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Justice for Tokyo Revengers.

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Anyway, it seems best to first try to impose some sensible discussion rules for Tokyo Revengers, and possibly lock the verse's most controversial profile pages in our wiki, so discussions regarding it can cool off for quite a while, and the more sensible and reasonable supporters might be able to get our staff members interested again.
 
The verse is based on friendships and tackling problems. But the verse also has the concept of delinquency, criminals, abuse and all of it glorifies violence and also shows the characters who do it as "cool" as well. Plus, on Discord and even some verse supporters on the wiki as well were involved in street fights as well. I never found any good reason to expect anything good from the people who love the verse (but some can be good as well). Believe me, on Discord, the threats are much more normalized, slurs are common, and what not (because there's no active moderation there). I have been through a lot of stuff myself and kudos to Dalesean for handling it well.
Yes, my very strong experiences are that artists do not remotely create without consequences, and that those who completely irresponsibly spread thoroughly destructive, morbid, nihilistic, amoral, dystopian, hopeless, horrific, degrading, defiling, or even outright evil, power-mad, psychopathic, and totalitarian values, cause extreme damage to the minds of an enormous number of very impressionable and potentially innocent people.
 
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@Dalesean027 and @DMUA might be willing to make a decision regarding this issue. I am not sufficiently well-informed.
regarding this specific calc i'm not even sure if we use a = F/m on the wiki due to some of our standards and how that could inflate results but even that aside let's say we did well even then it wouldn't even necessarily need to be as high as it is here. Using the total distance we know it would take 15.5029318 milliseconds before the first bullet hits Izana and the calculating interval between shots is 14.757 milliseconds which would definitely be fine but he still doesn't necessarily need to be reacting to the bullet post firing as he hasn't been shot yet as of the second panel we can surmise the 15.5 milliseconds hasn't passed yet and 14.757 milliseconds has passed as kisaki shot another shot but just saying as kisaki shot the first shot and Izana reacted by pushing kachuko then that would just be him reacting to the full distance the bullet traveled and not the 745.767199 microseconds left the bullet has before it hits. Doing the same movement he does to push Kakucho as the first bullet has been fired and hasn't hit yet and the second one then all that requires is 1.09798663467m/15.5029318 milliseconds = 70.8244511 m/s speeds (Subsonic) speeds as it doesn't contradict him getting Kakucho out of the way before the bullet reaches him and it allows for kisaki to have shot another shot in that timeframe before the first bullet hits izana as we see.
 
Okay. I am fine with letting you make a decision here if you wish.
 
Okay. I am fine with letting you make a decision here if you wish.
My stance still remains the same but regarding the calc with my corrects DMUA even said as much in the comments with this being said

Yeah it just seems like they're unloading the gun as fast as possible and Izana gets them out of the way before they get the chance to have the first one land. He does definitely outspeed the guy getting shot but just outright moving faster than a bullet isn't really that well supported by the context
which is kinda the stance I take so I think the 70m/s end is the best way to go
 
Okay. That seems fine then, but you should probably mention it in the relevant blog post.
 
regarding this specific calc i'm not even sure if we use a = F/m on the wiki due to some of our standards and how that could inflate results but even that aside let's say we did well even then it wouldn't even necessarily need to be as high as it is here.
do you think that I can just use 5 m/s for Kisaki's finger (Average Human speed) and the distance his finger has to move to pull the trigger to find the timeframe? It would make Izana outspeed Kisaki pulling the trigger instead of the bullet but I still think It would work.
 
The panel used is wrong, so is the pixelscaling.
This panel gives us the direct distance between the gun and Kakucho, so it's more accurate.
 
do you think that I can just use 5 m/s for Kisaki's finger (Average Human speed) and the distance his finger has to move to pull the trigger? It would make Izana outspeed Kisaki pulling the trigger instead of the bullet but I still think It would work.
I believe you can use the expert speed for this from here which would be around 0.139534884 second/round.
 
do you think that I can just use 5 m/s for Kisaki's finger (Average Human speed) and the distance his finger has to move to pull the trigger? It would make Izana outspeed Kisaki pulling the trigger instead of the bullet but I still think It would work.
Nah there's no reason to arbitrarily assume said speed of his trigger finger specifically as besides you just did a more complicated method that just proved he could perform this feat without being faster than a bullet itself. Even without the a=/fm you would still get 70m/s but if its accepted use a=f/m then my mistake the more accurate speed would be 74.4044613m/s as he does it in that timeframe which still is consistent with him doing it before the first bullet hits.

You kinda just proved why this literally isn't a supersonic+ feat by finding the interval between shots
 
I believe you can use the expert speed for this from here which would be around 0.139534884 second/round.
Second/round? Don't know how to convert that tbh.
Nah there's no reason to arbitrarily assume said speed of his trigger finger specifically as besides you just did a more complicated method that just proved he could perform this feat without being faster than a bullet itself. Even without the a=/fm you would still get 70m/s but if its accepted use a=f/m then my mistake the more accurate speed would be 74.4044613m/s as he does it in that timeframe which still is consistent with him doing it before the first bullet hits.

