Justice for Tokyo Revengers.

[Zefra3011]

I mean, she doesn't even even think about her potential during that moment, no way she's gonna reveal it lmao

I'll cntrl c cntrl v: "As you corrected me Senju full potential isn't like DI therefore her body can easily push her to that point even if she doesn't want to, is not like going super sayian where you have to decide to activate it" "The fact that in life and death situations our body pushes ourself in order to surpass our limits isn't enough to prove she probably would have use it even if unconsciously?"

Because I don't have to? You make a positive claim, the burden of proof falls on you,

I didn't ask you to prove that, all I said is that it's an unkown situation and both side can't prove at 100% what happened, I just said that's it's more probable that she used it but I can't be sure as you can't be 100% she didn't.

Nah we saw him run up to Takemichi to save him too (which should happen in the original timeline too) Her True Potential amps her speed so we would definitely see it.

uh.... you know that in time travel stuff every single change can alter the future? Like how can you know it would have happened in the first timeline too?

 

[RoggerReggor]

It's very simple. If Senju first revealed her potential when saving Takemichi, she would look like when she first revealed her full potential vs South. She doesn't look like that when saving Takemichi.

Yeah, I agree with you, she looks way more tense than against South.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Senju needs to have a realisation, which doesn't happen at all in the gun scene.

Realization is not a thing which stops human emotions from happening (unless you haven't comprehended those emotions before which shouldn't be the case because Senju is not on the same level as some heartless human who doesn't feel emotions)

 

[Dinozxd]

"As you corrected me Senju full potential isn't like DI therefore her body can easily push her to that point even if she doesn't want to, is not like going super sayian where you have to decide to activate it" "The fact that in life and death situations our body pushes ourself in order to surpass our limits isn't enough to prove she probably would have use it even if unconsciously?"

That push doesn't happen in this scene as we don't see her revealing her potential in this scene.

uh.... you know that in time travel stuff every single change can alter the future? Like how can you know it would have happened in the first timeline too?

because nothing changed in this scene other than Senju getting shot. Nothing would change here other than that.

Yeah, I agree with you, she looks way more tense than against South.

Another stupid argument. Looking tense≠Senju revealing her potential.

Realization is not a thing which stops human emotions from happening (unless you haven't comprehended those emotions before which shouldn't be the case because Senju is not on the same level as some heartless human who doesn't feel emotions)

It's not about emotions. It's about when Senju feels them. Senju first feels that realization vs South in chapter 229. We would definitely see it if she felt it here.

These arguments are devolving into nonsense.

 

[RoggerReggor]

About the scaling chain, I still think feats performed by Mikey should only scale Mikey. Izana should be around all the three big gang leaders. There was an entire 2-year long break between Tenjiku arc and the final arc, it takes a lot of reasoning to put Izana equal to Mikey which I don't think is currently with us.

 

[Zefra3011]

That push doesn't happen in this scene as we don't see her revealing her potential in this scene.

because nothing changed in this scene other than Senju getting shot. Nothing would change here other than that.

I'm pretty sure we don't see the original scene at all... Are you making these claims based on?

 

[RoggerReggor]

Another stupid argument. Looking tense≠Senju revealing her potential.

Nah bro, Senju is not supernaturally bound, so we needn't to address that through her aura. Plus, as I said, out of 10 possibilities, 9 possibilities should be Senju revealing her potential and 1 possibility where she doesn't because she's dumb. At this point, you are considering each of my priority argument and stuff as "stupid" (which you haven't even read).

Secondly, I am still asking, how do you reason that her monologuing is not restricted to only Takeomi if her main reason was that?

It's not about emotions. It's about when Senju feels them. Senju first feels that realization vs South in chapter 229. We would definitely see it if she felt it here.

These arguments are devolving into nonsense.

As Zefra said, unconsciously thinking to reveal your potential when you are in a life-or-death situation is a much better counter to this.

 

[Dinozxd]

I'm pretty sure we don't see the original scene at all...

