Low 2-C Gold Saints, and 7th Sense users (Saint Seiya)

[TheUnshakableOne]

The Low 2-C Feats in The Classic Series​

Seiya Creates a Big Bang with his punches while using his 7th sense. [1] [2]

The Gold Saints state a gold cloth could survive the shock of 2 Athena Exclamations colliding. Afterwards, Aiolia, Mu, and Milo were fine. An Exhausted and weakened Camus, Saga, and Shura (Weakened before this event) survived it and they were the ones who took the full force of the blast. [3]

Aquarius Camus Ice Coffin cannot be destroyed by even the combined power of several Gold Saints. NOTE: He does not say a couple, but several. This implies that the Ice Coffin is stronger than the Athena Exclamation. Hyoga using his 7th sense is able to break free from it. [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]
​

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The Light Novels

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Seiya created a Big Bang, but not once but twice. [9] [10]​

A velocidade máxima de um Cavaleiro de Bronze é a velocidade do som. As pessoas comuns não atingem este nível de velocidade. Mas a velocidade atingida por estes escolhidos é a velocidade da luz. As pessoas comuns não possuem ideia da imensidão da velocidade da luz, mas para os Cavaleiros de Ouro, apenas uma explosão de Cosmo é suficiente para tornar isso possível. Seu poder pode até mesmo destruir o universo.

Translation: The maximum speed of a Bronze Saint (Knight) is the speed of sound. Ordinary people do not reach this level of speed. But the speed reached by these chosen ones is the speed of light. Ordinary people have no idea of the immensity of the speed of light, but for the Golden Saints, just an explosion of Cosmo is enough to make this possible. Their power can even destroy the universe. (Page 37)

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Episode G

​

Aries Mu fights a God that can create universes. Episode G Chapter 48; and Chapter 11.

Aries Mu created a Universe, and had his power compared to a universe by a being who can create universes.


Aiolia’s Photon Burst has multiple statements of having the power of the Big Bang. This also gets directly stated in the series at chapter 58, and the Encyclopedia source also has multiple statements on this.

IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TECHNIQUE OF AIOLIA. HE TAKES TIME TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE, BUT IT HAS A POWER LIKE ****BIG BANG.****

[11]

A EXPLOSÃO DE FOTONS CONSISTE EM CONVERTER SEU COSMO EM MILHÕES DE PEQUENAS CENTELHAS QUE PENETRAN EM SEU OPONENTE E UMA VEZ DENTRO EXPLODEM. PODERIA SE DIZER QUE SIMULA A ULTIMA ETAPA DA EVOLUÇÃO DASESTRELAS, O BIG BANG.

THE PHOTO EXPLOSION CONSISTS IN CONVERTING YOUR COSMO IN MILLIONS OF SMALL SPARKS THAT PENETRAN IN YOUR OPPONENT AND ONCE IN EXPLODE. COULD SAY THAT SIMULATES THE LAST STAGE OF EVOLUTION OF THE STARS, THE BIG BANG.

[12]

IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TECHNIQUE OF AIOLIA. HE TAKES TIME TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE, BUT HAS A POWER LIKE A BIG BANG.

[13]

Aiolia’s Photon Burst is compared to Saga’s Galaxian Explosion. [14] [15]


Tenma Kofuku is also compared to both the Big Bang and Galaxian Explosion. [17]

Translation: When he releases his Cosmos that he has pushed to its climax while keeping his eyes closed, Shaka can seal Evil on the edge of the Universe. Like the Saga Galaxian Explosion, the power of this attack is similar to that of the Big Bang

Aries Shion had his power compared to the “Recreation and destruction of the Universe.” [18]


Leo Aiolia was able to break Soma. A divine weapon that Gaia made for Hyperion. [19]

YOUR HANDS RELEASE LIGHTNING THAT EXPLODE IN THE VELOCITY OF LIGHT. THE LOWER DISTANCE BETWEEN AIOLIA AND HIS ADVERSARY, THE MORE POWERFUL THE TECHNIQUE IS. IN THE DUEL AGAINST HYPERION, HIS EXTRAORDINARY POWER IS MANIFESTED BREAKING THE SOMA.

