Fire Force 2-C removal (cont. thread)

[PrinceofPein]

This is a continuation of this thread that was closed, but anyway I was told to remake another one, which is this.
It is simple, the Standards just changed it was not in full effect the first time the last thread was made but it came into effect during the course of the thread, and with that comes changes to profiles and verses, previously the FF could have qualified for tier 2 but not anymore based on this
From the FAQ

First, note that in our terms a universe, and hence also space-time continuums and timelines, always includes all of the three dimensional space that can be reached from it. That is to say, any place that can theoretically be reached via regular three-dimensional movement alone (e.g. via spaceflight) would be considered as part of the same universe, and hence timeline, regardless of whether the fiction considers it as such.

Per default universes are assumed to have separate three-dimensional spaces, but should a piece of fiction demonstrate the opposite, destruction of several timelines connected in such a way would only be Low 2-C (Universe level+).

Second, is the case of timelines that at certain points are connected. Contrary to the case where one can always travel from one universe to the other via three-dimensional movement, it is only possible in those at certain times. In fact, at certain points in time they might be the same universe. E.g. if a timeline branches into two, then the timelines were the same universe before the branch split happened. Other way around, if two timelines get merged into one, then they are the same universe only after they were fused.
In those cases, the destruction of any one timeline is only counted if it was not connected to any other timeline for an infinite amount of time. Otherwise, if there are several timelines none of which are separate for an infinite amount of time, they would all be counted as just one timeline for the purpose of Tiering their destruction or creation.

From the space-time page draft

Time Travel:When considering "dimensions" or "universes", it is important to keep in mind that time travel should not be possible between them. Interfering with the time in one timeline should not have an effect on another timeline, as this would indicate a lack of separation.

• However, there are exceptions to this rule. Some verses may have a concept of "meta-time" that allows for such oddities, though nevertheless it is important to note that these still constitute mere exceptions and not the general norm, and evidence is required to support the claim that a higher form of time is at play

It is widely acknowledged that the existence of a dimensional wall serves as a delimiter between various dimensions. However, it is important to note that the presence of this barrier does not necessarily indicate a complete spatio-temporal separation between the dimensions in question, as defined by not occupying any points in time and space. Instead, the presence of this dividing wall simply serves to distinguish between the dimensions, even if they share a common time axis. Without the presence of this wall, the dimensions would be indistinguishable and would no longer be considered separate.

It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums.

So to summarise all this point, two universes are spatial-temporally separate, if you cannot physically travel from one point in the universe A into another universe B, also if you cannot time travel from one to another and if there are no points in A or B that are in both.
and here is the OP from the previous thread,

Shinra took an attack for Juggernaught which knocked him out and he somehow ended up in the Adolla plane with Inca
Shinra asked Inca what the Great Cataclysm is or how it will end, she replied that she does not know then, Inca mentioned that his super-light speed thing allows him to see the past, so he should travel back into the past to see what exactly happened during the last great cataclysm. Then she said "You will use your super light speed to fly into the past".
Shinra then traveled into the past, Where he saw the world or I should say Tokyo before the Great cataclysm on earth. Also the author also gave us a view of how earth 250 years ago looked like so he was obviously on earth 250 years ago.
So shinra time travelled when in the Adolla plane and ended up on earth from 250 years ago, which would not be possible if adolla and earth are in or different spacetimes, since you can obviously travel through their time and both is connected.

In summary the two worlds are not spatio-temporally separate which defeats its point of tier 2, so I propose the tier be downgrades to tier 3A for now


That said, I am not interested in arguing needlessly as this is as straightforward as it can be and please do not derail.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:


Nominated for making threads that everyone hates, also nominated for wiki's most hated

 

[Antvasima]

Why should the downgrade be to 3-A rather than Low 2-C?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Why should the downgrade be to 3-A rather than Low 2-C?

the feat involves adolla merging with the world at the current moment, and not across the entire space-time continuum, rather across the whole of time

 

[God900]

@Deceived3596

Prepare yourself

 

[Cyberblader90]

oh for the love of

 

[Deceived3596]

Pain's confirmed the Kishin with the amount of madness he's inducing on Fire Force supporters.

