One Piece: Dinkleberg Quinkleturd Big Planet Shake

[Arc7Kuroi]

So you're saying "cause they did it with the tier 7 one, doesn't mean that they did it with the tier 5 one"

Which is also flawed

Because we can see the same tools used after the tier 5 one enveloped in smoke after that explosion too.

Ofc everything is going to be covered in smoke… the explosion covered damn near half of the moon… you’d have equipment 1000s of km away from the blast covered in smoke… that’s not proof at all lol

 

[KingTempest]

Ofc everything is going to be covered in smoke… the explosion covered damn near half of the moon… you’d have equipment 1000s of km away from the blast covered in smoke… that’s not proof at all lol

We see the smoke source coming from the top of the damn tools used for the explosion in the background

The source is the shit right below them

You wanna tell me they're gonna travel planetary distances to go away from the explosion, then go planetary distances right back?

They aren't blowing shit up for fun, they're miners. They won't go thousands of miles away to mine something then go thousands of miles back.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We see the smoke source coming from the top of the damn tools used for the explosion in the background

The source is the shit right below them

You wanna tell me they're gonna travel planetary distances to go away from the explosion, then go planetary distances right back?

They aren't blowing shit up for fun, they're miners. They won't go thousands of miles away to mine something then go thousands of miles back.

Yes KT when they’re dropping nukes that span moon level distances, no shit they’re going to get away from it. That’s common sense, very simple common sense will tell you not to be near a mega nuclear explosion.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So uh, what's exactly the discussion about right now?

 

[Damage3245]

So uh, what's exactly the discussion about right now?

The Enel calc has some flaws in its current form for the durability section. We're discussing alternatives with KT now, I guess.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So uh, what's exactly the discussion about right now?

Whether or not the assumption that the equipment is actually within a couple 10s of meters from the epicenter of a an explosion kicking up debris 1000s of km across is a valid assumption. I’d just read through the 10 or so messages of back and forth KT and I have had regarding the calc. It’s not too much reading.

 

[Kachon123]

change your pfp arc.

No your logic is, they detonate explosives that create far smaller explosions (tier 8-7 eyeballing it) by detonating the explosive directly beneath the tool; therefore, they must be detonating a 5-C explosive directly beneath the same type of tool. There is nothing logically sound about that. It’s like saying so-and-so didn’t bother dodging a town level attack so they aren’t going to bother dodging a moon level attack. You’re equating two scenarios that are inherently different.

Why are those two scenarios are inherently different? Because the only difference I've heard from you claim is the size and power of the explosion. We know that the explosion is sourced from the tool, as the smoke from it was getting released from its top, similar to a chimney. There's no reason to assume the larger explosion wasn't also sourced from within the machine as well. You'd need substantial proof to claim that the explosion came from anywhere outside of the machine.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

change your pfp arc.

No

 

[KingTempest]

Yes KT when they’re dropping nukes that span moon level distances, no shit they’re going to get away from it. That’s common sense, very simple common sense will tell you not to be near a mega nuclear explosion.

Stop trying to apply common sense to this damn feat when it's a bunch of dudes blowing up moons.

They aren't traveling moon level distances away from what they're trying to blow up. Cause now that's another assumption in their mechanics.

We see the smoke from the damn tool recently leaving their machine, which means the machine wasn't set off a long while prior where they dropped whatever tool they utilized and moved.

The tool did whatever it did, pushing out large amounts of smoke and dust, and the tool producing smoke recently shows that the creation of the explosion was recent.

We know it was recent, because the mfs had smoke coming from their tools when they made the crater right below em.

So unless you want to now assume they have cannons that shoots bombs thousands of kilometers away to produce explosions, or that they set off the theoretical bomb with a lighter then start running away at Massively Hypersonic speeds, their tools were near ground zero

 

[Damage3245]

We know that the explosion is sourced from the tool, as the smoke from it was getting released from its top, similar to a chimney.

What makes you say that the smoke coming from it is the smoke from the explosion and not just smoke that the machine produces itself?

This scene where the Automata confront the Space Pirates, takes place after they gave their creator a funeral and travelled to the Moon by balloon.

As discussed earlier in the thread, it takes 3 days to travel to the Moon by rocket and presumably longer for Enel's Ark Maxim. So how long did it take these Automata to travel to the Moon by balloon?

 

[KingTempest]

What makes you say that the smoke coming from it is the smoke from the explosion and not just smoke that the machine produces itself?

