One Piece Chapter 1114 Thread

[Kachon123]

Yeah sure that's why i said sanji is 80~85% of an admiral level and also Kizaru didn't use his haki or his full power yet (i mean hell we still didnt see his awakening which will complicate things even more)

When we consider that it was a killshot laser that resolved Kizaru charged, the fact that a no Haki or Jambes Exo Sanji popped the laser with a no named kick is pretty impressive. Based on what we've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if Sanji could match anything Kizaru throws at him blow for blow.

Especially when we consider Kizaru's expression and words in regards to Sanji's feat and compare it to similar interactions he's had such as Snakeman Luffy's culverin attacks, Gear 5 eating his laser, Marco throwing his body in the way of Yasakami no Magatama, and Old Rayleigh stopping his Yata no Kagami.

 

[Aerozz]

When we consider that it was a killshot laser that resolved Kizaru charged, the fact that a no Haki or Jambes Exo Sanji popped the laser with a no named kick is pretty impressive. Based on what we've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised if Sanji could match anything Kizaru throws at him blow for blow.

Especially when we consider Kizaru's expression and words in regards to Sanji's feat and compare it to similar interactions he's had such as Snakeman Luffy's culverin attacks, Gear 5 eating his laser, Marco throwing his body in the way of Yasakami no Magatama, and Old Rayleigh stopping his Yata no Kagami.

Yeah sure that doesn't necessary means he is at his level at least. kizaru didnt use his haki/ ryou (yeah i did use ryou in MF) or his full powers yet and also no full power (and yeah i actually kinda believe that kizaru is nerfed coz of vegapunk making him soft on the inside) and again i said Sanji is comparable to kizaru same as Marco but i dont think they can defeat him.

 

[Kachon123]

I don't think Marco is anywhere near comparable to Kizaru.

 

[Aerozz]

I don't think Marco is anywhere near comparable to Kizaru.

I said comparable as 80% of kizaru's Power.
how close do u think Marco or sanji compared to kizaru ?

 

[Kachon123]

I said comparable as 80% of kizaru's Power.
how close do u think Marco or sanji compared to kizaru ?

I don't like dealing with percentages and numbers in that way when talking about scaling as it can lead to a very slippery slope. I prefer to comparing stats and feats.

Marco has not shown good enough AP to harm Kizaru when given a direct shot, durability to take the force of Kizaru's laser, or heat resistance to avoid getting pierced by Kizaru's lasers. The only hope that Marco has to not immediately die in a fight with Kizaru would be to rely on his regeneration, which is dependent on his own stamina (which is inferior to Kizaru's) and can be negated by Kizaru's Haki.

Sanji on the other hand has shown good enough AP to destroy Kizaru's attacks durability great enough to be uninjured from a laser and shrug off a light-amped kick from Kizaru, and heat resistance great enough to resist lasers. Sanji has the speed and kenbun to keep up with and not lose track of Kizaru, AP to damage him, and resilience to either take attacks with minimal or just simply regenerate from them without having to waste stamina.

In a fight between the two, Marco poses no real threat to Kizaru. The only thing he can really do (which seems to be a common trend) against Kizaru is stall out his defeat via regeneration. In Marineford, the only things Marco did against Kizaru was protect Whitebeard by throwing his body in the way and avoid getting instantly taken out by using his regeneration. Kizaru is just much too fast, durable, strong, and haxy.

I do definitely think Sanji loses to Kizaru, but it's much closer to a high diff.

 

[RoyGundam]

regeneration ... can be negated by Kizaru's Haki.

This is questionable. In Marineford, the Marines required seastone to disable his regeneration

 

[RoyGundam]

Also, Sanji and Zoro are both above Marco. I thought that was made clear way back in Onigashima itself. Marco himself essentially admitted it

 

[Kachon123]

This is questionable. In Marineford, the Marines required seastone to disable his regeneration

Marines used seastone to stop Marco from helping Whitebeard after he had his heart attack, not necessarily to stop his regeneration.

 

[Kachon123]

Also, Sanji and Zoro are both above Marco. I thought that was made clear way back in Onigashima itself. Marco himself essentially admitted it

Yeah I saw Zoro and Sanji as being at least comparable to Marco if not outright superior to him the moment this panel dropped.