Saint Seiya Next Dimension = Shijma and Shaka destroy and create Universes. Saint Seiya Next Dimension Chapter 57 and 58

Saint Seiya Santia Sho = Shaka’s Tenbu Horin had the words of “This Universe” used when talking about it. [20] [21] [22] [23]

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Why the Low 2-C tiering?

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The Big Bang gave birth to Time alongside the Universe.

You also have to think about the Cosmology of the verse. It is a Multiverse, and the Big Bang gives rise to new space-time continuums.

How far above baseline Low 2-C?

​

Considering that Shiryu, Aiolia, Milo, Mu, and a Weakened Camus, Shura, and Saga survived this. An attack that is Low 2-C and then exponentially increasing. They should be exponentially far above baseline Low 2-C (or at least just very far into the Low 2-C Tier.)



Lastly, I am sorry this does not look nice and neat. I am still trying to get used to the new wiki's stuff.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

This is really strong evidence. I'll throw my hat into the ring for accepting it

 

[Tipper17]

I agree

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Bump

 

[Ionliosite]

Someone should ask @Matthew_Schroeder for his opinion on this, since he's a staff member who knows about Saint Seiya.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Low 2-C Gold Saints but with a caveat, I don't think some of the evidence being shown here is actually universal. There are other evidence that I agree is universal vs some of the presented here that I don't agree.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I agree with Low 2-C Gold Saints but with a caveat, I don't think some of the evidence being shown here is actually universal. There are other evidence that I agree is universal vs some of the presented here that I don't agree.

A caveat?

Is it the illustrations? I could take those out. They were just there for possible supporting evidence but they aren't really needed or necessary.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Well I'm totally watching this to see how it goes

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1. Yeah I don't think the illustrations are really that good as evidence just because people say "universe".

2. I don't think Shiryu deflecting the Athena Exclamation is as good a feat as you say. It's probably like, comparable to Genos' feat of deflecting the Psykos attack in One Punch Man where he doesn't have to match the full power (Doesn't even make sense for him to do so), they even warn that he's disrupting the clash between the two attacks that were totally matched so he wouldn't need as much to divert.

3. There are other universal feats in like some of the manga.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

1. Yeah I don't think the illustrations are really that good as evidence just because people say "universe".

2. I don't think Shiryu deflecting the Athena Exclamation is as good a feat as you say. It's probably like, comparable to Genos' feat of deflecting the Psykos attack in One Punch Man where he doesn't have to match the full power (Doesn't even make sense for him to do so), they even warn that he's disrupting the clash between the two attacks that were totally matched so he wouldn't need as much to divert.

3. There are other universal feats in like some of the manga.

Alright we can disregard the illustrations. i'll get rid of them soon.

I wouldn't say was deflecting it. He broke a deadlock and the shock wave knocked him back. He used his 7th sense to help them. The blast was also continuing to get increasingly more powerful, but due to the other feats and scaling. It can probably be tossed to the side for Shiryu.

I am missing other other Universal feats? Which ones did i miss?

 

[XDragnoir]

Isn't the last stage of stars a supernova?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This is a bump.

 

[RoyGundam]

following

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

What else is left to discusss?

Should i tag other staff??

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

@DarkDragonMedeus May I ask for your assistance here..? I am sorry if i am taking up your time..

Matt has agreed with the upgrade and we worked our our differences too. But is that enough staff support to apply the upgrades? I don't want to do anything that i'll regret lol...

 

[Bobsican]

Tagging only notifies users if the one doing it is an staff member.
You'll have to manually ask him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hi I'm here still.

 

[Bobsican]

In the meantime the way the accepted changes will be indexed and the affected profiles can be planned.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This is still a rough draft. Im going to edit it some more. I am just posting this now to save progress for later.

