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One Piece Chapter 1043: "Let us die together" (Official Release)

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I really wish the Straw Hats would lose their "no kill" code for evil scumbags.

1. It's stupid since most of the pirates and marines they spare are ungrateful bastards who will try killing them and innocents again.

2. It'd add some nice moral ambiguity to their characters. Like Luffy said, they're not heroes!
 
Eseseso said:
I really wish the Straw Hats would lose their "no kill" code for evil scumbags.

1. It's stupid since most of the pirates and marines they spare are ungrateful bastards who will try killing them and innocents again.

2. It'd add some nice moral ambiguity to their characters. Like Luffy said, they're not heroes!
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This is the only arc where I feel like an ally kill will happen.
But even then it won't be the straw hats, because that kill is Orochi and we all know who owes it to him
 
SnookB said:
This is the only arc where I feel like an ally kill will happen.
But even then it won't be the straw hats, because that kill is Orochi and we all know who owes it to him
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All this talk of killing makes me wish Oda had had Kyros kill Diamante back in Dressrosa ... It would have been completely well-deserved and very satisfying
 
Eseseso said:
I really wish the Straw Hats would lose their "no kill" code for evil scumbags.

1. It's stupid since most of the pirates and marines they spare are ungrateful bastards who will try killing them and innocents again.

2. It'd add some nice moral ambiguity to their characters. Like Luffy said, they're not heroes!
Click to expand...
Partially agreed. I can obviously buy it when it is just a soldier doing his duty, who happens to be on the opposing side, or somesuch, but there is a line beyond which certain people are just such completely irredeemable psychopathic monsters, that will keep coming and coming, and cause enormous amounts of death and suffering in their wakes, unless they are permanently put down, and Kaido, Orochi, Big Mom, and Doflamingo have all definitely crossed that line.

This isn't a neverending incoherent shared superhero universe for which such villains must be kept around for the heroes to have somebody to fight against, and contrived reasoning has to be introduced for this sake, after all. It is a self-contained story into which a certain degree of pragmatism can be introduced.
 
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Antvasima said:
Kaido
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Yes. KILL HIM.
Antvasima said:
Orochi
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to be fair, they're trying.
Antvasima said:
Big Mom
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Disagreed. She is a mentally ill person with an unimaginable amount of power, while her intentions are "good" (aka, """"end racism"'""'), her acts are borderline genocidal.
I believe she needs to be defeated, but she also needs psychological help, and to live, so she can see her dream made true by Luffy when he makes his worldwide party, bringing all races together.
Antvasima said:
Doflamingo
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Agreed. And screw that, he was already at Death's door, that KKG should have killed him.
 
Antvasima said:
Partially agreed. I can obviously buy it when it is just a soldier doing his duty, who happens to be on the opposing side, or somesuch, but there is a line beyond which certain people are just such completely irredeemable psychopathic monsters, that will keep coming and coming, and cause enormous amounts of death and suffering in their wakes, unless they are permanently put down, and Kaido, Orochi, Big Mom, and Doflamingo have all definitely crossed that line.

This isn't a neverending incoherent shared superhero universe for which such villains must be kept around for the heroes to have somebody to fight against, and contrived reasoning has to be introduced for this sake, after all. It is a self-contained story into which a certain degree of pragmatism can be introduced.
Click to expand...
Look at Metal Gear Rising and Raiden's moral code.

He doesn't like to kill soldiers who serve evil corporations (although his killer instincts enjoy it), but he knows that it's the only way to effectively stop them from stopping him from saving those in need, like child soldiers.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Disagreed. She is a mentally ill person with an unimaginable amount of power, while her intentions are "good" (aka, """"end racism"'""'), her acts are borderline genocidal.
I believe she needs to be defeated, but she also needs psychological help, and to live, so she can see her dream made true by Luffy when he makes his worldwide party, bringing all races together.
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Say what? Since when does she have a end racism and unify the world into an utopia motivation? She is a remorseless bloodthirsty cannibalistic tyrannical parasite, and was also fine with joining Kaido in starting a world war that would kill many millions to benefit herself.