 

[Aerozz]

@Kachon123
IMO i see that marco actually did block Kizaru's Spam attack (idk what its called) thanks to his srength and his regen power so its not him only throwing his body for blocking it But no it needs strength too.
For sanji i do put him on marco's level or maybe a slightly better like 1~2% , But all of them still didnt fight in full powers yet.

Also Old sick WB (whos IMO weaker than BM) 2 shots an admiral (akainu whos is the strongest one) and played with other admirals.
Where Marco got the same treatment with BM (whos stronger than Old sick beard) and she admits that she doesnt want to waste her souls on Marco (Even tho i think she can 2-3 shots Marco too)

 

[SlendVeny]

Yeah sure that's why i said sanji is 80~85% of an admiral level and also Kizaru didn't use his haki or his full power yet (i mean hell we still didnt see his awakening which will complicate things even more)

Why do people keep bringing up Awakenings? There is no evidence he has it, and even if it's proven he does, bringing it up without proof beforehand would still be incorrect.

 

[Aerozz]

Why do people keep bringing up Awakenings? There is no evidence he has it, and even if it's proven he does, bringing it up without proof beforehand would still be incorrect.

Well its still a possibility. the closest answer for this is the akainu and aokiji making the landscape both ice and volcanic changing the weather for years.

 

[SlendVeny]

Yeah I saw Zoro and Sanji as being at least comparable to Marco if not outright superior to him the moment this panel dropped.

That was not a statement about them surpassing him. He was just passing the torch to the next generation after 1v1ing Big Mom, fighting King and Queen at the same time, and giving some flames to everyone.

However, him being afraid of Chopper does in fact make Chopper able to oneshot Kaidou or something funny like that, idk.

 

[SlendVeny]

Well its still a possibility. the closest answer for this is the akainu and aokiji making the landscape both ice and volcanic changing the weather for years.

That's sort of the natural effect of completely devastating an area with 2 equal forces. That said, even if they have Awakenings that do that specific thing, which has not been proven to be the effect of Logia Awakenings, how is that even combat applicable, and how does that affect Kizaru?

 

[Aerozz]

That's sort of the natural effect of completely devastating an area with 2 equal forces. That said, even if they have Awakenings that do that specific thing, which has not been proven to be the effect of Logia Awakenings, how is that even combat applicable, and how does that affect Kizaru?

Well whether Kizaru has awakening or not he is still above sanji, Coz if Kizaru's Awakening gives him so much strength, lets say as much as 2nd gear luffy then god who knows how close they would be to Yonkos, i would say at least for akainu to be near half the strength of a Yonko's power (50~60%) like be even stronger aka Strogner than Oden.

(Edit) The only thing that makes admirals Yonko level is COC coating (which is the rest of a yonko's powers the remaining 40~50% of Yonko) so Yonko would need ACOC to beat an admiral that has an awakning

 

[Kachon123]

That was not a statement about them surpassing him. He was just passing the torch to the next generation.

I don't think what Marco said was him admitting inferiority to Zoro and Sanji, but rather a statement that shows that they are at a level to where they can take his place. Marco fully trusted Zoro and Sanji to be able to finish his job for him, even calling them the "stars" of the battlefield. While it means that his era is over, I believe that is equally also applies to strength, otherwise Marco realizing that would be based on nothing.

I don't really understand how anyone can think "I will trust this person to do what I couldn't and also I'm going to retire now after seeing what he's capable of doing" with that person not being at least around their level.

 

[Fireld]

I don't like dealing with percentages and numbers in that way when talking about scaling as it can lead to a very slippery slope. I prefer to comparing stats and feats.

Same here

 

[SlendVeny]

I don't think what Marco said was him admitting inferiority to Zoro and Sanji, but rather a statement that shows that they are at a level to where they can take his place. Marco fully trusted Zoro and Sanji to be able to finish his job for him, even calling them the "stars" of the battlefield. While it means that his era is over, I believe that is equally also applies to strength, otherwise Marco realizing that would be based on nothing.

I don't really understand how anyone can think "I will trust this person to do what I couldn't and also I'm going to retire now after seeing what he's capable of doing" with that person not being at least around their level.