Original timeline=The timeline where Senju doesn't get shot other than Takemichi saving Senju and Draken getting shot which are things that all happen after Senju tries to save Takemichi.

Are you making these claims based on?

I'm making my claims based on common sense and logic. What are your claims based on?

Nah bro, Senju is not supernaturally bound, so we needn't to address that through her aura. Plus, as I said, out of 10 possibilities, 9 possibilities should be Senju revealing her potential and 1 possibility where she doesn't because she's dumb. At this point, you are considering each of my priority argument and stuff as "stupid" (which you haven't even read).

Senju being supernaturally bound has NO relevance to our topic whatsoever. You guys HAVE to address that through her aura because that's what happened when Senju revealed her true potential FOR THE FIRST TIME. You are assuming what Senju will or will not do in a situation with that "10 possibilites" argument which doesn't even count as a point cuz it has NO RELEVANCE to our topic too.

Secondly, I am still asking, how do you reason that her monologuing is not restricted to only Takeomi if her main reason was that?

I told you many times. Please go read what I was saying for 2 WHOLE PAGES.

As Zefra said, unconsciously thinking to reveal your potential when you are in a life-or-death situation is a much better counter to this.

What??? What does this even mean? You are just assuming she would reveal her true potential in a life or death situation. This doesn't make sense as we NEVER SEE HER REVEALING HER POTENTIAL HERE.

 

[Zefra3011]

Original timeline=The timeline where Senju doesn't get shot other than Takemichi saving Senju and Draken getting shot which are things that all happen after Senju tries to save Takemichi.

"takemichi saving senju" is not a small thing like "kicking a rock" things changed drastically since Senju here didn't try to save Take while she did in the first timeline

I'm making my claims based on common sense and logic. What are your claims based on?

common sense or your common sense? Anyway I never claimed that she revealed it, I said to me and based on the reasoning I provided is the most probable thing.

Senju being supernaturally bound has NO relevance to our topic whatsoever. You guys HAVE to address that through her aura because that's what happened when Senju revealed her true potential FOR THE FIRST TIME. You are assuming what Senju will or will not do in a situation with that "10 possibilites" argument which doesn't even count as a point cuz it has NO RELEVANCE to our topic too.

it does, since when we can't chose a thing the most logical thing to do is going with the one with more probability to happen.

What??? What does this even mean? You are just assuming she would reveal her true potential in a life or death situation. This doesn't make sense as we NEVER SEE HER REVEALING HER POTENTIAL HERE.

If you could actually send prove the whole scene in the first timeline you could make this claim, but we both can't therefore we must go with the most probable.

Anyway now we are just repeating so I'll quit this specific topic.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Senju being supernaturally bound has NO relevance to our topic whatsoever. You guys HAVE to address that through her aura because that's what happened when Senju revealed her true potential FOR THE FIRST TIME. You are assuming what Senju will or will not do in a situation with that "10 possibilites" argument which doesn't even count as a point cuz it has NO RELEVANCE to our topic too.

It has a lot of relevance. Secondly, author never really drew the DI aura during the first season but he himself revealed that in the final arc that he was always in the DI. Drawing or not drawing of aura is not mandatory.

I told you many times. Please go read what I was saying for 2 WHOLE PAGES.

Spent around 11 minutes on that, never found an actual argument.

What??? What does this even mean? You are just assuming she would reveal her true potential in a life or death situation. This doesn't make sense as we NEVER SEE HER REVEALING HER POTENTIAL HERE.

I am not just assuming I had shown claims to back that up.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I think whether the characters are faster or not faster than the bullets is not what we get to decide. Secondly, Senju holding back doesn't prove that alone. All of this should be brought when TR gets an actual feat where the character is against a gun and actually out speeds it.

 

[Zefra3011]

Even if she was holding back she should still be around Draken level as I explained when I proposed my scaling chain so to me if she was or wasn't at her 100% is irrelevant if the topic is if guns are an outlier.

EDIT: but well considering that now I think she probably revealed it in the first timeline makes the outlier thing even more valid imo.

