One Piece Discussion Thread Fourteen Marineford

[LordWhis]

What do you guys think of this tier list-

Tier 0- EOS Luffy, EOS Law, EOS Zoro, EOS Coby

Tier 1- Prime Roger, Prime WB, Prime Oden, Prime Garp

Tier 2- Prime Rayleigh, Prime Sengoku, Prime Shiki

Tier 3- Mihawk, Shanks, Kaido, Old WB, Big Mom, Current BB, Current Garp, Current Sengoku

Tier 4- Pre-TS Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Green Bull, Fujitora, Tokikake, Gion, Pre-TS Rayleigh

 

[VioIeLFC]

That's awful lol, like 90% of those characters are on the same Tier. Tier 0 also shouldn't exist. No character will ever be a whole tier above prime Roger, Wb, and Garp. There should only be 3 Tiers there at maximum.

 

[Ifeano0]

um why would u put prime oden over kaido when he lost to kaido ??? and probably a weaker kaido at that

 

[LordWhis]

um why would u put prime oden over kaido when he lost to kaido ??? and probably a weaker kaido at that

He rivaled a Prime WB. Kaido was weaker than an ancient, on his deathbed, cancer-ridden WB.

 

[Ifeano0]

1. we dont know if that WB was at his peak that was a WB that was still rising in power 2. oden literally lost to kaido after that moment 3. what make u so sure Kaido is weaker the old sick WB

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

He rivaled a Prime WB. Kaido was weaker than an ancient, on his deathbed, cancer-ridden WB.

We don't know that. Wait until we get the details of Oden's flashback before making assumptions. Also, Kaido was not weaker imo, but we need to wait and see.

 

[LordWhis]

Ace said the Whitebeard pirates could stalemate 2 other Yonko crews at the same time.

WB's general hype as being the strongest man/Yonko.

Kaido was only called WSC after WB's death.

 

[Ifeano0]

Ace said the Whitebeard pirates could stalemate 2 other Yonko crews at the same time.
WB's general hype as being the strongest man/Yonko.

Kaido was only called WSC after WB's death.

lol dont know where ur getting that ace statement from also kaido was called WSC before WB died read the ace novels

 

[ZackMoon1234]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/e1aktk/congratulations_one_piece/

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/e1oxxd/kimetsu_is_the_top_and_one_piece_is_over_the_top

 

[CinCameron20]

Magellan's page already lists the reasoning for his "Unknown" tier. Scaling from the MC, but also implied to be far stronger due to having to be so in order to maintain order w/ prisoners who are upper tier 7 or in tier 6.

• PS: Stop trying to wank Magellan. Ace didn't even fight him in the manga. He tried to go to where Luffy was, and Magellan simply pinned him down. Not to mention he was untreated from fighting BB, and in sea-stone, which is known to severely weaken DF users.

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, calling WB 28 years before his death his "prime"...? And saying Oden "rivaled" him? Oden clashed with him and caught him off guard with a request to join his crew. Yeah, Oden is strong af, and WB even states this, but to suggest he's = to WB based on that is unsupported.

 

[Dr.Fix]

^TBF the lore already stipulates Oden (Via Enma) is>than WB via wounding Kaido. This recent clash is just supportive evidence.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree that it's even more supportive^

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

@CinCameron Off guard? WB tells his crew to get back and that something "incredible" was approaching. How is that "off guard"?

 

[AstralKing7]

Oof I forgot about that^

 

[CinCameron20]

@CinCameron Off guard? WB tells his crew to get back and that something "incredible" was approaching. How is that "off guard"?

You completely misunderstand the context. Re-read. He caught him off-guard with his request to join his crew. There, you got it now?

 

[CinCameron20]

@Fix - Clashing with WB and wounding Kaido implies he is superior to WB? At best (currently) it would only imply he is comparable in strength to both of them, but Kaido as of 20 years ago and WB as of 28 years before Marineford should not be scaled to their current power levels unless stated otherwise.

 

[Dr.Fix]

>>but Kaido as of 20 years ago and WB as of 28 years before Marineford should not be scaled to their current power levels unless stated otherwise.

I feel similarly about Shanks 12 years ago vs Shanks the Yonko for scaling Mihawk. In that case they were in their early twneties and had reasonable room to grow, while here Whiebeard is a 44 year old veteran of the storngest crew in history and smack dab in the middle of his era. If he's not in his prime (Much much stronger than MF version) than he could only be past it already.