Both mf, we can see the smoke from the explosion surrounding it and the smoke from the damn machine.

 

[That_moron2]

I heavily disagree with the notion of this being an outlier.
Standards are as follows.

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.

Even if the feat was isolated, then that wouldn't be enough to dismiss the calc. Its not isolated as I will explain later.

2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.

The Enel feat, and Bajrang Gun are both within spitting distance of this one.

4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.

Again, the feats listed above. On top of that no anti-feats for Whitebeard exist.

5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.

This feat is very much supported by the narrative.

I will give more detailed thoughts at a later date.

 

[Deceived3596]

The Enel feat, and Bajrang Gun are both within spitting distance of this one.

I don't see how this matters when Enel himself is vastly inferior compared to Gear 5 Luffy's base physicals, much less his strongest attack.

It doesn't provide support just because the values are similar to each other, context of who does each feat and how they stack up against one another in the general powerscaling of the series does matter to our outlier standards.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay, not being an ass here, I agree with this thread

Being an ass, WTF are these arguments against it? You don't be in the higher echelons of a type that has just under half of the ******* in that type scaling to a god-tier in some way without, you know, actually being among those *******

I get that OP strong bad, but seriously, there's a reason it's under a POSSIBLY people! This ain't solidly upgrading everyone and their cow, 6-B will still be there, it's just gonna have a "Possibly 5-C" after it!

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Being an ass

 

[Eseseso]

Okay, not being an ass here, I agree with this thread

Being an ass, WTF are these arguments against it? You don't be in the higher echelons of a type that has just under half of the ******* in that type scaling to a god-tier in some way without, you know, actually being among those *******

I get that OP strong bad, but seriously, there's a reason it's under a POSSIBLY people! This ain't solidly upgrading everyone and their cow, 6-B will still be there, it's just gonna have a "Possibly 5-C" after it!

I thought it was gonna be "high 6-A, possibly 5-C" cuz of the BB calc.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I thought it was gonna be "high 6-A, possibly 5-C" cuz of the BB calc.

No, the only possibly thing rn is WB because it’s based on his range which is accepted as possibly. Also the BB calc was conceded upon after damage debunked it

 

[Eseseso]

No, the only possibly thing rn is WB because it’s based on his range which is accepted as possibly. Also the BB calc was conceded upon after damage debunked it

Well that stinks.

 

[KingTempest]

Well that stinks.

So now it's solidly 5-C because the goobers made me bring up the 5-C calc

 

[That_moron2]

I don't see how this matters when Enel himself is vastly inferior compared to Gear 5 Luffy's base physicals, much less his strongest attack.

It doesn't provide support just because the values are similar to each other, context of who does each feat and how they stack up against one another in the general powerscaling of the series does matter to our outlier standards.

This was already adressed.

I swear I'm fighting pointless endeavors atp but idc.

I'm only going to just reply to this cause it's pretty much the same as the others.

Enel was known to be "a god" to a bunch of tier 7s. Only reason why we don't have him at higher tiers is because the wiki is goober central.

Enel was stated to have the possibility to have a bounty of the same as Ace if he touched the Blue Sea (who scales to Whitebeard) because of how troublesome his power is, and that the only reason they survived is cause Luffy's devil fruit pulled through. Enel isn't important. The large sum of his bounty would've been pointed towards his power, throwing him on the upper echelons of power.
"Other people have far higher bounties" yonko commanders and yonko who have status there as well. Ace got a 100m bounty just for his heritage.

Enel is stated by the new magazine to have one of the most powerful devil fruits, even among logias, scaling him at least relative to the other 6 logias who would scale to Whitebeard.

Enel is stated to have one of the few "invincible" devil fruits. At that point the Straw Hats have seen 3 other logias (one of them scaling to WB), and Robin was in an organization with one of them. Never said that before.

Enel has well established scaling and feats prior to that, like "being omnipotent compared to a handful of fodder tier 7s" and "one shotting every tier 7 character that comes his way", or "utilizing focused attacks to kill only specific people being calced".

On top of that, this is not a calculation of Enel. This is a calculation of the durability of the tools the Space Pirates used for their feats. Enel just scales to that. Several times.

"I think you can make a case that Enel jumping from tier 7 to tier 5 randomly could be potentially narrative breaking when prodigies like Luffy are going from like City level to Mountain/Island level in 2 years"
Luffy went from mountain to damn near multi cont in a week. This is nothing.
And the gap between tiers is not a counter for growth as it just depends on whatever our damn fancalcs mark it as. One day it could be "city to moon", next day it can be "large mountain to country".