 

[Noneless21]

Pain's confirmed the Kishin with the amount of madness he's inducing on Fire Force supporters.

or to about 75% of the verified users here

 

[God900]

̶S̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶P̶r̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶P̶a̶i̶n̶,̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶"̶W̶a̶r̶ ̶r̶o̶o̶m̶"̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶s̶o̶n̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶

 

[PrinceofPein]

Pain's confirmed the Kishin with the amount of madness he's inducing on Fire Force supporters.

I am a supporter too, but heroes are never known till they are gone

 

[God900]

I am a supporter too, but heroes are never known till they are gone

 

[Dalesean027]

Pretty sure this was supposed to happen after they were done with the large amounts of work they were doing on soul eater, that's literally what was agreed on between you guys no? Also where's the links to all the other threads with their arguments and the blogs that they compiled

You said you'd be neutral here but this seems pretty one sidedly your points in the OP

 

[PrinceofPein]

Pretty sure this was supposed to happen after they were done with the large amounts of work they were doing on soul eater, that's literally what was agreed on between you guys no?

Agreed? No nothing was agreed

Also where's the links to all the other threads with their arguments and the blogs that they compiled

irrelevant to my claim, nothing talks about separate spatio-temporally.

You said you'd be neutral here but this seems pretty one sidedly your points in the OP

There is no point except they are not spatio-temporally separate. Also I never said I will be neutral, how can be neutral in a thread I created, I obviously agree with it
Now if you have an argument agaiinst that, be free to bring it here, I will welcome it but please dont derail this.
The FAQ and Standards are in the OP, based on showing FF will not qualify to be spatio-temporally separate, if there is an argument against that, bring it.

 

[Dalesean027]

All your points aside that just makes this weirder then knowingly doing so while even other staff and them ( and seemingly yourself) agreed that this should be held off until after their work on soul eater so doing this when you know they're extremely busy is just and yeah you said a couple of times you'd be neutral but yeah lol anywhomst

There is no point except they are not spatio-temporally separate. Also I never said I will be neutral, how can be neutral in a thread I created, I obviously agree with it
Now if you have an argument agaiinst that, be free to bring it here, I will welcome it but please dont derail this.
The FAQ and Standards are in the OP, based on showing FF will not qualify to be spatio-temporally separate, if there is an argument against that, bring it.

Regarding all of this Context is King as the saying goes and even DontTalk says he's not sure given the vague explanations you gave him so but I've made my point hopefully they have the time to give a decent amount of evidence on the spot to make their arguments

 

[Cyberblader90]

Why can we not just wait until the merge finishes

It'll be done by Sunday at the most

 

[ObberGobb]

The worst outcome of this would be "3-A, possibly 2-C." That would make Death's tier "5-B, likely 3-A, possibly 2-C" which would be horrifying to look at.

 

[PrinceofPein]

All your points aside that just makes this weirder then knowingly doing so while even other staff and them ( and seemingly yourself) agreed that this should be held off until after their work on soul eater so doing this when you know they're extremely busy is just and yeah you said a couple of times you'd be neutral but yeah lol anywhomst

I never agreed for the thread to be held off

Regarding all of this Context is King as the saying goes and even DontTalk says he's not sure given the vague explanations you gave him so but I've mad my point hopefully they have the time to give a decent amount of evidence on the spot to make their arguments

I gave DT no point, he was linked to thread, said they do not qualify but added that FF is indeed a bit of weird case anyway gave us an idea to deal with mind spaces.

So now, I will ask you to stop derailing unless you have something valid to say

Why can we not just wait until the merge finishes

It'll be done by Sunday at the most

This does not affect the merge, it simplies changes the tier

 

[Dalesean027]

I gave DT no point, he was linked to thread, said they do not qualify but added that FF is indeed a bit of weird case anyway gave us an idea to deal with mind spaces.

