• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece: Dinkleberg Quinkleturd Big Planet Shake

Status
Not open for further replies.
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
This is not accurate.

if a Magnitude 3 Earthquake hit the entire planet, given how the more further the distance less the energy, this would still cause massive Tsunami's that would swallow most land. You also can feel Magnitude 3 Earthquakes.

As we move closer to the source, Whitebeard, it's only natural that the closer island would feel a much higher magnitude, we can deduce that by the very formula we use here.

This still satisfies Tsuru's line, if she was at the end of the world, she would still feel the effects of Whitebeard's power, and she wouldn't be safe as he would cause tsunamis around the entire world that would engulf everything.

Whitebeard world wiping earthquake doesn't have to be Magnitude 6 at the edge, at all.
Click to expand...
We do not give a damn about no damn Tsunamis.

Gahlee nobody's talking about Tsunamis we're talking about the yield to cause any type of genuine danger to the other side of the planet

And no a mag 3 earthquake isn't causing any damn worldwide Tsunami
 
@KingTempest I don't want this to drag out so I'll definitely have a response to the thread up later today - was just busy yesterday with the other One Piece topic.
 
👁️

An Earthquake thread!

Anyways... Just want to address this message:
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
This is not accurate.

if a Magnitude 3 Earthquake hit the entire planet, given how the more further the distance less the energy, this would still cause massive Tsunami's that would swallow most land. You also can feel Magnitude 3 Earthquakes.

As we move closer to the source, Whitebeard, it's only natural that the closer island would feel a much higher magnitude, we can deduce that by the very formula we use here.

This still satisfies Tsuru's line, if she was at the end of the world, she would still feel the effects of Whitebeard's power, and she wouldn't be safe as he would cause tsunamis around the entire world that would engulf everything.

Whitebeard world wiping earthquake doesn't have to be Magnitude 6 at the edge, at all.
Click to expand...
I get where you're going with the logic of less energy as you go farther away from epicenter (that's how Earthquakes work after all), but there are 3 problems here:
  • It wouldn't really be what you described initially. 'A Magnitude 3 Earthquake hit the entire planet' would suggest Magnitude 3 shaking all around the planet equally, not Magnitude 3 in one specific place and then higher closer to the epicenter. Semantics, ik. But I'm just saying this to prevent any potential misleading.
  • For a star-sized planet, we don't gots a reliable way to model and account for the decreasing/increasing amount. The formulas for Magnitude at distances use data of our planet as model, so with a star-sized planet? That model don't work and gets thrown out the window.
  • A Magnitude 3 Earthquake is, for all intents & purposes, harmless (not even considered an Earthquake in fact as explicitly stated in our Earthquake Calculations page), especially for a star-sized planet (there won't be enough energy for even the tsunamis to travel to the other side of the planet carrying such world-threatening power due to how massive the planet is). 6 is fine as picked in the calcs above, mayyyyyyyyybe 5 (as that's the baseline for a tremor being considered an Earthquake).
So... Yeah, there's all that. Also, @KingTempest put me down as being fine with the 5-C calc (mathematically speaking).
 
Last edited:
Migue79 said:
👁️

An Earthquake thread!

Anyways... Just want to address this message:

I get where you're going with the logic of less energy as you go farther away from epicenter (that's how Earthquakes work after all), but there are 3 problems here:
  • It wouldn't really be what you described initially. 'A Magnitude 3 Earthquake hit the entire planet' would suggest Magnitude 3 shaking all around the planet equally, not Magnitude 3 in one specific place and then higher closer to the epicenter. Semantics, ik. But I'm just saying this to prevent any potential misleading.
  • For a star-sized planet, we don't gots a reliable way to model and account for the decreasing/increasing amount. The formulas for Magnitude at distances use data of our planet as model, so with a star-sized planet? That model don't work and gets thrown out the window.
  • A Magnitude 3 Earthquake is, for all intents & purposes, harmless (not even considered an Earthquake in fact as explicitly stated in our Earthquake Calculations page in fact), especially for a star-sized planet (there won't be enough energy for even the tsunamis to travel to the other side of the planet carrying such world-threatening power due to how massive the planet is). 6 is fine as picked in the calcs above, mayyyyyyyyybe 5 (as that's the baseline for a tremor being considered an Earthquake).
So... Yeah, there's all that. Also, @KingTempest put me down as being fine with the 5-C calc.
Click to expand...
Thank you 🙌🏾
 
Kachon123 said:
Checking in to for a new estimated time of posting the response, as the day is pretty much over.
Click to expand...
My predictions are accurate 50% of the time.