Also, you cannot end bigotry by placing everybody under totalitarian rule. It has to be done via greater education, enlightenment, awareness, and understanding. These are not qualities that you can force through, and "let's kill everybody who is the least bit bigoted" is even more bigoted, so again, it is a simplistic unworkable solution.

In addition, I am technically mentally ill, and I am still trying to do what I can to make myself useful and help others. I do not go around murdering and eating them. So I do not think that supposed mental illness (which I do not think that she truly suffers from) is any good excuse.
 
Luffy killing anyone would surely break the internet. Even after everything I till don't think Luffy is the kind of guy who'd kill Akainu, Blackbeard or even Imu.
I see Kaido dying this arc if BB swoops in for his fruit, though-
 
Antvasima said:
Say what? Since when does she have a end racism and unify the world into an utopia motivation? She is a remorseless bloodthirsty cannibalistic tyrannical parasite, and was also fine with joining Kaido in starting a world war that would kill many millions.
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To be fair- she doesn't know about the whole cannibalism thing.
Her goal is to "sit with everyone at eye level", which shows that she wants everyone to be equal to each other. While down to its roots its a pure goal, the way SHE specifically is going about it is extremely wrong. She thinks equality equates to "All being of the same height and that'll make them happy." Which is just- not it.
In a way she's the only yonko (Shanks not counted) that has a "Good" motive, ignoring her execution. BB and Kaido both seek destruction.
 
Antvasima said:
Say what? Since when does she have a end racism and unify the world into an utopia motivation? She is a remorseless bloodthirsty cannibalistic tyrannical parasite, and was also fine with joining Kaido in starting a world war that would kill many millions.

Also, you cannot end bigotry by placing everybody under totalitarian rule. It has to be done via greater education, enlightenment, awareness, and understanding. These are not qualities that you can force through, and "let's kill everybody who is the least bit bigoted" is even more bigoted, so again, it is a simplistic unworkable solution.
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Sometimes I feel like quotation marks serves no purpose nowadays. In no way I said her solution was correct, or even remotely effective.
Antvasima said:
In addition, I am technically mentally ill, and I am still trying to do what I can to make myself useful and help others. I do not go around murdering and eating them. So I do not think that supposed mental illness (which I do not think that she truly suffers from) is any good excuse.
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She does. Her memory loss is proof that she isn't naturally evil, or bloodthirsty. She has very clear signs of PTSD, and Personality Disorder.

Again, stating you have a mental illness irl is not really comparable to a fictional character having that exaggerated tenfold.
 
Eseseso said:
Look at Metal Gear Rising and Raiden's moral code.

He doesn't like to kill soldiers who serve evil corporations (although his killer instincts enjoy it), but he knows that it's the only way to effectively stop them from stopping him from saving those in need, like child soldiers.
Click to expand...
In One Piece regular navy soldiers are usually so outmatched that there is no need to kill them, and they are also usually not motivated by "slavery is good", but rather by "anarchistic pirates who indiscriminately murder lots of regular people are bad". Most of them have not been portrayed as inherently bad people, just badly informed about all the atrocities that the elites are engaged in, much like the real world.
 
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SnookB said:
To be fair- she doesn't know about the whole cannibalism thing.
Her goal is to "sit with everyone at eye level", which shows that she wants everyone to be equal to each other. While down to its roots its a pure goal, the way SHE specifically is going about it is extremely wrong. She thinks equality equates to "All being of the same height and that'll make them happy." Which is just- not it.
In a way she's the only yonko (Shanks not counted) that has a "Good" motive, ignoring her execution. BB and Kaido both seek destruction.
Click to expand...
From what I recall she casually ate somebody when talking with Luffy during the Fishman Island story, and she systematically drains her subjects of life energy to empower herself.
GodlyCharmander said:
Sometimes I feel like quotation marks serves no purpose nowadays. In no way I said her solution was correct, or even remotely effective.

She does. Her memory loss is proof that she isn't naturally evil, or bloodthirsty. She has very clear signs of PTSD, and Personality Disorder.

Again, stating you have a mental illness irl is not really comparable to a fictional character having that exaggerated tenfold.
Click to expand...
She is plenty bloodthirsty in any state, and is usually quite lucid, treacherous, remorseless, and calculating. She does get psychotic compulsive binge-eating cannibalism episodes though, yes, but she is still a serious monster outside of them as well.
 