What you said is just saying "We mark Enel at small city for scaling above a bunch of fodder. I think him scaling to higher end feats is an outlier."
That's the same shit as before when we had Whitebeard at mountain level for scaling above the likes of goofballs like Perospero, or Mihawk at mountain for scaling above Cracker.

 

[Cropfist]

What kind of thread title is this?

 

[KingTempest]

What kind of thread title is this?

If you don't like the Dinkleberg Quinkleturds then go away

 

[SeijiSetto]

That's great.

So here is the Enel calculation, which ends up scaling to the God Tiers and brings another value to the ballpark of those same guys.

We also have the desperately not wanted to be quantified far out earthquake feats of Whitebeard affecting randomly distant islands, the several handfuls of statements saying that he can destroy the world, the possible backscaling from swinging the Bajrang Gun, and whatever else.'

(i'm only lurking)
just for the record, you would have to use the planet curvature scaling formula (tl;dr unless you are infinitely far away, you will never see a planet/moon/celestial body's full diameter so the formula accounts for that) for the shot with the moon which would nerf the result a little but probably not by a huge amount

 

[KingTempest]

(i'm only lurking)
just for the record, you would have to use the planet curvature scaling formula (tl;dr unless you are infinitely far away, you will never see a planet/moon/celestial body's full diameter so the formula accounts for that) for the shot with the moon which would nerf the result a little but probably not by a huge amount

Thank you

Added the 2 new ends

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Off rip, I disagree with the scaling of Enel to 1000x above where WB is being calc'd as possibly at (10s of Zettatons vs possibly 10s of Exatons). I don't believe that aids in any type of consistency, which I already found lacking, in this tier 5 One Piece scaling. I'll get more into why (Deceived reference) if I finish up my Bleach Cour 2 anime revision post before this thread concludes.

I also disagree with WB conjuring mag 8 earthquakes on the other side of the planet, as per what I've been told off site, for the same reasons Deceived had contentions with the WB calc assumptions.

 

[KingTempest]

Edit:​

Now because this thread has spiraled into bs, the previous supporting calc has become the main calculation.
The durability of the Space Pirates' tools has been recalced to 2.07569809e32 joules, or 49.610 Zettatons

Because the previous thread also accepted the possibility of sending Tsunamis all over the world

The end in the blog above with Magnitude 8, the lowest magnitude capable required to cause Tsunamis, is now assisting the calc.
7.764401e+31 Joules or 18.557 Zettatons

So now the thread is to accept the durability of the Space PIrates' tools to Small Planet level+

New OP

Off rip, I disagree with the scaling of Enel to 1000x above where WB is being calc'd as possibly at (10s of Zettatons vs possibly 10s of Exatons). I don't believe that aids in any type of consistency, which I already found lacking, in this tier 5 One Piece scaling. I'll get more into why (Deceived reference) if I finish up my Bleach Cour 2 anime revision post before this thread concludes.

I also disagree with WB conjuring mag 8 earthquakes on the other side of the planet, as per what I've been told off site, for the same reasons Deceived had contentions with the WB calc assumptions.

You disagreeing with something accepted in the previous thread means absolutely nothing with all due respect

The last thread accepted the possibility of Whitebeard sending Tsunamis worldwide, which is Magnitude 8. Only reason why it wasn't brought up prior was because Mag 6 and Mag 8 were both accepted and Mag 6 was closer to the Enel calc for consistency purposes.

 

[Eseseso]

New OP

You disagreeing with something accepted in the previous thread means absolutely nothing with all due respect

The last thread accepted the possibility of Whitebeard sending Tsunamis worldwide, which is Magnitude 8. Only reason why it wasn't brought up prior was because Mag 6 and Mag 8 were both accepted and Mag 6 was closer to the Enel calc for consistency purposes.

OP is now Saiyan saga level.

Never thought the day would come.

 

[Damage3245]

Thank you

Added the 2 new ends

Aside from the fact that I don't think there is sufficient support in the calc for the assumption of a 1 meter distance; your new end to the calc makes the durability of the "tool" 5.7 times higher than the value of the explosion itself. For some reason you're calcing it as though the entire surface area of the "tool" was simultaneously 1 meter away from the epicenter of the explosion.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You disagreeing with something accepted in the previous thread means absolutely nothing with all due respect

The last thread accepted the possibility of Whitebeard sending Tsunamis worldwide, which is Magnitude 8. Only reason why it wasn't brought up prior was because Mag 6 and Mag 8 were both accepted and Mag 6 was closer to the Enel calc for consistency purposes.