There's also two of them and one of him, so him trusting the two of them to do his job isn't really showing them as equals.

 

[SlendVeny]

Well whether Kizaru has awakening or not he is still above sanji, Coz if Kizaru's Awakening gives him so much strength, lets say as much as 2nd gear luffy then god who knows how close they would be to Yonkos, i would say at least for akainu to be near half the strength of a Yonko's power (50~60%) like be even stronger aka Strogner than Oden.

(Edit) The only thing that makes admirals Yonko level is COC coating (which is the rest of a yonko's powers the remaining 40~50% of Yonko) so Yonko would need ACOC to beat an admiral that has an awakning

Didn't answer my question.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

So as i said they are comparable like 80~85% of an admiral and u say no they arent, So how strong do u think they are? do admirals still one shot sanji or zoro?

I was more of just saying Zoro's considerably above Sanji, specifically in AP and Haki.
And Admirals don't one shot them, no.

 

[Aerozz]

Didn't answer my question.

I did but when u read carefully u would know.
I told u that even without awakening kizaru would be above Zoro/Sanji
and if he has awakening and it makes him 3-5x times stronger, Than he is way above (vs any admirals)
Is there is a proof of logia awakening so far? No (only the punk hazard which i assume its awakening)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I see both Zoro and Sanji beating Kizaru.

Especially with their strongest attacks.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Well I don't know about that. Neither could match his speed imo.

 

[SlendVeny]

I did but when u read carefully u would know.
I told u that even without awakening kizaru would be above Zoro/Sanji

Literally not what I asked. Maybe you should be reading carefully.

and if he has awakening and it makes him 3-5x times stronger, Than he is way above (vs any admirals)

Why would it?

 

[Aerozz]

Literally not what I asked. Maybe you should be reading carefully.

Why would it?

I already answered u lmao but u still dont read XD
I already told you no there isnt any proof
And the 3-5x times is an assumption if his awakening does do that

 

[SlendVeny]

I already answered u lmao but u still dont read XD

When did you answer how the "permanent effect" style of Awakening would provide any amplification in power? It's an easy question to answer, idk how you haven't been able to say anything.

 

[Aerozz]

When did you answer how the "permanent effect" style of Awakening would provide any amplification in power? It's an easy question to answer, idk how you haven't been able to say anything.

Bruh ur not listening.... i already told u idk but sure do u want an answer/theory on how will it be np i got you.

lets say when u control the environment it will make ur Aoe attack much bigger than normal so u would control an island/country size at will.
and u can hide and swin into them. this will makes u much stronger than ur own logia attacks

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Well I don't know about that. Neither could match his speed imo.

Didn't Zoro blitz or at least outpace and Scar Hybrid Kaido with Asura?

I see Zoro one shooting and blitzing Kizaru with an Advanced con haki attack... Similar to what he did against Lucci, People are underestimating the current Monster trio and overestimating the admirals.

Gear 4 overwhelmed kizaru in speed and overpowered his lasers, Zoro and Sanji both have the combat speed and strength to do that

Kizaru is only faster than them when he charges up and accelerates otherwise he getting cooked fr

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Didn't Zoro blitz or at least outpace and Scar Hybrid Kaido with Asura?

I see Zoro one shooting and blitzing Kizaru with an Advanced con haki attack... Similar to what he did against Lucci, People are underestimating the current Monster trio and overestimating the admirals.

Gear 4 overwhelmed kizaru in speed and overpowered his lasers, Zoro and Sanji both have the combat speed and strength to do that

Kizaru is only faster than them when he charges up and accelerates otherwise he getting cooked fr

Well yeah, but Zoro had a speed boost in that scenario. That's not his usual combat speed.
If he lands an ACoA+ACoC hit then yeah Kizaru's getting KOed fast.
Also Gear 4 didn't overwhelm Kizaru, it just had him on the defensive a bit, but he still reacted to it perfectly.
Also, Sanji doesn't have the power to put down Kizaru, so he'd lose unless we're saying it's a 1v2 between Kizaru vs Zoro and Sanji.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also, Sanji doesn't have the power to put down Kizaru, so he'd lose unless we're saying it's a 1v2 between Kizaru vs Zoro and Sanji.

Don't you think Diable Jambe or Ifrit is doing massive damage to kizaru..?