Y'all talking about killing in One Piece, but the real thing to note is no one in general dies, Oda keeps his villains alive so he can use them later

Not a single arc villain has died

I can count on my hands the amount of people who have died in present time
 
SnookB said:
Luffy killing anyone would surely break the internet. Even after everything I till don't think Luffy is the kind of guy who'd kill Akainu, Blackbeard or even Imu.
I see Kaido dying this arc if BB swoops in for his fruit, though-
Click to expand...
Exactly, Luffy was never someone that kill his opponents no matter what, same its valid for most Straw Hats aside for maybe Zoro, and even he isn't someone who actively kill his enemies.
 
Wasn't Zoro said to have killed 50 bounty hunters in Whiskey Peak?

Regardless, Kaido and Big Mom are just too evil and dangerous to keep around. It isn't rational to allow that level of powerful enemy to recover, eventually gang up on you, and then murder millions of relatively innocent people who have nobody left to defend them, and One Piece has been a quite insightful allegory for how our own world really works otherwise.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Y'all talking about killing in One Piece, but the real thing to note is no one in general dies, Oda keeps his villains alive so he can use them later

Not a single arc villain has died

I can count on my hands the amount of people who have died in present time
Click to expand...
Enelish, Vergo, Monet, Porchemy, Vander Decken, Absalom

I see Luffy being driven to the point of killing Akainu. But that’s it. Blackbeard is his rival who helped in getting Ace killed but he didn’t land the final blow. Luffy has no beef with any specific marines other than Akainu. I don’t see anyone dying by his hands except Akainu. An eye for an eye.

Luffy’s view on death is founded on something solid, which I respect. Not everybody needs to get killed off.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Exactly, Luffy was never someone that kill his opponents no matter what, same its valid for most Straw Hats aside for maybe Zoro, and even he isn't someone who actively kill his enemies.
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Robin was an assassin and Pre SH Zoro was an active murderer
 
I am not saying that Luffy himself has to land the killing blow. The remaining scabbards have a considerably greater moral right to execute Kaido for the atrocities he subjected their country to. I am just saying that allowing Kaido and Big Mom to recover, attack again, and then ravage the rest of the world, is so unrealistically naive that it sounds insane. Again, this isn't a shared superhero comic book verse.
 
Antvasima said:
I did not think that he did when reading the actual story where this happened, but I think that it was mentioned afterwards.
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Yeah Bartolomeo brought up that Zoro's famous for killing the 100 baroque works members, but we know that some survived and he did actively spare some of them.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Agreed. And screw that, he was already at Death's door, that KKG should have killed him.
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How is he even alive to begin with? The Gamma Knife destroyed his organs(would probably stuff like the brain, heart & lungs) & somehow he can stay long enough to "heal" himself with his Devil Fruit(all of this while the Birdcage was still active). Then gets smoked by Red Hawk, gets his ass kicked by Gear 4th twice eventually KOed(not sure how any of his previous injuries weren't reopened) & restrained with seastone chains. Shouldn't this nullify his Devil Fruit power thus undoing his healing?
 
Denjiro is probably the one who hates Kaido the most, due to being forced to hide his true emotions and bide his time for over 20 years while pretending to serve the people who destroyed his country. It would seem fitting if he gives Kaido the death blow.
 
Speaking of Denjiro, where even is he right now? How many chapters has it been since the last time we saw him?
 
On the question of Killing, wasn't Zoro also said to have killed Mr. 11 who was trying to recruit him into Baroque Works?
 
Anyway, I apologise if I have been too irritable and bloodthirsty above. Given what our real world looks like, I am just really sick and tired of all ruthless imperialistic psychopathic control-freak tyrants in general.
 
Antvasima said:
Anyway, I apologise if I have been too irritable and bloodthirsty above. Given what our real world looks like, I am just really sick and tired of all ruthless imperialistic psychopathic control-freak tyrants in general.
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The past few weeks have been especially bad in terms of the damage caused by psychopathic dictators
 
Yes, among other things.
 
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