So now, I will ask you to stop derailing unless you have something valid to say

Bro no one's derailing you're flat out randomly lying and being underhanded about some stuff even KLOL who read the exact same thing said that's not a disagreement from DontTalk, there was never any solid disagreement from DontTalk

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-end-of-all-fire-force-tier-2-threads.148688/post-5477664

And why not honor what even a couple staff agreed on to wait for Cyber and Maitreya to finish their work on Soul eater.

Like no one cares if this "doesn't affect the merge" they're mostly preoccupied elsewhere so its very underhanded to spring this when they aren't ready and under the impression they'd be given time dude is literally asking you to wait on this in this literal thread

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bro no one's derailing you're flat out randomly lying and being underhanded about some stuff even KLOL who read the exact same thing said that's not a disagreement from DontTalk, there was never any solid disagreement from DontTalk

again how exactly is dont talk relevant here? I did not tag him or mention him.
Also I never said there was a solid disagreement from DT, but he sure as hell mentioned that it is not so then added "but it is weird so IDK", so while he does agree with my thread, he does not care enough to give a definite answer. Which is exactly what I said

I gave DT no point, he was linked to thread, said they do not qualify but added that FF is indeed a bit of weird case

so who is dishonest here?
again this is derailing to the thread whatever DT said has nothing to do with this thread as he can agree or disagree off the thread but that does not matter unless he does it on the thread so yes you are derailing.

And why not honor what even a couple staff agreed on to wait for Cyber and Maitreya to finish their work on Soul eater.

and why should I do that if it is irrelevant to my thread? they are not mutually exclusive, also they closed my thread even though I did not wnat that to happen.

Like no one cares if this "doesn't affect the merge" they're mostly preoccupied elsewhere so its very underhanded to spring this when they aren't ready and under the impression they'd be given time dude is literally asking you to wait on this in this literal thread

And do you see me rushing this thread?
They can reply, there is a grace of one week on a thread, so yes they only need to send a message debating if they have any contention per week.
So like I said there is no rush.

 

[KLOL506]

Someone didn't get the memo huh

Pain. I TOLD YOU TO HOLD IT UNTIL THE OVERHAUL BLOG WAS DONE. Why are you doing this yet again?

 

[Dalesean027]

and why should I do that if it is irrelevant to my thread? they are not mutually exclusive, also they closed my thread even though I did not wnat that to happen.

After this I'll stop but my guy your thread was thoroughly rejected before and when it was opened back up it was literally agreed that a thread like this should be created after they finish their work on soul eater.

again how exactly is dont talk relevant here? I did not tag him or mention him.
Also I never said there was a solid disagreement from DT, but he sure as hell mentioned that it is not so then added "but it is weird so IDK", so while he does agree with my thread, he does not care enough to give a definite answer. Which is exactly what I said

so who is dishonest here?
again this is derailing to the thread whatever DT said has nothing to do with this thread as he can agree or disagree off the thread but that does not matter unless he does it on the thread so yes you are derailing.

and why should I do that if it is irrelevant to my thread? they are not mutually exclusive, also they closed my thread even though I did not wnat that to happen.

And do you see me rushing this thread?
They can reply, there is a grace of one week on a thread, so yes they only need to send a message debating if they have any contention per week.
So like I said there is no rush.

And while you may not be actively rushing the thread inside the thread itself, the thread being made already promts then to have to divert attention too it and they seemingly already are feeling rushed to give a response since Cyber is literally asking if this can wait until they're done.

That's what I'm saying

 

[Shmooply]

can we unironically topic ban pein from fire force now

 

[PrinceofPein]

Someone didn't get the memo huh

Pain. I TOLD YOU TO HOLD IT UNTIL THE OVERHAUL BLOG WAS DONE. Why are you doing this yet again?

cause I am sure I can do it and no one had the right to close a thread that was not breaking any rule to begin with and this I believe is the right thing to do

And while you may not be actively rushing the thread inside the thread itself, the thread being made already promts then to have to divert attention too it and they seemingly already are feeling rushed to give a response since Cyber is literally asking if this can wait until they're done.