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Okay so the bronze saints im thinking could be worded like this.

Low 2-C (With the power of the 7th sense their power became comparable to the power of the Big Bang that created Time, alongside the Universe.)

Then we add in some additional information

Hyoga Low 2-C (Using his 7th sesne Hyoga was able to break free from the Ice Coffin which not even the combined power of several gold saints cannot break it)

Seiya Low 2-C (Seiya's physical Punches Created a Big Bang with his 7th sense. Seiya survived Saga's Galaxian Explosion which is stated to have power equivalent to the Big Bang.)

Ikki Low 2-C (Survived the Galaxian Explosion from Kanon Multiple times.)

Shun Low 2-C (Killed Pisces Aphrodite)

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The Gold Saints can be worded the same way. Low 2-C (With the power of the 7th sense their power became comparable to the power of the Big Bang that created Time, alongside the Universe. Gold Saints have to master the 7th sense, and the 7th sense is the power to allow one to become equal to a Gold saint)

With an additional line; (Gold Saints are also stated to be capable of destroying the Universe)

The other Gold Saints can also have these additional lines;

Aries Mu Low 2-C (Created a Universe, and had his power compared to the Universe by a being whom can create Universe's.)

Tarurus Aldebaran Low 2-C (Fought an inexperienced 7th sense Seiya, and was holding back against him.)

Gemini Saga Low 2-C (The Galaxian Explosion is equal to Leo Aiolia's Photon Burst. The Galaxian explosion had its power compared to the Big Bang.)

Gemini Kanon Low 2-C [Same reason as Saga]

Cancer Deathmask Low 2-C (With the power of the 7th sense their power became comparable to that of the Big Bang which created Time, alongside the Universe. Gold Saints have to master the 7th sense, and the 7th sense is the power to allow one to become equal to a Gold saint. Gold Saints are also stated to be capable of destroying the Universe)

Leo Aiolia Low 2-C (The Photon Burst was compared to the power of the Big Bang. Gemini Saga compared the Photon Burst to the Galaxian Explosion. The technique known as Lightening Bolt is equally matched with Shaka's Tenma Kofuku. Lightening Bolt was able to break the Soma a Divine Weapon created by Gaia for Hyperion to wield.)

Virgo Shaka Low 2-C (His is equally matched with Leo Aiolia using the Tenma Kofuku with his eyes closed that seals much of his power. The technique "Tenbu Horin" creates a Universe. Shaka's Tenma Kofuku matched to damage Saga, Shura, and Camus. The power of the Tenma Kofuku surprises even Aries Mu, and Aries Shion. He matched Virgo Shijma in a clash of Unagyo Vs Agyo.)

Libra Dohko Low 2-C (Is equal to Aries Shion.)

Sagittarius Aiolos Low 2-C (He is the strongest Gold Saint, and is superior to Gemini Saga.)

Scorpio Milo Low 2-C (With the power of the 7th sense their power became comparable to that of the Big Bang which created Time, alongside the Universe. Gold Saints have to master the 7th sense, and the 7th sense is the power to allow one to become equal to a Gold saint. Gold Saints are also stated to be capable of destroying the Universe)

Capricorn Shura Low 2-C (His Excalibur had Aries Mu on the defensive. Aries Mu would be killed if struck by his Excalibur technique.)

Aquarius Camus Low2-C (Stronger than Leo Aiolia)

Pisces Aphrodite Low 2-C (With the power of the 7th sense their power became comparable to that of the Big Bang which created Time, alongside the Universe. Gold Saints have to master the 7th sense, and the 7th sense is the power to allow one to become equal to a Gold saint. Gold Saints are also stated to be capable of destroying the Universe)

Aries Shion Low 2-C (He has the power to destroy and recreate the Universe.)

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I will continue this sunday. I work a lot of hours becuase of the covid Crisis.

 

[RoyGundam]

What is the base Low 2C feat that all of these are scaling to ?