 

[Dinozxd]

"takemichi saving senju" is not a small thing like "kicking a rock" things changed drastically since Senju here didn't try to save Take while she did in the first timeline

that happens after Senju saves Takemichi bruh.

Anyway I never claimed that she revealed it, I said to me and based on the reasoning I provided is the most probable thing.

most probable thing would be Senju having an aura around her after revealing her aura for the first time but that's not what happened obviously.

it does, since when we can't chose a thing the most logical thing to do is going with the one with more probability to happen.

that depends on the context.

If you could actually send prove the whole scene in the first timeline you could make this claim, but we both can't therefore we must go with the most probable.

I would have believed you immediately if you sent a proof on Senju revealing her potential but you didn't do that. "The most probable thing" would be Senju's statement.

It has a lot of relevance.

good argument.

Secondly, author never really drew the DI aura during the first season but he himself revealed that in the final arc that he was always in the DI. Drawing or not drawing of aura is not mandatory.

Anime isn't related to our topic. You know we might not see Mikey's aura even when the Three deities arc gets animated right?

Spent around 11 minutes on that, never found an actual argument.

I laughed so hard at this. Ok dude. I definitely spent hours debating you and not show a single point regarding that.

I think whether the characters are faster or not faster than the bullets is not what we get to decide. Secondly, Senju holding back doesn't prove that alone. All of this should be brought when TR gets an actual feat where the character is against a gun and actually out speeds it.

It's a point on bullet speed not being an outlier so we're discussing it. "TR gets an actual feat where the character is aganist a gun and actually outspeeds it" How about we remove the outlier until a character blatantly gets outsped by a gun then? I don't get you guys at all. You guys can't even debunk the verse with concrete evidence and say stuff like this.

Even if she was holding back she should still be around Draken level as I explained when I proposed my scaling chain so to me if she was or wasn't at her 100% is irrelevant if the topic is if guns are an outlier.

EDIT: but well considering that now I think she probably revealed it in the first timeline makes the outlier thing even more valid imo.

That was what I believed at first but no. Casual Senju isn't Draken lvl. Also, please don't run away from an important discussion like this. You do this every time.

Yeah ignore all my points just like that. Sweet.

 

[Zefra3011]

Senju < 100% is around Draken level, Draken was able to beat 100 guys with some damaged taken while Senju could beat the same amount of guys without taking damage and is impossible that there she was using his 100% because saying this is the same thing as claiming that 100 guys are South level, with this I'm not saying she is superior but putting her around his level should be good, also she was able to tank one attack fom South without much problems while Draken wth 3 hits was KO, another thing is that Senju clearly saw South level while he was fightin Wakasa and Benkei, still she decided to fight him by her own before evealing his true potential, I strongly believe it's safe to put holding back Senju around Draken level, she also trained with Wakasa and benkei and f I'm not wronge Wakasa said she was a good fighter which supports everything very well.

 

[Dinozxd]

OMG you guys are actually trolling. Senju beat 100 guys after revealing her true potential so she was not Casual there. Also, how would Senju beating 100 guys at her true potential make those 100 guys equal to South? That doesn't even make sense. Training with someone doesn't mean you are as fast as them and you know that. Bruh, No names attempt to fight Mikey even though they know his strength. That doesn't mean they are comparable to them. You can call someone a good fighter but that doesn't scale them anywhere.

 

[Zefra3011]

Because if Senju needs to use her full potential, so she has to go all out, for beating 100% goons it means South is more less 100 goons level because in order to beat him Senju had to use it and when she uses it she no diff both so....
The others point were just as supportive evidence, regardless, when do goons fight Mikey in 1v1?

 

[Dinozxd]

Because if Senju needs to use her full potential so she has to go all out for beating 100% goons it means South is more less 100 goons level because in order to beat him Senju had to use it and when she uses it she no diff both so....