Well I am sure they can handle themselves, and again the threads are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Lonkitt]

cause I am sure I can do it and no one had the right to close a thread that was not breaking any rule to begin with and this I believe is the right thing to do.

While it is true you aren’t breaking any rules by posting this thread, it usually is better to hold off on stuff like this until something specific like the aforementioned merge happens as to make future revisions less of a headache to manage

 

[PrinceofPein]

While it is true you aren’t breaking any rules by posting this thread, it usually is better to hold off on stuff like this until something specific like the aforementioned merge happens as to make future revisions less of a headache to manage

I think what they are forgetting to mention is that my first thread that was closed happened before any thread about a merge, and with the way this looks like, it feels like they want to drag this on.
And also the thread for a merge is concluded already, and it has been accepted and this does not affect anything about it, what they are doing to my knowledge is creating character pages. Also, this affects only the tier of two characters in FF and I think 3 in SE.
anyway even if the merge thread is still going on, threads are not mutually exclusive

 

[Arnoldstone18]

 

[KLOL506]

cause I am sure I can do it and no one had the right to close a thread that was not breaking any rule to begin with and this I believe is the right thing to do

At this point this reeks of sheer arrogance and condescendence especially given how you call out Maitreya specifically on the title card like this. I'm tempted to have this thread closed again just on that basis.

 

[Iiliminal]

agree with upgrading shinra to High 1-A, likely 0 fra

 

[KLOL506]

I think what they are forgetting to mention is that my first thread that was closed happened before any thread about a merge, and with the way this looks like, it feels like they want to drag this on.

Doesn't seem like it to me. The merge stuff is already finished, all Cyber said was that he planned to overhaul both sides of the verses given how pitiful their conditions were. You're the one dragging it on for too long even after he said all of that.

And also the thread for a merge is concluded already, and it has been accepted and this does not affect anything about it, what they are doing to my knowledge is creating character pages. Also, this affects only the tier of two characters in FF and I think 3 in SE.
anyway even if the merge thread is still going on, threads are not mutually exclusive

It's a lot more than just character page creation and stuff. Cyber personally told me on his discord he plans to overhaul LITERALLY EVERYTHING that has to do with the verse, including already-existing pages.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i can have the sandbox out on sunday. its thursday for me.

 

[Maitreya12]

You've done it now. You’ve brought tier 1 Fire Force upon yourself Pein. I’m going to Ultima for this

 

[ObberGobb]

Tier 0 or bust

 

[Cyberblader90]

DONT YOU DARE ill send you to the coldest places in Alaska if you do

 

[KLOL506]

DONT YOU DARE ill send you to the coldest places in Alaska if you do

Pffffffft. Come to Bangladesh.

 

[Maitreya12]

Someone didn't get the memo huh

Pain. I TOLD YOU TO HOLD IT UNTIL THE OVERHAUL BLOG WAS DONE. Why are you doing this yet again?

I have the ability addition blog 3/5 of the way completed and was going to actually update my cosmology blog to accommodate these space-time standards to further prove tier 2 lol.

But deadass every time i begin to work, goons @ me on discord cause another thread was made

Anyways I’ll just post some of the other evidence I gathered showcasing Adolla/ the universe’s size and it’s relationship with time as well.

 

[Maitreya12]

DONT YOU DARE ill send you to the coldest places in Alaska if you do

They won’t stop PUSHING ME damn it

 

[Dalesean027]

Anyways I’ll just post some of the other evidence I gathered showcasing Adolla/ the universe’s size and it’s relationship with time as well.

Wait a bit on that so you can get everything completely across the way you want it

But deadass every time i begin to work, goons @ me on discord cause another thread was made

What's the @

 

[PrinceofPein]

At this point this reeks of sheer arrogance and condescendence especially given how you call out Maitreya specifically on the title card like this. I'm tempted to have this thread closed again just on that basis.