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree with almost everything except Camus being stronger than Aiolia, I think it's safer to say he's stronger than Mu as we see Camus kind of bully him in the hades arc.

 

[Hasty12345]

What is the base Low 2C feat that all of these are scaling to ?

There' multiple statements which support the rating as well as Alderbaren (a weaker gold saint) being capable of catching an attack stated to have the power of the big bang from Seiya.

 

[RoyGundam]

"7th sense has the power of a Big Bang" sounds like flowery language if that's all that there is as a base feat... The episode G stuff looks solid though

 

[Hasty12345]

"7th sense has the power of a Big Bang" sounds like flowery language if that's all that there is as a base feat... The episode G stuff looks solid though

I fail to see how it's "flowery language".


I agree without G and the LN's validating the gold saints power, the Seiya feat could easily be dismissed, however, It's perfectly consistent with all the other evidence presented, and Aldebaran was visibly surprised at how quickly Seiya had achieved such power. Given all the evidence presented, it's more inconsistent for it to be flowery language as opposed to a valid statement of power.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

"7th sense has the power of a Big Bang" sounds like flowery language if that's all that there is as a base feat... The episode G stuff looks solid though

It has supporting evidence. To make a couple since I don't have much time.

Such as Camus Ice coffin, and Gold Cloths are able to withstand the shockwave of 2 athena exclamations colliding

Shun was perfectly fine jumping in front of Agyo Vs Unagyo

 

[RoyGundam]

It has supporting evidence. To make a couple since I don't have much time.

Such as Camus Ice coffin, and Gold Cloths are able to withstand the shockwave of 2 athena exclamations colliding

Shun was perfectly fine jumping in front of Agyo Vs Unagyo

In that case, I feel like the base Low 2-C feat should be Gold Saints surviving Athena Exclamation and then Bronze saints scale to that through their individual feats (esp. Hyoga's feat)

 

[Hasch]

I fail to see how it's "flowery language".


I agree without G and the LN's validating the gold saints power, the Seiya feat could easily be dismissed, however, It's perfectly consistent with all the other evidence presented, and Aldebaran was visibly surprised at how quickly Seiya had achieved such power. Given all the evidence presented, it's more inconsistent for it to be flowery language as opposed to a valid statement of power.

Because all cosmos is the power from the Big Bang, is literally the power from the universe, that's why it says "stars last stage;Big Bang and such.

The Gold Saints state a gold cloth could survive the shock of 2 Athena Exclamations colliding. Afterwards, Aiolia, Mu, and Milo were fine. An Exhausted and weakened Camus, Saga, and Shura (Weakened before this event) survived it and they were the ones who took the full force of the blast. [3]

Yeah but two AE clashing actually increase their power infinitely, and just the power from one Big Bang obliterated Shaka.

All Shiryu did was deflect most of the power away from everyone there.

Aquarius Camus Ice Coffin cannot be destroyed by even the combined power of several Gold Saints. NOTE: He does not say a couple, but several. This implies that the Ice Coffin is stronger than the Athena Exclamation. Hyoga using his 7th sense is able to break free from it. [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]

Camus is exaggerating, because you need 3 GS to do an AE which equates a BB

Aries Mu fights a God that can create universes. Episode G Chapter 48; and Chapter 11.

Aries Mu created a Universe, and had his power compared to a universe by a being who can create universes.

That's dimension Iapetos that simply made a dimension of unknown size that was then eated by Mu's Black hole like technique.

Aiolia’s Photon Burst has multiple statements of having the power of the Big Bang. This also gets directly stated in the series at chapter 58, and the Encyclopedia source also has multiple statements on this.
[11]


[12]

[13]

Aiolia’s Photon Burst is compared to Saga’s Galaxian Explosion. [14] [15]


Tenma Kofuku is also compared to both the Big Bang and Galaxian Explosion. [17]

Yet we know they need a AE to reach a BB level and GE itself is only galaxy according to the databook, and just galaxy level in the OG manga.