But yeah, got some free time soon to post my thoughts so it'll just be up in soon.
 
Sorry for the delay. I promised @Deceived3596 I would explain why I consider the calc to be an Outlier. To be upfront about it, I don't think that it fulfills all of the requirements to be considered an Outlier - but the page specifies anyway that a feat doesn't have to fulfill every single requirement to be considered one.

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.
Click to expand...

Let's look at the example given in the reasoning for not necessarily considering a jump in power to be an Outlier.

It mentions a hypothetical character who could have several city desturction feats (let's assume that means 7-B) being shown to destroy a mountain (let's assume that means 7-A). The difference between the lowest end of 7-B (6.3 Megatons) and the highest end of 7-A (1000 Megatons) is around 158x.

The difference between the 6-B calc that Whitebeard scales to right now (12.53 Teratons) and the 5-C calc in the OP (33.6 Exatons) is around 2634214x or over 2.6 million times higher.

The example in the standards is also one tier jump within Tier 7, whereas the proposed upgrade here for Whitebeard is four tier jumps: 6-B --> High 6-B --> 6-A --> High 6-A --> 5-C.

The number of tiers isn't the only important consideration here as not all tiers are the same size. A look at the energy values themselves are a lot more information about just how much more powerful this would be than Whitebeard's typical level of power. There is no specific threshold for how much higher it would take for a feat to be considered a "big jump in power". We have to use our own judgement when it comes to this, and to me, this leap of the low end of 6-B to possibly 5-C counts as a big jump in power.

I'm not automatically invalidating all jumps in power of this magnitude - context is important too, and characters going from one level of power to another extreme of power is something that happens on the wiki for one reason or another. This is just one standard for it that has to be taken into consideration.

2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.
Click to expand...

I think we can safely call this an "exceptional incident". If this was just a singular feat from Whitebeard displayed on-screen, then it would by definition be unique no matter how casually he did it, and fall below the threshold of "from the third incident onwards". But this is not the case; this is for a hypothetical feat that Whitebeard has never displayed. It is even rarer and exceptional than if Whitebeard had done it once on-screen.

As for the actual feats with the Gura Gura no Mi that the characters have done, we have a High 6-C calc, a Low 6-B+ calc, and two 6-B calcs.

The Gura Gura no Mi is not "featless" without this hypothetical world-shaking feat. And those are just the ones we've got calcs of; we've seen Whitebeard and Blackbeard use their devil fruit in combat more than just that.

It is being excused that Whitebeard never needed to use the fruit to this level of potential - but even if that were the case, that wouldn't change the fact that in terms of demonstrated feats, the proposal is quite exceptional compared to what we've actually seen.

3) Is the event unexplained and unjustified? If an extreme incident is not accompanied by any kind of explanation that justifies it, it is probably an outlier. But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not. If Superman is wounded by a bullet, it's probably an outlier. But if Superman was under the influence of red sunlight or was previously weakened with Kryptonite, it is not.
Click to expand...

The "feat" of shaking the world is explained as Kachon said, but certain liberties have to be taken in our assumptions for it.

The proposed method is that Whitebeard will shake the entire world, creating a simultaneous Magnitude 6 earthquake around the entire planet at once.

The reasoning being that Whitebeard could possibly cause global-level devastation everywhere and a Magnitude 6 earthquake is the minimum needed to cause some devastation.