Senju revealing her potential is a one time thing. She revealed it in chapter 229 first and continued using her true potential. True Potential Senju no diffs 100 goons and gets defeated by South so South>>>>100 goons...

when do goons fight Mikey in 1v1?

they don't but they try to fight him in groups. Mikey stated that he can defeat 20.000 goons at once. Even if it was an exaggerated statement, a few goons are not a problem for Mikey.

 

[Zefra3011]

I doubt she would put all her effort to beat 100 goons

I asked when a goon fought Mikey in 1v1, I only remember in the first act but they were in group

 

[Dinozxd]

I doubt she would put all her effort to beat 100 goons

Her using her true potential doesn't mean she put all her effort. Like I said, true potential Senju isn't a form, it's more of a limiter like Takemichi's resolution.

asked when a goon fought Mikey in 1v1, I only remember in the first act but they were in group

yes you remember right

 

[RoggerReggor]

good argument.

Thanks for the flattery.

Anime isn't related to our topic. You know we might not see Mikey's aura even when the Three deities arc gets animated right?

Exactly lol. So how do you expect the author to draw the aura every time lol?

I laughed so hard at this. Ok dude. I definitely spent hours debating you and not show a single point regarding that.

Stop pretending you are the only one being annoyed.

Again, any proof for the thing not being only limited to Takeomi? (Asking for the fifth time I guess so)

It's a point on bullet speed not being an outlier so we're discussing it. "TR gets an actual feat where the character is aganist a gun and actually outspeeds it" How about we remove the outlier until a character blatantly gets outsped by a gun then? I don't get you guys at all.

It's not. And even if it was, it would be much better to do it when a character actually does it. (Now don't say this is to address the outliers argument, I already said why it would still make sense even then)

You guys can't even debunk the verse with concrete evidence and say stuff like this.

As I said, stop acting all mighty. You are becoming the reason for TR's negligence. Secondly, Zefra has participated in downgrades of almost every speed feat which was listed before in the verse, and has given much evidence against them, has been appreciated and what not, and you are still stuck on thinking you are the only intellectual one here. Not cool. Plus, I have found many cases in RvR where people have been topic-banned for similar stuff. Don't take this as a warning, take this as a request, be calm bud.

 

[Dinozxd]

Plus, I have found many cases in RvR where people have been topic-banned for similar stuff. Don't take this as a warning, take this as a request, be calm bud.

Well you have a point here. I kinda came off as rude and i'm sorry if that hurt anyone. I'll answer to you after school. You sometimes gotta take a break after participating in a thread for 4 pages lol.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dalesean027 @Deagonx

So has anything been accepted here, and should we write any discussion rules for this verse now?

 

[Dinozxd]

Exactly lol. So how do you expect the author to draw the aura every time lol?

Because that's the indication of Senju using her aura for first time. She didn't use it when saving Takemichi.

Again, any proof for the thing not being only limited to Takeomi? (Asking for the fifth time I guess so)

I gave some proofs here, here and here.

It's not.

Senju not being able to save Takemichi was mentioned to be an argument about the outlier.

And even if it was, it would be much better to do it when a character actually does it.

Don't you think it would be better to debunk a verse if the characters of the verse actually gets outsped by a gun? Because that's definitely not the case here...

(Now don't say this is to address the outliers argument, I already said why it would still make sense even then)

You said that Senju's case would not prove the outlier wrong single handedly as I remember. I agree with you, but it's still an argument and should be discussed.

Also, I don't understand why are you guys treating Senju's True Potential as her on full power. It's literally in the name: "True". Base Senju can still use her full power without using her True Potential. True Potential is a much different thing than Base Senju at full power. You can think of it like South's Urges. South can still use his full power at base and can still be faster when he activates his Urges. Hope I explained it well.

 

[Zefra3011]

yes you remember right

Since I remember it correctly then no one tried to face Mikey in 1v1 right? Therefore the fact that Base Senju was ready to fight South in 1v1 after seeing his 100% should be enough to prove he is more less Draken level, she also tanked his punch, a captain level would have been onehsotted, Draken was down in 3 hits.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Since I remember it correctly then no one tried to face Mikey in 1v1 right? Therefore the fact that Base Senju was ready to fight South in 1v1 after seeing his 100% should be enough to prove he is more less Draken level, she also tanked his punch, a captain level would have been onehsotted, Draken was down in 3 hits.