Saint Seiya Next Dimension = Shijma and Shaka destroy and create Universes. Saint Seiya Next Dimension Chapter 57 and 58

No they clashed concepts that represented the end and the start of a universe in a confined space.

 

[RoyGundam]

That's dimension Iapetos that simply made a dimension of unknown size that was then eated by Mu's Black hole like technique.

Iapetus isn't talking about his own dimension but rather saying that Aries Mu created a universe - If the scans are correct, this is a clear cut Low 2-C feat

Yet we know they need a AE to reach a BB level and GE itself is only galaxy according to the databook, and just galaxy level in the OG manga.

It doesn't really make sense that Kronos would be staggered by a galaxy level attack

 

[Hasch]

Iapetus isn't talking about his own dimension but rather saying that Aries Mu created a universe - If the scans are correct, this is a clear cut Low 2-C feat

But he didn't, Mu doesn't have a skill like that.

Since the 80's we have always been told that Saga's GE is galaxy level, and the standard for GS, but that 3 of them focusing all their power in a single point equates a Big Bang.

Yet we are supposed to take literally that Mu alone can create a universe?

It doesn't really make sense that Kronos would be staggered by a galaxy level attack

That was a nerfed ghost Cronos, which also was invulnerable to all of Saga's attacks either way, since he only took real damage from the golden dagger.

 

[RoyGundam]

But he didn't, Mu doesn't have a skill like that.

Since the 80's we have always been told that Saga's GE is galaxy level, and the standard for GS, but that 3 of them focusing all their power in a single point equates a Big Bang.

Yet we are supposed to take literally that Mu alone can create a universe?

Proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say. It really doesn't matter what "we have always been told" and 3 Galaxy level attacks at one point doesn't equate to one universal attack anyway

 

[Hasch]

Proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say. It really doesn't matter what "we have always been told" and 3 Galaxy level attacks at one point doesn't equate to one universal attack anyway

But the whole point of this thread is what we are told, so we must interpret things in context to differentiate hyperbole from actual feats.

It's not 3 galaxy level attacks, it's the full cosmos of 3 Golds focused in a single point where it increases exponentially beyond the limits of either of them alone. that's why AE is forbidden, it's cheap (because it's 3 on 1) and too powerful (which makes no sense if they are always launching BB level attacks to each other.

Furthermore GE is repeatedly called galaxy level and the strongest or one of the strongest GS technique in terms of AP, that takes precedence over other one time statements.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I'll respond to this later tonight.

 

[Hasty12345]

Because all cosmos is the power from the Big Bang, is literally the power from the universe, that's why it says "stars last stage;Big Bang and such.




Yeah but two AE clashing actually increase their power infinitely, and just the power from one Big Bang obliterated Shaka.

All Shiryu did was deflect most of the power away from everyone there.




Camus is exaggerating, because you need 3 GS to do an AE which equates a BB




That's dimension Iapetos that simply made a dimension of unknown size that was then eated by Mu's Black hole like technique.




Yet we know they need a AE to reach a BB level and GE itself is only galaxy according to the databook, and just galaxy level in the OG manga.

No they clashed concepts that represented the end and the start of a universe in a confined space.

The problem I have with this interpretation is your lack of distinguishing AP from DC AND assuming all universal+ attacks are equal.

I believe it is stated somewhere in the original manga cosmo is attacks a single point, thus saga can have galaxy level AoE and uni+ AP, there is no inconstancy. this is emphasised in GA when the power of Saga's GE was compared directly to the destruction of a universe - or rather a timeline:



This further supports the "agree" interpretation of the statements.