Depending on interpretation, I can see how this point can be seen as the feat being justified so I won't contest it but the only form of explanation for Whitebeard holding back his power is when Sengoku said that Whitebeard will do everything he can to sink Marineford now that Ace has been rescued. However after Ace dies, Whitebeard continues fighting top-tier fighters for some time and doesn't exhibit massively increased power compared to what he showed earlier in the battle.

4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.
Click to expand...

I think I'm safe in saying that this does break the previously established power-scaling.

Comparable characters to Whitebeard do not possess feats or statements on the level of possibly 5-C. Nowhere close in fact.

5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.
Click to expand...

This part seems a bit difficult as both the "narrative" and the "event" appear to be the same thing here. It is being argued that Whitebeard should be able to do this and therefore because he should be able to do it, that makes it not be an Outlier.

If you take the narrative to be "Whitebeard can create a global Magnitude 6 earthquake" then of course a calc for a global Magnitude 6 earthquake would not contradict that narrative.

Personally I'm not convinced that Whitebeard can actually do the feat in the first place that is being calced - when I voted for a Possibly on the range, I never specified that this meant I believe that Whitebeard is capable of shaking the entire planet at once. But I can understand if others think that this requirement isn't fulfilled by the feat so I won't contest this part.



My own conclusion of the matter is that "possibly 5-C" Whitebeard is an exceptional feat (2), which is a big jump in power (1) that breaks the previously established powerscaling (4). I don't think the feat is enitirely unjustified and I don't think it necessarily breaks the narrative of the series depending on what you believe the narrative to be, but I don't think that outweights the other three standards and i'm not convinced that this is what needs to be added to the profiles.

Because a ruling based on our Outlier standards requires us to interpret how the proposal lines up with each standard, I can understand someone coming to a different conclusion on this like That_Moron and Kachon both have, but this is why I see it as an outlier for now.
 
Last edited:
Damage3245 said:
I think we can safely call this an "exceptional incident". If this was just a singular feat from Whitebeard displayed on-screen, then it would by definition be unique no matter how casually he did it, and fall below the threshold of "from the third incident onwards". But this is not the case; this is for a hypothetical feat that Whitebeard has never displayed. It is even rarer and exceptional than if Whitebeard had done it once on-screen.
Click to expand...
2)
It's over half a dozen statements of him being able to do so.
Damage3245 said:
As for the actual feats with the Gura Gura no Mi that the characters have done, we have a High 6-C calc, a Low 6-B+ calc, and two 6-B calcs.

The Gura Gura no Mi is not "featless" without this hypothetical world-shaking feat. And those are just the ones we've got calcs of; we've seen Whitebeard and Blackbeard use their devil fruit in combat more than just that.

It is being excused that Whitebeard never needed to use the fruit to this level of potential - but even if that were the case, that wouldn't change the fact that in terms of demonstrated feats, the proposal is quite exceptional compared to what we've actually seen.
Click to expand...
Idk if it needs to be this serious but there needs to be something against utilizing "is most definitely higher but can't be quantified" calculations.

Whitebeard's calculations fall under that issue.
It's been accepted to utilize tectonic affecting for WB's quakes, but his quakes break the formula to a wild extent.
Getting a magnitude 10.5 earthquake via affecting tectonic plates gives you Continent level+ yields
Those calcs you mentioned. have magnitudes of 11.029, 11.71, 11.95, and 11.949. These would be dozens to hundreds of petatons in support alone. Not including the engagement of the larger plates needed to support such a large planet.

We have him shaking islands unknown distances away, people saying he could possibly hurt them in planetary distances away, and much more.

I don't think our limits in providing values to feats should be a hindrance.

Exceptional value from our standards? Okay.
Exceptional incident? No.

Damage3245 said:
I think I'm safe in saying that this does break the previously established power-scaling.


Comparable characters to Whitebeard do not possess feats or statements on the level of possibly 5-C. Nowhere close in fact.
Click to expand...
4)
Comparable characters to Whitebeard have no type of methods of producing damage on that level. Roger hit Oden through trees and Oden' best feat is lifting a mountain sized boar with a slash.

Power-Scaling is not value based. It's scaling based. A > B > C then saying C is stronger than A, making it A > B > C > A is breaking the previously established scaling.
Somebody getting a higher tier feat just means others scale to them.