Pah-Chin initiated the fight he had against Mikey even knowing Mikey is massively superior, that's not how it works.

 

[Dinozxd]

Since I remember it correctly then no one tried to face Mikey in 1v1 right? Therefore the fact that Base Senju was ready to fight South in 1v1 after seeing his 100%

Groups of goons ain't comparable to Mikey as well, yet they still attempt to fight him.

she also tanked his punch, a captain level would have been onehsotted, Draken was down in 3 hits.

That just scales to her dura. Nothing implies that she matched South's speed.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dalesean027 @Deagonx

So has anything been accepted here, and should we write any discussion rules for this verse now?

@Dalesean027 @Deagonx @DMUA

If you or other staff members write some suggested new discussion rules based on your experiences regarding what needs to be done regarding this verse, I can probably clear them to be applied afterwards.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

That just scales to her dura. Nothing implies that she matched South's speed.

I mean, she clearly couldn't do anything to the first punch delivered by South, clearly she dont scale to it

 

[Dalesean027]

@Dalesean027 @Deagonx

So has anything been accepted here, and should we write any discussion rules for this verse now?

Not yet I've still not made a post to cover my rhoughts as I've been really busy with work these last couple of days and I unfortunately will be today as well so its leaving me with little time here

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Not yet I've still not made a post to cover my rhoughts as I've been really busy with work these last couple of days and I unfortunately will be today as well so its leaving me with little time here

Patience.

 

[Antvasima]

Not yet I've still not made a post to cover my rhoughts as I've been really busy with work these last couple of days and I unfortunately will be today as well so its leaving me with little time here

Okay. No problem.

 

[Dinozxd]

@Antvasima Umm... Dale accepted a point here regarding the 3rd point (Clarifying Izana's feat). I already calced the feat here (with Dale's suggestion) but messed up the pixel scaling. Can I remake the feat?

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima Umm... Dale accepted a point here regarding the 3rd point (Clarifying Izana's feat). I already calced the feat here (with Dale's suggestion) but messed up the pixel scaling. Can I remake the feat?

@Dalesean027 and @DMUA might be willing to make a decision regarding this issue. I am not sufficiently well-informed.

 

[Dinozxd]

@Dalesean027 and @DMUA might be willing to make a decision regarding this issue. I am not sufficiently well-informed.

DMUA rejected the calculation because of the context of the feat but that's cleared. I'm planning on remaking the pixel scale and the blog post. I'll link it here once that's done too. Can you tag some CGMs so that can be evaluated when I link it here?

 

[Antvasima]

Some of the Tokyo Revengers supporters have unfortunately repeatedly burned all bridges for this verse by being so extremely pushy, unreasonable, argumentative, time-consuming, and demanding that virtually all of our calc group members are extremely sick and tired of spending their free time volunteer work to help out with it anymore, rather than focus it on other more useful tasks, which is a feat that the supporters of other of our featured verses haven't managed to pull off.

Dalesean027 appears to have had the most endurance, but even he seems to be just a few steps away from ignoring all requests, and once all of our staff members have been convinced that this verse is cancer, we might as well delete it from our wiki, as no progress can ever be achieved with it, so nice work by the "fans" who achieved this, I suppose...

 

[RoggerReggor]

Because that's the indication of Senju using her aura for first time. She didn't use it when saving Takemichi.

Nope. As I mentioned, it's the authors choice to draw aura. He never drew the DI aura because he certainly wants the moments which need to be hyped up get hyped up (I am just assuming here tbh but this seems fine).

I gave some proofs here, here and here.

Okay, I will address them all (even though I have said that I don't see them as a reason against it). But I get that it's my fault too for not being much clearer with my arguments and this has wasted both of our times, apologies for that.