Well yeah, but Zoro had a speed boost in that scenario. That's not his usual combat speed.

Well, he was casually dodging all of Luccis hand pistol spam attacks

Something sentomaru had trouble doing even against one, who could also keep up against Kizaru and his light attacks

I see Zoro overwhelming Kizaru as well in his base speed, similar to gear 4 until needing to go accelerate from a far to land a hit

Would be cool af if Zoro overwhelmed Kizaru and then whenever Kizaru went to accelerate faster, Zoro uses An Iai attack and clashes mid movement against it... Would be a fire panel

 

[SlendVeny]

Bruh ur not listening.... i already told u idk but sure do u want an answer/theory on how will it be np i got you.

lets say when u control the environment it will make ur Aoe attack much bigger than normal so u would control an island/country size at will.
and u can hide and swin into them. this will makes u much stronger than ur own logia attacks

I suppose if that theory is true, having the environment advantage would by helpful, like Crocodile.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

When did you answer how the "permanent effect" style of Awakening would provide any amplification in power?

Awakenings attacks are more potent then their regular df attacks tho... This always been the case

But if I would imagine with awakening logias, Kizaru would be able to spawn lasers from wherever there is light and act similar to Mother Flame or Enel like this attack but much bigger and from afar which would be much more potent and destructive than his smaller sized lasers

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Is there is a proof of logia awakening so far?

I think the closest to one is punk hazard feat or Enel feat

放電や雷の具象化、雷を纏うなど自然系ならではの変幻自在な戦い方を見せた。
He showed a transformable fighting style unique to natural systems, such as discharging electricity, embodying lightning, and wearing lightning.

otherwise nah

 

[SlendVeny]

Awakenings attacks are more potent then their regular df attacks tho... This always been the case

I know that. Despite my distaste for Doffy, I know how his power, and that of the oft-overhyped Katakuri, works. I honestly would have accepted this answer.

But if I would imagine with awakening logias, Kizaru would be able to spawn lasers from wherever there is light and act similar to Mother Flame or Enel like this attack but much bigger and from afar which would be much more potent and destructive than his smaller sized lasers

That would certainly be convenient.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Don't you think Diable Jambe or Ifrit is doing massive damage to kizaru..?

No, lol. Even Star Gun didn't KO him, though it did render him paraplegic for like 3-4 minutes.
But we also see him take a enlarged buso-amped G5 punch to his head again after taking Star Gun and he gets up a few seconds after that (though it does seem he had a bad headache from it since he kept holding his head after it).
So DJ and IJ won't do much to him.

Well, he was casually dodging all of Luccis hand pistol spam attacks

Something sentomaru had trouble doing even against one, who could also keep up against Kizaru and his light attacks

I see Zoro overwhelming Kizaru as well in his base speed, similar to gear 4 until needing to go accelerate from a far to land a hit

Would be cool af if Zoro overwhelmed Kizaru and then whenever Kizaru went to accelerate faster, Zoro uses An Iai attack and clashes mid movement against it... Would be a fire panel

That's not how that works.
We see a direct comparison between Kizaru and Lucci when Lucci constantly gets outpaced by G5 and blitzed while Kizaru reacts to it frequently until Luffy locks in and blitzes him with Star Gun and Cymbal.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I honestly would have accepted this answer.

If Aerozz said it?

That would certainly be convenient.

yee... I was assuming he was going to be able to create huge lasers in egg head like Enel but nope

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We see a direct comparison between Kizaru and Lucci when Lucci constantly gets outpaced by G5 and blitzed while Kizaru reacts to it frequently until Luffy locks in and blitzes him with Star Gun and Cymbal.

... Both basically gets blitzed by a serious gear 5... I don't think there's any comparison there

That's not how that works.

It is

 

[DaMonkeMan]

... Both basically gets blitzed by a serious gear 5... I don't think there's any comparison there

It is

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I can do the same thing...

Both gets blitzed by a serious gear 5, no amount of out of contexts paneling is going to help you against that.

 

[SlendVeny]

If Aerozz said it?

I mean, it's the answer I was expecting and looking for, yeah.

yee... I was assuming he was going to be able to create huge lasers in egg head like Enel but nope

Kizzy is fodder