Which is why there's a disparity between point #1 and point #4. It doesn't break scaling, it just brings new feats to the table.

If East Blue Luffy got a Small Town level feat, it wouldn't break scaling. Those who scaled to 8-A would just scale to him.
Same here. New values ≠ new scaling.

Powerscaling and tiering keep getting intertwined in the wrong ways. This does nothing to affect the powerscaling. That rule is meant for outlier feats like Morgans cutting Garp or Luffy taking hits from Kizaru.
Damage3245 said:
There aren't explicit statements that say Whitebeard doesn't have Moon level AP, but there is this scene where Sengoku is astonished that Whitebeard has the power to split Marineford in half even with half his face missing. And this version of Whitebeard can still badly damage Akainu and Blackbeard.
Click to expand...
Because Whitebeard has one of the most powerful abilities in the world when it comes to destruction. There are characters on his level who haven't shown the capability to break apart a city in a strike yet he's able to crack an island in half when injured. Shoot, he's stated to be capable of sinking islands, and his first feat is a tier 6 feat which is an attempt to sink said island which was countered.

Shit, Moria did that. Punched an island in half casually.

Idk it sounds like you're trying to bring antifeats against his current rating and mask them as "antifeats above higher ones". This is a semi-antistatement for freaking 7-A, but you're using it to say it shouldn't support 5-C.
 
I know KT tackled it above but one thing Damage used as a counter bugs me

Idk why sengoku noting WB split the island is an antifeat????????????
He quite literally says "Even after LOSING HALF YOUR FACE, you have the strength to do this?"
Being surprised a guy with HALF A HEAD MISSING can output any sort of power, let alone enough power to split an island in half and an unknown distance in depth, is ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED.

This is also considering WB with a whole head attached couldn't even stand upright or release conqueror's to stop Ace from getting beheaded. Of course Sengoku will be shocked he suddenly got that much vigor.
 
SnookB said:
I know KT tackled it above but one thing bugs me

Idk why sengoku noting WB split the island is an antifeat????????????
He quite literally says "Even after LOSING HALF YOUR FACE, you have the strength to do this?"
Being surprised a guy with HALF A HEAD MISSING can output any sort of power, let alone enough power to split an island in half and an unknown distance in depth, is ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED.
Click to expand...
Fine, I'll retract that line. I thought it was worth noting.
 
For my own vanity and curiosity, can the supporting side substantiate a bit more on why the same statement being repeated makes it inherently not exceptional? Like an exceptional event, capability, etc can be corroborated extensively by multiple sources and still be exceptional.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
For my own vanity and curiosity, can the supporting side substantiate a bit more on why the same statement being repeated makes it inherently not exceptional? Like an exceptional event, capability, etc can be corroborated extensively by multiple sources and still be exceptional.
Click to expand...
The more it's said the more consistent it becomes, that's what I think anyway
 
I will say the argument that there are no other feats on the level of 5-C isn’t entirely true if Bajrang Gun, the strongest attack by another top tier, also hits tier 5.
 
DaReaperMan said:
The more it's said the more consistent it becomes, that's what I think anyway
Click to expand...
I’m not contesting its consistency at all, like I agree it’s consistent that WB has the lore of being capable of destroying the world. The next step is kinda quantifying what that exactly means, which is where my prior question comes into play. If that doesn’t make sense I can further elaborate.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
For my own vanity and curiosity, can the supporting side substantiate a bit more on why the same statement being repeated makes it inherently not exceptional? Like an exceptional event, capability, etc can be corroborated extensively by multiple sources and still be exceptional.
Click to expand...
One time incident never being mentioned again vs capability being restated frequently.

Not to put ykw on the spot but it's like how Yhwach has several statements how he's going to destroy the realms. Makes it a non one off thing.
 
