durability is the amount of AP required to kill you. Also Akainu was still conscious and he caught hold of a rock in the chasm literally seconds after getting hit by WB's second attack. His skull being fractured is headcanon at best.
Especially after the first attack LOL, he was fighting immediately after tanking it just fine, you're getting confused between tanking and no-selling. Saying he was massively damaged is a huge overstatement.
Especially after the first attack LOL, he was fighting immediately after tanking it just fine, you're getting confused between tanking and no-selling. Saying he was massively damaged is a huge overstatement.
Stefano4444
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Durability Negation by definition nullify standard durability.LordWhis said:
Although i'm puzzled about Akainu having Durability Negation.
The reason in the profile is that "though his magma can bypass durability to an extent as it can vaporize flesh and bone upon contact", but isn't that something that standard magma can do normally? By that logic anyone who had Magma Manipulation should automatically possess Durability Negation.
And the same could potentially apply with Aokiji and (most certainly) Kizaru supposed Durability Negation, Aokiji freezing things or Kizaru firing lasers shouldn't be enough to give him such ability, not unless it is stated that such attacks can bypass standard durability.
Stefano4444
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Not if he can only harm 6-B characters via hax (at least in theory).LordWhis said:
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@Whis - You're mistaken.
While many mistakes are made regarding scaling in the wiki: we are not supposed to scale characters to attacks that connect to them just because they "survive" or can "keep fighting" unless there's a vast gap (like 8-A to 7-B). Here, there's a clear distinction where we know WB is more powerful than Akainu, and they have evidence to scale around 1/3 WB's power. Taking a hit that causes you to bleed from various places on your head is not "tanking the attack".
Akainu holding onto the chasm was anime-only and while that's likely the case, he was still incapable of getting up for some time.
"His skull being fractured is headcanon at best" almost like saying FM Island Zoro > Ace.
Facts: Akainu was punched in the back of the head. He is shown stunned. He had blood streaming from his scalp, nose and mouth. Conclusion: Concussion and possible fractured skull.
You don't need to be hand-held into knowing what kind of injuries someone sustains. It's like Big Mom's case where she showed signs of starvations, and suffered various symptoms that would make it obvious that she is weakened without the need for the author to explain this to the viewer. You don't have to be a genius to know she was suffering from inanition, atrophy, and several other severe cases. Hence why it would have been pointless to suggest Jinbe being comparable to Big Mom just because he withstood one attack and then pushed her off the Sunny.
Just like, you know... saying Akainu's durability should scale to WB's AP when one attack gave him a potential fractured skull and CLEARLY injured him, and the other one temporarily incapacitated him. Wrong.
While many mistakes are made regarding scaling in the wiki: we are not supposed to scale characters to attacks that connect to them just because they "survive" or can "keep fighting" unless there's a vast gap (like 8-A to 7-B). Here, there's a clear distinction where we know WB is more powerful than Akainu, and they have evidence to scale around 1/3 WB's power. Taking a hit that causes you to bleed from various places on your head is not "tanking the attack".
Akainu holding onto the chasm was anime-only and while that's likely the case, he was still incapable of getting up for some time.
"His skull being fractured is headcanon at best" almost like saying FM Island Zoro > Ace.
Facts: Akainu was punched in the back of the head. He is shown stunned. He had blood streaming from his scalp, nose and mouth. Conclusion: Concussion and possible fractured skull.
You don't need to be hand-held into knowing what kind of injuries someone sustains. It's like Big Mom's case where she showed signs of starvations, and suffered various symptoms that would make it obvious that she is weakened without the need for the author to explain this to the viewer. You don't have to be a genius to know she was suffering from inanition, atrophy, and several other severe cases. Hence why it would have been pointless to suggest Jinbe being comparable to Big Mom just because he withstood one attack and then pushed her off the Sunny.
Just like, you know... saying Akainu's durability should scale to WB's AP when one attack gave him a potential fractured skull and CLEARLY injured him, and the other one temporarily incapacitated him. Wrong.
Stefano4444
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Him be Low 6-B + Limited Dura Neg should allow him to harm 6-B characters.LordWhis said:
Stefano4444
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You forgot to put Buggy the Clown at 0) and Pandaman at 0.5)PaChi2 said:
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6-B or not, Whitebeard isn't going to be able to chill in a pool of magma. Magma melts flesh and bone almost instantly.
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Also no offence but that whole post does seem very sketchy and uses a lot of headcanon.
I'd prefer an admin or a bureaucrat to confirm your definition of durability.
And even if he is low 6B then he would really be 6B for the purpose of vs threads since he can tank attacks from 6bs and keep fighting and his attacks are 6B in practice.
What's the point of keeping him in tier low 6B at this point. There are no good match ups left in the tier for him since he's basically a 6B character disguised as a low 6B character at this point.
I'd prefer an admin or a bureaucrat to confirm your definition of durability.
And even if he is low 6B then he would really be 6B for the purpose of vs threads since he can tank attacks from 6bs and keep fighting and his attacks are 6B in practice.
What's the point of keeping him in tier low 6B at this point. There are no good match ups left in the tier for him since he's basically a 6B character disguised as a low 6B character at this point.
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Him be Low 6-B + Limited Dura Neg should allow him to harm 6-B characters.