1. "Dude. I already gave you more than one where your only point is "Takeomi wasn't on the scene". You think she could show her potential without Takeomi knowing? That bro is literally the vice president of the gang." - No, it has nothing to do with Takeomi being the vice-president. If Senju dies, there's no one to take care of Takeomi. Refer to my priorities argument for more information. But in short, I want to say that if Senju dies, there's no one to assure that Takeomi is on the correct path, so she's not hitting two here.

2. "Takeomi would be corrupted by money if she showed true potential there. It's basically the same thing." - Addressed in the big essay I wrote already. But, what I want to say is that if she dies, there's no one to take care of Takeomi. Secondly, Takeomi is not on the scene, so it doesn't work like that again.

3. "Senju avoiding her potential is for everything that affects Takeomi directly or indirectly. You probably think It's only directly but then she wouldn't stop avoiding her potential aganist South cuz Brahman losing and getting disbanded would not affect Takeomi directly." - If she dies, there's no saving Takeomi anyways, so it counts as an indirect case too.

Again, I would make it clear that I repeated saying "waiting for the argument against Takeomi one" because I don't see the above as good reasonings against my argument.

Senju not being able to save Takemichi was mentioned to be an argument about the outlier.

Well, you should have answered that by just mentioning that it doesn't make sense to debunk something through something else, which works every time believe me lol.

Don't you think it would be better to debunk a verse if the characters of the verse actually gets outsped by a gun? Because that's definitely not the case here...

Again, no one has the right to debunk the verse by saying that.

Mikey never chased Kisaki on a bike which should be just superhuman to subsonic, he's still supersonic.
Ran and Rindou ran at normal human speeds while literally trying to save their lives.

These are just examples of how these things easily contradict the current status of the verse, but well, even Goku couldn't life 40 tonnes. Inconsistencies exist.

You said that Senju's case would not prove the outlier wrong single handedly as I remember. I agree with you, but it's still an argument and should be discussed.

It should be done afterwards due to many other things having a better priority here.

Also, I don't understand why are you guys treating Senju's True Potential as her on full power. It's literally in the name: "True". Base Senju can still use her full power without using her True Potential. True Potential is a much different thing than Base Senju at full power. You can think of it like South's Urges. South can still use his full power at base and can still be faster when he activates his Urges. Hope I explained it well.

True potential is sometime which can be reached, but not until the character trains themselves or something supernatural happens. South's urges is pretty much supernatural already.

 

[Dinozxd]

@Antvasima I'm really sorry if I came across as pushing and demanding. I didn't mean to do that. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima I'm really sorry if I came across as pushing and demanding. I didn't mean to do that. My apologies.

I was not referring to you specifically, but rather the TR supporters in our community who kept relentlessly pestering our calc group members until they got thoroughly fed up.

 

[Dinozxd]

@Antvasima Ah. I understand. We will try to be more careful next time.

@RoggerReggor I'll answer you sometime later. Feeling a bit tired atm.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Some of the Tokyo Revengers supporters have unfortunately repeatedly burned all bridges for this verse by being so extremely pushy, unreasonable, argumentative, time-consuming, and demanding that virtually all of our calc group members are extremely sick and tired of spending their free time volunteer work to help out with it anymore, rather than focus it on other more useful tasks, which is a feat that the supporters of other of our featured verses haven't managed to pull off.

Dalesean027 appears to have had the most endurance, but even he seems to be just a few steps away from ignoring all requests, and once all of our staff members have been convinced that this verse is cancer, we might as well delete it from our wiki, as no progress can ever be achieved with it, so nice work by the "fans" who achieved this, I suppose...

The verse is based on friendships and tackling problems. But the verse also has the concept of delinquency, criminals, abuse and all of it glorifies violence and also shows the characters who do it as "cool" as well. Plus, on Discord and even some verse supporters on the wiki as well were involved in street fights as well. I never found any good reason to expect anything good from the people who love the verse (but some can be good as well). Believe me, on Discord, the threats are much more normalized, slurs are common, and what not (because there's no active moderation there). I have been through a lot of stuff myself and kudos to Dalesean for handling it well.