Energy is a scalar value, and is thus invariant under any sort of dimensionality. Aiolia being uni+ w/ Photon burst can still be vastly weaker than an AE of three gold saints, again, no inconsistency, it's simply just a more powerful big bang (i.e. the big bang of AE can just correspond to the destruction of a larger universe as opposed to Aiolia's own output). Furthermore, Aiolia destroyed a Titan's Soma - which from my understanding - is the titan equivalent to a cloth. How would you explain such a feat under the interpretation Aiolia (and by extension other top tier gold saints) are only galaxy level when the titans supposedly fought against the olympians whom didn't destroy any Soma's? Even with the titans being weakened, there's no reason to assume their armour is also weakened (unless you could prove otherwise). The titans have uni+ scaling via being stated to have created their own universes (), since the armour of the titans is able to tank their own attacks at full power (otherwise they'd just break) Aiolia destroying a Soma is a uni+ feat on it's own - which is again consistent with the "agreed" interpretation.

The idea of "cosmo is the power of the big bang, therefore, this is hyperbole" (apologies, i know i'm paraphrasing and am at risk of a strawman, but that's not my intention), is inconsistent with explicit statements of Mu creating a universe and the LN's statements - which both leave no ambiguity.

So i believe your interpretation to be inconsistent and you're using the words two different authors and assigning them the same meaning to downplay statements and feats which have no inconsistencies.

I'm new to this wiki, however, i do believe the idea of AP=/=DC or AoE was coined here, the idea of Saga being able to destroy galaxies but cant have uni+ AP is very (dare i say it) a "redditors" argument.

 

[Hasty12345]

But he didn't, Mu doesn't have a skill like that.

Since the 80's we have always been told that Saga's GE is galaxy level, and the standard for GS, but that 3 of them focusing all their power in a single point equates a Big Bang.

Yet we are supposed to take literally that Mu alone can create a universe?



That was a nerfed ghost Cronos, which also was invulnerable to all of Saga's attacks either way, since he only took real damage from the golden dagger.

Saga was also stated equal to the titans during that fight who have uni+ scaling:

 

[Hasch]

The problem I have with this interpretation is your lack of distinguishing AP from DC AND assuming all universal+ attacks are equal.

I believe it is stated somewhere in the original manga cosmo is attacks a single point, thus saga can have galaxy level AoE and uni+ AP, there is no inconstancy. this is emphasised in GA when the power of Saga's GE was compared directly to the destruction of a universe - or rather a timeline:

No, the AoE is restricted to a few meters and the AP is galaxy level, the quote is something like "the power of an exploding galaxy focused in a single point"

Energy is a scalar value, and is thus invariant under any sort of dimensionality. Aiolia being uni+ w/ Photon burst can still be vastly weaker than an AE of three gold saints, again, no inconsistency, it's simply just a more powerful big bang (i.e. the big bang of AE can just correspond to the destruction of a larger universe as opposed to Aiolia's own output). Furthermore, Aiolia destroyed a Titan's Soma - which from my understanding - is the titan equivalent to a cloth. How would you explain such a feat under the interpretation Aiolia (and by extension other top tier gold saints) are only galaxy level when the titans supposedly fought against the olympians whom didn't destroy any Soma's? Even with the titans being weakened, there's no reason to assume their armour is also weakened (unless you could prove otherwise). The titans have uni+ scaling via being stated to have created their own universes (), since the armour of the titans is able to tank their own attacks at full power (otherwise they'd just break) Aiolia destroying a Soma is a uni+ feat on it's own - which is again consistent with the "agreed" interpretation.

All that can be said about their soma is that it should be better than Golds armor, aside from that the Titans have several different nerf in G than drastically hamper their power and that's why the Goldds aren't obliterated by a though, armor without proper cosmos and determination is just a piece of metal

The idea of "cosmo is the power of the big bang, therefore, this is hyperbole" (apologies, i know i'm paraphrasing and am at risk of a strawman, but that's not my intention), is inconsistent with explicit statements of Mu creating a universe and the LN's statements - which both leave no ambiguity.

So i believe your interpretation to be inconsistent and you're using the words two different authors and assigning them the same meaning to downplay statements and feats which have no inconsistencies.