So he's a low 6B character who can damage 6B characters with all of his attacks and take 6B attacks and keep on fighting. He's really a low 6B in name only at this point. A 6B disguised as a low 6B really.
So he's a low 6B character who can damage 6B characters with all of his attacks and take 6B attacks and keep on fighting. He's really a low 6B in name only at this point. A 6B disguised as a low 6B really.
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Does anyone think Arlong is relatable in a weird way? he acts like he does to humans because of all the hate and racism the fish man community suffers. Furthermore he has genuine love for his fellow fish men and would never harm them in any way. He's also sort of honest and truly cares for his crewmates. He also tells Nami it isn't her fault being born a human. That is a very important line to understand him. That makes me feel that his actions are really a type of civil rights movement that he does. A form of protest and giving humanity a taste of his own medicine. He hates the human race for what they do to the fish man race. In his own way, he's a good guy. More like Katakuri than a truly evil villain like Doflamingo.
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>"And even if he is low 6B then he would really be 6B for the purpose of vs threads since he can tank attacks from 6bs and keep fighting and his attacks are 6B in practice."
He only ever took two hits from WB throughout the war, and avoided taking hits from almost everyone else. Again, he didn't tank anything. Two hits left him incredibly vulnerable. If we had him against someone around the same power as WB (Assuming they could even hit his logia form), he'd take two direct hits, then be on the ground and likely be finished off.
If Akainu didn't fall into the Chasm, he would have been laying there, completely vulnerable for many moments, and WB would have just finished him off in short order.
He only ever took two hits from WB throughout the war, and avoided taking hits from almost everyone else. Again, he didn't tank anything. Two hits left him incredibly vulnerable. If we had him against someone around the same power as WB (Assuming they could even hit his logia form), he'd take two direct hits, then be on the ground and likely be finished off.
- Stop trying to mislead everyone. "Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to withstand a certain amount of force. This is not to be confused with endurance; while durability is the ability to withstand damage, endurance is a measure of stamina." - From the durability page. Akainu clearly couldn't even withstand a single hit since he took massive damage to his head from a punch. Him getting up is a show of ENDURANCE.
If Akainu didn't fall into the Chasm, he would have been laying there, completely vulnerable for many moments, and WB would have just finished him off in short order.
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You imply that we jump on you if we cut the discussion down for good from the very beginning, but if we let you continue you start calling headcanon every argument against yours and call for other people to clarify.
Do you want to know what Durability is? Look at Cin's reply. He explained it perfectly.
How does it apply to Sakazuki's case? Well, he was nothing but heavily injured by Newgate's attacks. Scaling him to Shirohige because he kept fighting would imply that we have to scale Marineford Luffy because he took attacks from the Admirals and Mihawk and kept running to Ace's platform. Do we do that? No, we attribute that to stamina. Luffy was clearly injured by those attacks to the point where he was running away from them since he didn't stand a chance.
Sakazuki took attacks from Newgate, and two of them were enough to pin him down the ground for several minutes where he didn't do a thing during the major events in the war. Newgate is dead and then he comes back, weird, isn't it? Not to mention that Cin's conclusion on his wounds, while it's not confirmed, it's the most possible outcome. Your argument relies on Sakazuki not being that hurt, while that's not true at all. If he weren't that badly injured, why didn't he come back earlier in the war to continue his fight?
And the fact that your argument also relies on "he's a 6-B disguised as Low 6-B" and "Low 6-B isn't a fine place for matchups" make you lose all the potential credibility. You're obviously arguing for what YOU feel right, not for what's more accurate. Not to mention that we don't scale based on personal feelings about matchups. If that's the case, a lot of characters would be much stronger or weaker because people don't believe they are in their tiers.
We had this discussion too many times already. We should create a discussion rule at this point, because this is ridiculously repetitive.
Do you want to know what Durability is? Look at Cin's reply. He explained it perfectly.
How does it apply to Sakazuki's case? Well, he was nothing but heavily injured by Newgate's attacks. Scaling him to Shirohige because he kept fighting would imply that we have to scale Marineford Luffy because he took attacks from the Admirals and Mihawk and kept running to Ace's platform. Do we do that? No, we attribute that to stamina. Luffy was clearly injured by those attacks to the point where he was running away from them since he didn't stand a chance.
Sakazuki took attacks from Newgate, and two of them were enough to pin him down the ground for several minutes where he didn't do a thing during the major events in the war. Newgate is dead and then he comes back, weird, isn't it? Not to mention that Cin's conclusion on his wounds, while it's not confirmed, it's the most possible outcome. Your argument relies on Sakazuki not being that hurt, while that's not true at all. If he weren't that badly injured, why didn't he come back earlier in the war to continue his fight?
And the fact that your argument also relies on "he's a 6-B disguised as Low 6-B" and "Low 6-B isn't a fine place for matchups" make you lose all the potential credibility. You're obviously arguing for what YOU feel right, not for what's more accurate. Not to mention that we don't scale based on personal feelings about matchups. If that's the case, a lot of characters would be much stronger or weaker because people don't believe they are in their tiers.
We had this discussion too many times already. We should create a discussion rule at this point, because this is ridiculously repetitive.
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Well, iirc, Buggy is one of Oda favorite character so we can expect something out of his characters by the end of the series.PaChi2 said:
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Where does dura neg for Akainu even come from?
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