MusicRelaxing said:
It is a miracle some of yall are discussing this with Arc with them having that pfp ngl
Click to expand...
Sniper Tf2 GIF - Sniper Tf2 Professionals Have Standards - Discover & Share GIFs
 
I know that there is more than one "statement" for shaking the world though I don't think necessarily everything brought up in the original thread was valid. But how many of these statements are specifically for "at least Magnitude 6"?

JJSliderman said:
I will say the argument that there are no other feats on the level of 5-C isn’t entirely true if Bajrang Gun, the strongest attack by another top tier, also hits tier 5.
Click to expand...

I said nobody comparable to Whitebeard has a 5-C feat/calc. Bajrang Gun Luffy is not comparable to Whitebeard. He currently scales far above him because there is no scaling between them.
 
KingTempest said:
One time incident never being mentioned again vs capability being restated frequently.

Not to put ykw on the spot but it's like how Yhwach has several statements how he's going to destroy the realms. Makes it a non one off thing.
Click to expand...
Ignoring the fact that the Yhwach whataboutism is not applicable here, as we have actual on screen feats regarding Yhwach.

I guess I’m not explaining myself properly, but I know the statement is not a one off statement. Like as I’ve said, I do believe that the statement in and of itself is consistent. However, I’m more interested in the interpretation of that statement rather than there being multiple iterations of that statement. Like what is exceptional is not the statement, but the interpretation that it’s a single quake of magnitude 6 across the world, that is the argument damage is making. So basically the question is, why is the interpretation that it’s a 5-C attack (as per the calc assumptions) not exceptional. Does that make sense?

Y’all meat riding my best girl Giselle pfp rn is crazy.
 
Damage3245 said:
I said nobody comparable to Whitebeard has a 5-C feat/calc. Bajrang Gun Luffy is not comparable to Whitebeard. He currently scales far above him because there is no scaling between them.
Click to expand...
He can still be stronger than WB overall but his calc gets exatons for the part that characters do scale to, since Kaen Daiko could match it.
 
Damage3245 said:
I said nobody comparable to Whitebeard has a 5-C feat/calc. Bajrang Gun Luffy is not comparable to Whitebeard. He currently scales far above him because there is no scaling between them.
Click to expand...
Fully uncompressed bajrang definitely doesn't. It scales only to Luffy. But compressed bajrang (which is 5C) was clashed and stalled by Kaido's Kaen Daiko.
He doesn't scale "far" above him. We know whitebeard has a statement of having equal vigor/strength to his younger years.
Kaido considers him a contender in strength.
G5 Luffy contends with Kaido, while having a 5C finishing move. Kaido with a 5C clash as well.
So why would WB not scale to them and have a 5C scale? it's consistent. And far less of an outlier.
Sure we don't KNOW he has a move that can be on that level, but it more than adds to it being a possibility (proven by a dozen statements of consistency, and a calc correlated to them). 5-C WB being a "possibly" does not contradict the GT scale one bit now that wano's in the mix.
 
@SnookB; we covered this in the previous thread that downgraded the God Tiers. Whitebeard currently doesn't scale to Kaidou's Kaen Daiko and currently has no reason to, even as a Possibly. (Funnily enough though, by extension if you're arguing old Whitebeard to possibly scale to that move, you'd be making around 70 other characters Possibly equal to Gear 5 Luffy's compressed Bajrang Gun. Maybe that too is fine with you but had to just mention that once i realized it).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Apollonir.Scale
  • Locked
One Piece: Magma Fruit and Earthquake Fruit Scaling
Replies
17
Views
2K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Kachon123
  • Locked
One Piece: Edward Can Shake Stars
5 6 7
Replies
276
Views
20K
KingTempest
KingTempest
KingTempest
  • Locked
One Piece: Shlinkleheard Binklebeard 5-C Scaling
2
Replies
67
Views
6K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Accelerated_Evolution
  • Locked
Battle of two 5-C Old Man (Master Roshi VS Whitebeard)
Replies
36
Views
5K
Accelerated_Evolution
Accelerated_Evolution
AnAverageUsername
Yasutora "Chad" Sado vs Edward Newgate: Fullbringer vs Yonko
Replies
34
Views
3K
Crobatman44
Crobatman44
Back
Top