Last I checked the previous thread did not accept inherently that the magnitude of the earthquake on the exact opposite side of the planet is mag 8. So no that is not a given, if it were a given it would have been in the OP originally, but it is as you say, you are cherry picking which magnitude to use for whatever is closer to Enel's calc. I'll go in depth tho later if the thread is still open by then (another Deceived reference).

 

[KingTempest]

Aside from the fact that I don't think there is sufficient support in the calc for the assumption of a 1 meter distance; your new end to the calc makes the durability of the "tool" 5.7 times higher than the value of the explosion itself. For some reason you're calcing it as though the entire surface area of the "tool" was simultaneously 1 meter away from the epicenter of the explosion.

Issue with the inverse square law formula then. The max the tool'd scale would be the yield of the explosion

Last I checked the previous thread did not accept inherently that the magnitude of the earthquake on the exact opposite side of the planet is mag 8. So no that is not a given, if it were a given it would have been in the OP originally, but it is as you say, you are cherry picking which magnitude to use for whatever is closer to Enel's calc. I'll go in depth tho later if the thread is still open by then (another Deceived reference).

The thread accepted the OP, which blatantly said "Whitebeard and Blackbeard can effect the entirety of the One Piece planet with the Gura Gura no Mi via Earthquakes and Tsunamis".

Which goes against the terms you speak of.

 

[Da3ggman]

Following

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Which goes against the terms you speak of.

 

[Damage3245]

Issue with the inverse square law formula then. The max the tool'd scale would be the yield of the explosion

Not an issue with the inverse-square law itself. You just can't use the formula in the way you're trying to use it.

And even if the tool was 1 meter away like you claim, you can't scale the tool to the full yield of the explosion as that'd assume that 100% of the explosion's energy was focused on the tool itself.

 

[KingTempest]

Not an issue with the inverse-square law itself. You just can't use the formula in the way you're trying to use it.

Yes it is. Depending on surface areas and distances, if the tool is a certain distance away it unintentionally provides a yield higher than the actual tool because of the mechanics of the formula.

And even if the tool was 1 meter away like you claim, you can't scale the tool to the full yield of the explosion as that'd assume that 100% of the explosion's energy was focused on the tool itself.

You've been constantly saying "we can't use A, we can't use B, we can't use C, we can't use D"

Do you have a distance we can use Damage? Or are you just gonna say no to every method involving the calc if it's above tier 10?

 

[Damage3245]

Yes it is. Depending on surface areas and distances, if the tool is a certain distance away it unintentionally provides a yield higher than the actual tool because of the mechanics of the formula.

That's only if you use an incorrect assumption for it. It should be obvious that every part of the tool's surface area can't be a simultaneous distance away from the epicenter if the distance is 1 meter.

You've been constantly saying "we can't use A, we can't use B, we can't use C, we can't use D"

Do you have a distance we can use Damage? Or are you just gonna say no to every method involving the calc if it's above tier 10?

Well, the safest solution here to me would indeed be nothing as it is an offscreen "feat" but that distance of 5824 kilometers as noted by Arc7 is probably the least worst option.

 

[KingTempest]

That's only if you use an incorrect assumption for it. It should be obvious that every part of the tool's surface area can't be a simultaneous distance away from the epicenter if the distance is 1 meter.

This is wrong.

Go to any explosion and find a distance a certain size away. The formula ends up breaking.

This isn't "this is a bad assumption taking place", this is "the formula broke"

Well, the safest solution here to me would indeed be nothing as it is an offscreen "feat" but that distance of 5824 kilometers as noted by Arc7 is probably the least worst option.

That is hilarious

 

[Eseseso]

I feel like we should get more staff in here before this devolves into multiple pages of a 2v1 between KT and the Arc-Damage duo.

 

[KingTempest]

More staff aren't going to do shit unless there's a fix for the calc

 

[Damage3245]

I feel like we should get more staff in here before this devolves into multiple pages of a 2v1 between KT and the Arc-Damage duo.

KT's new version of the calc would have to be evaluated and accepted before more staff can vote on it.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah since this thread has turned to shit I'm closing it.

Thanks a lot