It is a joke, but well if that is bothersome, having it change is easy no need to sweat it

Doesn't seem like it to me. The merge stuff is already finished, all Cyber said was that he planned to overhaul both sides of the verses given how pitiful their conditions were. You're the one dragging it on for too long even after he said all of that.

overhaul is not stoping this

It's a lot more than just character page creation and stuff. Cyber personally told me on his discord he plans to overhaul LITERALLY EVERYTHING that has to do with the verse, including already-existing pages.

Again that is his goal, just cause I was also busy working on Shinza, assassination classroom and the tiering system, you do not see me saying everythin in the regard should be paused, if he has contentions with this he should speak, I will not put this on hold for him past the normal time

Anyways I’ll just post some of the other evidence I gathered showcasing Adolla/ the universe’s size and it’s relationship with time as well

Okay I will be expecting this rebunk

 

[KLOL506]

It is a joke, but well if that is bothersome, having it change is easy no need to sweat it

Please, just stop. Just admit you made an L, apologize and don't ever do it again, instead of wording it like "if it is bothersome I will change it". JUST DON'T DO THIS EVER AGAIN, because it really shows your intent with this thread. If you do this ever again, I WILL REPORT YOU TO THE RVT.

overhaul is not stoping this

Yes it is, and it will, I say so, and so will the staff I tag to close this thread for, especially given the recent developments mentioned by Maitreya to account for further new additions.

Again that is his goal, just cause I was also busy working on Shinza, assassination classroom and the tiering system, you do not see me saying everythin in the regard should be paused, if he has contentions with this he should speak, I will not put this on hold for him past the normal time

You act like you're the only person working on other verses and the other people aren't working on other verses.

Okay I will be expecting this rebunk

Coolio then, we can close this thread and wait for the rebunk thread instead.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Please, just stop. Just admit you made an L, apologize and don't ever do it again, instead of wording it like "if it is bothersome I will change it". JUST DON'T DO THIS EVER AGAIN, because it really shows your intent with this thread. If you do this ever again, I WILL REPORT YOU TO THE RVT.

Go ahead and report me to RVR for making a joke title, I really do not know what youa re pained about. And No, I can make a CRT title as a joke that is not offensive, and really you think my intention is to make him go crazy literally? You are funny.

Yes it is, and it will, I say so, and so will the staff I tag to close this thread for, especially given the recent developments mentioned by Maitreya to account for further new additions.

And why will they close the thread?

You act like you're the only person working on other verses and the other people aren't working on other verses.

no rather you are the one acting that way, again the thread do not hinder any ability addition anyone is planning

Coolio then, we can close this thread and wait for the rebunk thread instead.

Yeah **** no the thread stays open.
He can post his reply whenever the wiki rules gives him one week, so if he does not reply within the one week then the thread moves forward.

Also so far you have said nothing constructive to the CRT, and your obssession with this is derailing

 

[Dalesean027]

Go ahead and report me to RVR for making a joke title, I really do not know what youa re pained about. And No, I can make a CRT title as a joke that is not offensive, and really you think my intention is to make him go crazy literally? You are funny

And why will they close the thread?

no rather you are the one acting that way, again the thread do not hinder any ability addition anyone is planning

Yeah **** no the thread stays open.
He can post his reply whenever the wiki rules gives him one week

??? Dude you can't be serious right now like obviously as per these last two threads you've made your intent is the downgrade fire force but seriously, using the weeks grace as a angle to get your downgrade through when you know they're at their busiest and will have to resort to worse arguments not by choice but because they feel rushed to give a response that won't corrctly convey they're points.


Also Dude this goes back to even the reopening of the last thread after heavy rejection by trying to shoehorn an off topic response by DT in an entirely seperate thread that we me and KLOL both agreed wasn't him saying that fire force didn't qualify. This just deems weirdly targeted and the thing is you won't drop it when the opposition is asking this to wait, when staff have told you to wait, and at least 3 staff aren't okay with this currently