One Piece: Dinkleberg Quinkleturd Big Planet Shake

[Crabwhale]

 

[KingTempest]

Was asked to open this shit

 

[Cropfist]

Why?

 

[SnookB]

Why?

because they're arguing about Enel in a whitebeard thread.

 

[Kachon123]

This is ridiculous. No idea why this is getting closed because one of the many supporting calcs is under fire.

Even without the supporting calcs, I have no idea why this isn't being added. We have several verses where large tier boosts happen because of single calcs. Naruto, Eden's Zero, Dragon Ball, etc. This is only an issue for One Piece. No one questions it for other verses.

Just because a feat is far stronger than other feats preformed doesn't make it an outlier. There are other things that we need to look at.

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.

Based on the definition of a "big jump in power" according to the Outliers Page on the wiki, this does not constitute as one. The tiering difference between casually preforming 6-B by simply being angry and High 6-A at the likely peak of the fruit's power is quite small. As written on the page, the jump in the energy values is not as important as the difference in tiering (not even a full tier above).

2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.

Whitebeard barely has any feats that show his power. He only has three, with one of them being a casual quake made to discombobulate the island of Marineford the other being him trying to sink the island, and the other just being a result of him being mad that Roger asked Oden to join his crew. Whitebeard never truly had a reason to go all out with his fruit in a way where he'd need to effect the entire world.

3) Is the event unexplained and unjustified? If an extreme incident is not accompanied by any kind of explanation that justifies it, it is probably an outlier. But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not. If Superman is wounded by a bullet, it's probably an outlier. But if Superman was under the influence of red sunlight or was previously weakened with Kryptonite, it is not.

This feat is perfectly explained, and we accept it as a possibility already via this thread.

4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.

Statements do not contradict this. In fact, they support the notion that Whitebeard's quakes can effect the entire planet with Magnitude 6 quakes. If we didn't we wouldn't have 'Possibly Stellar' in his range.

5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.

This does not break the narrative. In fact, it's just putting what has been reiterated about Whitebeard for over a decade into the profiles. If this broke the narrative, Oda would not have written that Whitebeard could do this in literally every chance that he could get.

tl;dr, the double standards are shameless, focusing on enel on a whitebeard thread is ridiculous, this is not an outlier for Whitebeard, this can be accepted.

 

[KingTempest]

What he said

 

[CloverDragon03]

If this is being reopened, I'd like for the Enel stuff to be moved aside. More than anything else, this is about Whitebeard, and I believe that Whitebeard being able to destroy the world is not an outlier upon going through the criteria

 

[Eminiteable]

Kachon fra

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I’m fine with all the Whitebeard stuff

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I agree with WB's feat not being an outlier by our page standards. I do believe WB's "world destroying" narrative is rather consistent, at the bare minimum, I think that it gets passed more of the outlier stopgaps than it doesn't.

It's been a while since we talked about WB stuff with KT bringing in and updating the Enel calc, but what were the arguments for WB doing this with one attack that's like mag 6-8 on the other side of the planet as opposed to like multiple weaker attacks with the same range to destroy the world overtime?

 

[KingTempest]

I agree with WB's feat not being an outlier by our page standards. I do believe WB's "world destroying" narrative is rather consistent, at the bare minimum, I think that it gets passed more of the outlier stopgaps than it doesn't.

It's been a while since we talked about WB stuff with KT bringing in and updating the Enel calc, but what were the arguments for WB doing this with one attack that's like mag 6-8 on the other side of the planet as opposed to like multiple weaker attacks with the same range to destroy the world overtime?

You can destroy a tier 4 planet with overtime tier 6 attacks?

 

[SnookB]

opposed to like multiple weaker attacks with the same range to destroy the world overtime?

None of the statements suggest it'd be overtime. Not a single one say "he can eventually destroy the world" or "if let loose, he can destroy the world in no time", or anything alike.

As well as the fact that kabutowari's quakes seem to immediately reach an island an unknown distance away (at least far enough to not receive the news when amazon lily did), and that's an attack not even intended for AOE, but splitting a specific target's head.

 

[Kachon123]

You can destroy a tier 4 planet with overtime tier 6 attacks?

Tbf the argument for 5-C Whitebeard isn't that he could destroy the world, but rather his AP from his range.

 

[KingTempest]

The support in the other thread that Whitebeard can shake the world

3. Databook Deep Blue

Databook Deep Blue, similarly to Chapter 564's Title, flat-out states that Whitebeard has the power to shake the world with his Devil Fruit.

Assists the fact that he can directly shake the planet that far away with a decent quake

 

[Kachon123]

what were the arguments for WB doing this with one attack that's like mag 6-8 on the other side of the planet as opposed to like multiple weaker attacks with the same range to destroy the world overtime?

Because as Whitebeard's profile currently stands, his range isn't 'Possibly Stellar with multiple quakes,' but 'Possibly Stellar.' This is just calcing the AP from that.