No word yet on how old Kaido is. What we do know is he already has history with Whitebeard, Big Mom, Shiki, Roger, & Garp and hasn't received a wound.

Ultimately we need to see more for more specifics, but Oden (With his swords) is gearing up to be very strong.

 

[CinCameron20]

I actually supported the downgrade of Mihawk to Low 6-B due to Shanks becoming Yonko 6 years ago rather then 12 (since that very clearly ended up being false info). I thought the downgrade would go through by now? Hold on, i'm gonna make a thread regarding that matter personally.

Kaido was a mere apprentice 38 years ago. He killed Oden 20 years ago. He is stated as being FAR stronger than he was back during Rocks, so i highly doubt he reached his peak by the time he killed Oden.

I'm already sitting on the idea that Oden is very strong, and could defeat the commanders and pose a threat to a Yonko, but is not at an equivalent level as WB and evidently Kaido.

 

[LordWhis]

I actually supported the downgrade of Mihawk to Low 6-B due to Shanks becoming Yonko 6 years ago rather then 12 (since that very clearly ended up being false info). I thought the downgrade would go through by now? Hold on, i'm gonna make a thread regarding that matter personally.

Kaido was a mere apprentice 38 years ago. He killed Oden 20 years ago. He is stated as being FAR stronger than he was back during Rocks, so i highly doubt he reached his peak by the time he killed Oden.

I'm already sitting on the idea that Oden is very strong, and could defeat the commanders and pose a threat to a Yonko, but is not at an equivalent level as WB and evidently Kaido.

Yet WB was peak.

Your whole argument is based on Mihawk not increasing at all in strength over the last 6 years which is just silly.

 

[CinCameron20]

>"WB was peak."

Age, yes. But who the hell says he is at his strongest 28 years prior to Marineford? No one.

>"Your whole argument is based on Mihawk not increasing at all in strength over the last 6 years which is just silly."

No, actually. My argument is that he has no reason to scale to Shanks since it's been over 12 years since they last fought. Your suggestion that Mihawk should still scale to 6-B is what's silly. And who says he didn't get stronger over time? I'm simply saying he has no reason to scale to the Yonko.

 

[LordWhis]

>"WB was peak."

Age, yes. But who the hell says he is at his strongest 28 years prior to Marineford? No one.

So you think WB was prime at Marineford......

......ok

Oden = 44 year old WB >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 72 year old cancer ridden in his deathbed WB > Kaido

 

[LordWhis]

could defeat the commanders and pose a threat to a Yonko

As Luffy vs Kaido teaches us-

There is a HUGE gap between Yonko commander and Yonko.

I still think the beast pirates ganged up on Oden or something like that.

 

[CinCameron20]

No, i do not think WB was at his prime during Marineford. This was made evident because of his illness hindering him, and also because he was wounded before he even got down to fight the Admirals.

You're simply implying WB was at his peak when he clashed with Oden with nothing to support it other than, what, him being younger? Folly

 

[LordWhis]

You're simply implying WB was at his peak when he clashed with Oden with nothing to support it other than, what, him being younger? Folly

Huh ?


Even if by sone miracle WB wasn't in his prime at 44, he was a damn sight stronger than he was at Marineford.

 

[CinCameron20]

Omg.. Prime age =/= prime in power.

You say WB at 44 is the strongest he ever was based off of nothing other then he was sickly at 72. We have NO clue how strong he became the time between age 44 and 72.

For example:

• Yes, let's assume he was at his prime in power at 44, so 44WB>72WB according to you.

• But we don't know what happened during that time-frame. He could have had a power-spike near the later years of his life, so it could look something like this (using a random age between): 52WB>>72WB>44WB But again, we don't have a clue.

As far as canon goes, we have no reason to believe WB was at his prime until a) stated by someone who knew him personally or b) we see a feat superior to his MF feat

 

[LordWhis]

That's a lot of assumptions.

 

[CinCameron20]

>a lot of assumptions.

That's quite literally the point. The assumption you're making is 44WB > 72WB. I'm providing an explanation why that can not be suggested here until otherwise proved FACT.

 

[LordWhis]

That's not how we do scaling on this wiki

 

[Blueicemonkey]

>"WB was peak."

Age, yes. But who the hell says he is at his strongest 28 years prior to Marineford? No one.

So you think WB was prime at Marineford......

......ok

Oden = 44 year old WB >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 72 year old cancer ridden in his deathbed WB > Kaido

We have seem most characters reach their peaks on their 50s. See the admirals, Kaido, Shiki, Garp, Sengoku and the like.