I'm new to this wiki, however, i do believe the idea of AP=/=DC or AoE was coined here, the idea of Saga being able to destroy galaxies but cant have uni+ AP is very (dare i say it) a "redditors" argument.

But Cosmos is literally the power of "the universe within you" even for Bronces, just moving with a bronce armor is the power of "the universe/Big Bang" within the warrior.

Saga was also stated equal to the titans during that fight who have uni+ scaling:

Saga is less than nothing compared to Hades so that simply isn't true, unless it means the extremely weakened titans than don't scale to universe+

 

[Hasty12345]

No, the AoE is restricted to a few meters and the AP is galaxy level, the quote is something like "the power of an exploding galaxy focused in a single point"



All that can be said about their soma is that it should be better than Golds armor, aside from that the Titans have several different nerf in G than drastically hamper their power and that's why the Goldds aren't obliterated by a though, armor without proper cosmos and determination is just a piece of metal




But Cosmos is literally the power of "the universe within you" even for Bronces, just moving with a bronce armor is the power of "the universe/Big Bang" within the warrior.

Saga is less than nothing compared to Hades so that simply isn't true, unless it means the extremely weakened titans than don't scale to universe+

I'm not sure how to quote single parts of your response, so I'll respond in order:

1) you're assuming static AP for GE, which makes no sense as by applying the same logic to quite literally every single saint assumes they cannot get stronger. for example, Seiya's meteor punch must still be island level despite hurting Hades. I demonstrated that Saga is comparable to an Aiolos who destroyed a universe - and had his GE stated to do the same - this further proves GE doesn't have a static AP, so my interpretation is still consistent.

2) I'm not interested in the several hampers the Titans have unless you can unequivocally prove their Soma's a weaker due to those hampers. A gold cloth's durability doesn't change with the saint - there's no reason a Soma's durability created by Gaia changes.

3) cosmos being the power of the big bang =/= AP statement. It is a statement describing what cosmos is and thus isn't at all applicable to the statements presented by the OP. furthermore, you're using the words by one author in a very specific context and asserting that is how an entirely separate statement regarding specific techniques made by another author should be interpreted. Lets consider your interpretation with Aiolia's photon burst panel: under your interpretation, the statement is redundant as saying "photon burst has power comparable to the big bang" is no different to saying "photon burst has the power of cosmo" - well no duh. This is a completely useless statement, and is inconsistent with statements explicitly stating with no ambiguity whatsoever that the gold saints can destroy the universe.

So the problem with your arguments are basically they don't hold. You're relying on static AP and ambiguous hampers that explain why the golds didn't get one-shot by the titans (which i agree with), but don't explain how Aiolia accomplished such a feat of destroying a Soma. Reactive power levels is on every single gold saint profile, Aiolia progressively getting stronger to the point he reaches uni+ and scales to the titans who created universes (as that is as far as i'm aware of is their best feat (minus cronus) is entirely consistent.

I'd also like to add as a side note and this is purely anecdotal: iirc, the titans were sealed away after defeated by the Olympians, if the titans peaked (with the exception of Cronus who's>>>>>>>>>the rest of the titans) at uni+ whilst the Olympians got stronger (which is likely since Hades and Athena fought every 200 years) there is no inconsistencies. I'd also like to add, not all Olympians should be considered the same level either, so I'm not saying all Olympians>titans (-cronus). I believe there's a lot we can infer in G about the history of the deities based on the strength of the gold saints.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew_Schroeder

What are the conclusions here?

 

[RoyGundam]

I'm not sure how to quote single parts of your response, so I'll respond in order:

You just highlight the part you want to respond to and an option pops up asking if you want to "Reply"

 

[AerrowStorm1]

OK, so brief counters.

There's no statement of Cosmo being "the Power of the Big Bang"

Instead, it's ALWAYS called burning the Universe inside you, and even the Kanji used are different. Claiming every statement of the Big Bang=Cosmo is both wrong and intellectually dishonest.