 

[KingTempest]

My question is, with Kachon's logic... does it really constitute for a "possibly"?

 

[Eseseso]

MASSIVE Kachon W.

Also, starting to think we might not need a "possibly".

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You can destroy a tier 4 planet with overtime tier 6 attacks?

Well it would take WB roughly 300 years to destroy a planet with a GBE of ~10^42 joules with ~10^32 joule attacks, so I don't believe that matters here. If you're arguing he would shatter the planet beyond its GBE quickly, Low 5-B+ is not where he would be at.

None of the statements suggest it'd be overtime. Not a single one say "he can eventually destroy the world" or "if let loose, he can destroy the world in no time", or anything alike.

As well as the fact that kabutowari's quakes seem to immediately reach an island an unknown distance away (at least far enough to not receive the news when amazon lily did), and that's an attack not even intended for AOE, but splitting a specific target's head.

That seems to come more from an equal interpretation argument than it being the more likely interpretation. It seems that you're just taking the statement to mean a single attack because it explicitly makes no mention of a time frame, but I believe you can take that interpretation in the opposite direction of "we are given no indication of time frame or attack amount so why assume it".

Because as Whitebeard's profile currently stands, his range isn't 'Possibly Stellar with multiple quakes,' but 'Possibly Stellar.' This is just calcing the AP from that.

No I'm not saying it takes multiple quakes to reach stellar distances. I'm saying multiple WEAKER quakes with stellar distances. Like instead of one attack that deals 100 damage at 10 meters, its 10 attacks that deal 10 damage at 10 meters type beat. Does that make sense?

For all 3 of you, ig what I'm inevitably getting at is that it seems like, at least based on what I've seen right now that there isn't a good reason to take "one big attack at stellar range" over "multiple smaller attacks at stallar range" or vice versa. Which would lead to both interpretations being equal, aka possibly "one big attack". But then how does that stack with the fact that his range is already only possibly stellar? So it's like first his attacks are only possibly going that far and second it seems to me at least that they are only possibly wrecking everything with one attack.

 

[Nierre]

God ******* damn Kachon

 

[KingTempest]

Well it would take WB roughly 300 years to destroy a planet with a GBE of ~10^42 joules with ~10^32 joule attacks, so I don't believe that matters here. If you're arguing he would shatter the planet beyond its GBE quickly, Low 5-B+ is not where he would be at.

Argument really isn't the destroy the world, although that's a big support. It's mainly "mf can do above wall level damage from across the world"

 

[Kachon123]

No I'm not saying it takes multiple quakes to reach stellar distances. I'm saying multiple WEAKER quakes with stellar distances. Like instead of one attack that deals 100 damage at 10 meters, its 10 attacks that deal 10 damage at 10 meters type beat. Does that make sense?

That assumption is less likely than the presumption that it would be a single quake, as that's how we've seen all of Whitebeard's casual attacks work so far.

 

[Da3ggman]

Massive Kachin W

Got my respect for actually being a good debater and dropping the Enel shit.

 

[Kachon123]

No I'm not saying it takes multiple quakes to reach stellar distances. I'm saying multiple WEAKER quakes with stellar distances. Like instead of one attack that deals 100 damage at 10 meters, its 10 attacks that deal 10 damage at 10 meters type beat. Does that make sense?

For all 3 of you, ig what I'm inevitably getting at is that it seems like, at least based on what I've seen right now that there isn't a good reason to take "one big attack at stellar range" over "multiple smaller attacks at stallar range" or vice versa. Which would lead to both interpretations being equal, aka possibly "one big attack". But then how does that stack with the fact that his range is already only possibly stellar? So it's like first his attacks are only possibly going that far and second it seems to me at least that they are only possibly wrecking everything with one attack.

That's not how earthquakes work. Multiple waves of magnitude 4 earthquakes won't result in a larger magnitude earthquake. It would just be a prolonged magnitude 4 earthquake.

The way the Moment Magnitude scale is measured is by the amount/rate of ground/fault movement, and the effect it has on the world around us. For example, a magnitude 4 earthquake only has an amount of ground movement that would result in your table moving, but a magnitude 6 earthquake would have enough ground movement to deal damage to some structures.

Multiple magnitude 4 earthquakes wouldn't make the ground move at a greater rate, meaning it wouldn't raise the magnitude at all. Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That's not how earthquakes work. Multiple waves of magnitude 4 earthquakes won't result in a larger magnitude earthquake. It would just be a prolonged magnitude 4 earthquake.

The way the Moment Magnitude scale is measured is by the amount/rate of ground/fault movement, and the effect it has on the world around us. For example, a magnitude 4 earthquake only has an amount of ground movement that would result in your table moving, but a magnitude 6 earthquake would have enough ground movement to deal damage to some structures.