Peak WB was when he clashed with Roger as his rival and when he was the 'ruler' of the seas after Roger's death. Not before. That's what made most of his fame.

The current (flashback) WB is basically the one who is starting to become an Emperor of the sea.

We don't even know if he has his Devil Fruit now.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Whis - Are you not understanding what I am saying?

I am saying we can not suggest 44 y/o WB to be his peak. There's no reason to. At all.

 

[LordWhis]

The Team 7 of One Piece


The Pirate King and his 3 top commanders


The monster trio

 

[Dr.Fix]

Reading this makes me sad. I suddenly feel like Primebeard will forever remain this abstract God in people's heads. Is he Prime here? Back then? Over there? Nope, no agreement, and therefore Primebeard will always be stronger without any evidence

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

You completely misunderstand the context. Re-read. He caught him off-guard with his request to join his crew. There, you got it now?

He still blocked the blow and no, he was clearly not caught off guard. He warned his crew beforehand and blocked the blow. Stop making up your own version of events. There, you got it now?

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Whitebeard should be in his Prime or close to it here. People just want him to be stronger than he actually is. I bet some of you still think he's on par with Roger.

 

[CinCameron20]

Oh my god. Again, he was shocked when Oden just came up, attacked then went like "I want you to let me join your crew". Yes, he remarked Oden as being "incredible" in power as he approached, but how is that to say Oden is on par with him anyways? They collided once. And WB was still growing in power, which was literally stated for all the future Yonko anyways.

@Fix - I'm simply saying there's no evidence to say WB's at his strongest. There just isn't. Pointless to continue.

 

[AstralKing7]

Um no I don't even think on this site we consider gag moments liek does to effect a characters state of mind(surprised)

 

[Dr.Fix]

>>And WB was still growing in power. . .

First you say we don't know if he's prime, then you infer he is not by saying he's still growing.

I agree this is pointless to debate whether this is prime or not without a metric, just don't go back and fourth on whether it is known or unknown if he is prime or still getting stronger.

 

[CinCameron20]

Again, people lack reading comprehension, and it's bugging me.

Whitebeard was growing in power. Factual. It was stated that the previous Rocks pirates went their own ways upon defeat on God Valley, looking to attain their own goals, and develop their crew and gain power. Whether this also applies to his physical prowess is unknown -- HENCE WHY I PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED IT'S UNKNOWN IF HE IS IN HIS PRIME (though we don't even know if he has his DF at this point).

• BM and Kaido were both acclaimed as being vastly stronger than they were during Rocks.
  • While the same is not said for WB, there'd be no reason to state as such since he is already dead.

It's tiresome dealing with all of you guys who can't look back and read straight from the pages where it outright states as such, then proceed to argue how "Whitebeard is definitely at his prime when he clashed with Oden" with absolutely nothing to back up such head-canon and proceed to state it as fact.

Does no one read the manga for the story? Or are all of you skimming through in search for the next big feat? Honestly, it's tedious. This thread-chain is 95% about power-levels and not about context from the story, at all.

"ZOMG Oden = Prime WB" Reasoning: "omg they clashed once and WB had a surprised look, and WB is also 44 years old, meaning he's certainly in his prime!!" - Laughable, at best.

"ZOMG Mihawk is Yonko tier!" Reasoning: "He fought Shanks ages ago and is regarded as the Strongest Swordsman in the world! Even though there's no back-story to him, and the last time he fought Shanks was over a decade ago, this is CERTAINLY PROOF he is top tier!" - Wank as old as the chapter he and Shanks first interacted.

@Sword Guy Z is definitely the type to ignore context, especially since he has no clue what i'm speaking of. Let me spell it out for you since this is the 2nd time you've ignored what I meant by "catching WB off guard":

WB is 44, and this is 2 years after Rocks... 34 years before Marineford, and years before Roger was executed. You mean to tell me he's in his prime with no evidence, then go on to suggest Oden is Yonko tier when his only feats involve 1) Clashing with a younger WB who was still developing his crew (and surprised him with a proposition to join his crew DURING a random clash), and 2) Losing to Kaido 20 years back, where Kaido was certainly still far from his own level of power--especially since he didn't even have a territory until AFTER the fact.

 

[Dr.Fix]

That entire post amounts to:

1) A lot of insulting other members reading comprehension

2) A misconceptions of military power for individual power

3) A lot of time lines wrong

4) You completely missed that the clash was ony supportive evidence.