Multiple magnitude 4 earthquakes wouldn't make the ground move at a greater rate, meaning it wouldn't raise the magnitude at all. Hopefully this makes sense.

No, so my contention moreso lies with this: structures can lose integrity and weaken over time if put under continuous stress for a long period of time. So like there could be a weaker magnitude (not necessarily saying 4) over like the 12 hours of night that isn't inherently mag 8 which can cause immediate damage instantly when it hits you, destroying the shit in like a few minutes.

After discussing some stuff off site tho (ik I'm such a rat), atm I am fine with WB being "possibly 5-C" based on the 33 exaton mag 6 calc. The discussion basically resulted in Kachon showing me some links (I'll let him post them) where several magnitude 3.2-4.5 earthquakes over the span of 9 hours not doing any damage significantly, as opposed to a magnitude 6.3 earthquake leveling multiple homes quickly. Hence, I do find the mag 6 end fine as a possibly rating for his possibly Stellar range. However, I still disagree with "possibly Low 5-B+" based on the couple dozen zettaton mag 8 calc.

 

[KingTempest]

What's the issue with the mag 8 one?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What's the issue with the mag 8 one?

My issue with the mag 8 calc primarily stems from being more conservative. Plus I think it is reasonable to say WB slinging several mag 6 earthquakes across the globe is more than sufficient for him to destroy the world, in context of destroy the world being more akin to destroying everything on the surface.

 

[KingTempest]

My issue with the mag 8 calc primarily stems from being more conservative. Plus I think it is reasonable to say WB slinging several mag 6 earthquakes across the globe is more than sufficient for him to destroy the world, in context of destroy the world being more akin to destroying everything on the surface.

That's fair

 

[Eseseso]

Arc's reasoning is fine to me.

Though how about we get rid of that "possibly", eh?

 

[Nierre]

Though how about we get rid of that "possibly", eh?

If people care so much to remove the possibly, then that should be delegated for another CRT.
For now, just focus on the OP, because this thread has been derailed far too much already.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I really don't wanna poison the well so I'm gonna bring up in passing, but wouldn't this stuff sort of stop Shiki's High 6-A stuff from being outliers? Cause iirc Shiki scaling was removed cause everything else was way lower than his feats and they were deemed outliers. If I'm being dumb and wrong or bringing up stuff that isn't important to the thread, forget what I mentioned.

 

[KingTempest]

Shiki's High 6-A stuff got downgraded a while ago

 

[That_moron2]

My issue with the mag 8 calc primarily stems from being more conservative. Plus I think it is reasonable to say WB slinging several mag 6 earthquakes across the globe is more than sufficient for him to destroy the world, in context of destroy the world being more akin to destroying everything on the surface.

Its still in the Exaton range using mag 6 btw.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Its still in the Exaton range using mag 6 btw.

I am fine with WB being "possibly 5-C" based on the 33 exaton mag 6 calc.

I know moron

 

[Damage3245]

If both the Blackbeard calc and the Enel calc are no longer relevant, then I'd like to ask them to be crossed out of the OP.

I'll go through the last few posts and work on a response now that this is back open.

Also, can the OP be updated to be clear if it is 18 Exatons or 18.557 Zettatons that is being proposed here?

 

[Deceived3596]

Just for clarification, are we using the earthquake formula used in the calculation or are we now using the general KE formula that KLOL presented?

 

[Kachon123]

The latter.

 

[Damage3245]

The latter.

Thanks. I'll prepare my response with that one in mind.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Just so we're extra clear here, what's being proposed is the Magnitude 6 end of the method proposed by KLOL, resulting in 33.6 exatons

Just wanna make sure nobody's confused on this

 

[Damage3245]

Just so we're extra clear here, what's being proposed is the Magnitude 6 end of the method proposed by KLOL, resulting in 33.6 exatons

Just wanna make sure nobody's confused on this

Kachon clarified it above, but thanks anyway. The OP's been updated now too.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

You do know if it's magnitude 3 on the outside that the people on the outside wouldn't feel the damn effects, which counters the main point that got accepted in the last thread
"She would feel the effects of the earthquake and not be safe from a far distance"

It's either magnitude 6 for "damaging quake" or magnitude 8 for "tsunami causing"

This is not accurate.

if a Magnitude 3 Earthquake hit the entire planet, given how the more further the distance less the energy, this would still cause massive Tsunami's that would swallow most land. You also can feel Magnitude 3 Earthquakes.

As we move closer to the source, Whitebeard, it's only natural that the closer island would feel a much higher magnitude, we can deduce that by the very formula we use here.

This still satisfies Tsuru's line, if she was at the end of the world, she would still feel the effects of Whitebeard's power, and she wouldn't be safe as he would cause tsunamis around the entire world that would engulf everything.

Whitebeard world wiping earthquake doesn't have to be Magnitude 6 at the edge, at all.