You kinda just proved why this literally isn't a supersonic+ feat by finding the interval between shots
But Izana still has to travel a big distance between his starting point and Kakucho. It would perfectly make sense for Izana to save Kakucho in the timeframe I suggested...

Also, using the panel Morris suggested to find the distance between Kakucho and Kisaki is better if the usage of a=fm is rejected.
 
But Izana still has to travel a big distance between his starting point and Kakucho. It would perfectly make sense for Izana to save Kakucho in the timeframe I suggested...
That part is literally whats been disagreed upon by several CGMs across several CRTs we literally don't know his distance across a couple of pages of motion off screen. So no that's unacceptable, thanks for proving DMUA's point with that calc.
 
It's like the time for one bullet. You can arguably use that to find the distance between two shots.
That's the problem the distance between the shots doesn't matter if the timeframe happens before the bullet can reach Izana if the timeframe between shots doesn't match up with that then something has been done wrong because no matter what izana can push kakucho before the shot hits at 70m/s. Finding the interval is to say he did it in the interval between shots which should be a smaller time than the shot hits but no small that it ignores to mechanical nature of the guns systems basically the version now is the best one

And that was a bad distance in my old calc which I myself would reject now
 
So, when I used the accelaration I got from Kisaki's finger and the time it would take for kisaki's finger to accelerate and inputted them to an accelaration calculator, I got 1.395882 m/s for Kisaki's finger's speed. 0.01029963m is the distance Kisaki's finger has to travel (the pixel scaling is flawed but I'll fix that once this settles). The timeframe would be: 0.01029963/1.395882 = 0.0073785821s. Wouldn't this be more accurate as the timeframe once I fix the pixel scaling as it uses distance/speed rather than acceleration to find the timeframe?
 
Yeah, if you include the entire running, it's Hypersonic+. Without that it's gonna be likely supersonic+

Edit: Here
Aren't you supposed to scale the horizontal distance/B with respect to Kakucho in that one? If not, Kakucho has his hand expanded which should reach that distance easily.

Secondly, even if you apply that, the distance would still be 0.484272903 m which is still easy for Kakucho to reach just through his hands. Angsizing gives horrible results sometimes lol.

I guess redoing it is the best.
 
Aren't you supposed to scale the horizontal distance/B with respect to Kakucho in that one? If not, Kakucho has his hand expanded which should reach that distance easily.

Secondly, even if you apply that, the distance would still be 0.484272903 m which is still easy for Kakucho to reach just through his hands. Angsizing gives horrible results sometimes lol.
I mean, this is the best I can get.
 
It seems like he's just saying that there should be a discussion rule against Tokyo Revengers being upgraded above Supersonic and that someone scaling to something was incredibly bad, so...

Frankly I don't even know why this is still ongoing, the verse has it's speed ratings in tact with accepted calcs and it seems much more wise to give the sea of Calc Group guys a break and just wait until new chapters with new stuff comes out

Maybe that should be the discussion rule, just straight up do not calculate feats released prior to whatever's the latest chapter unless they haven't been calculated before
 
It seems like he's just saying that there should be a discussion rule against Tokyo Revengers being upgraded above Supersonic and that someone scaling to something was incredibly bad, so...
The "Ah then this is fine sure, go for it" is the agreement.
 
As I have said before, I am willing to create any discussion rule for this verse and let it revised.

Simply ping me here and once I am free, I will be creating a draft.
 
@Dinozxd @MorrisHatesYou @Zefra3011 @RoggerReggor help me out here..

What is the interpretation of the Izana feat y’all are going with rn?

Are we going with arrangements of panels that indicate Izana performed an action (doesn’t have to be from starting position, could just be something like pushing Kakucho) after Kisaki fired the bullets? Or something else?

Need a summary on what’s going on here for Izana.
 
I don't think we decided on anything. I think we should discuss this as It's an important feat for the verse.

My stance on this is just the same as the OP. We should use the panel arrangements to discuss a feat like this and panel arrangements strongly suggest that Izana pushes Kakucho away after Kisaki fires the first bullet. I tried to calculate it in a detailed way but I don't agree with that simply because the distances are inconsistent and well... it's too detailed.
 
You know what… I think I’m just gonna calc this via what I think happened.

I’m seeing “a=F/m” I honestly don’t know who initially brought it up or why it was used for this. But i don’t have time to wrap my head around that so I’ll just use my method.
 
I’m seeing “a=F/m” I honestly don’t know who initially brought it up or why it was used for this. But i don’t have time to wrap my head around that so I’ll just use my method.
Just me being dumb lol just ignore that .

Just to add my opinion, i think calcing the distance between Kisaki's gun and Kakucho from angsizing this is better than using the wide shot imo.
 
@Dinozxd @MorrisHatesYou @Zefra3011 @RoggerReggor help me out here..

What is the interpretation of the Izana feat y’all are going with rn?
My personal opinion is that this feat isn't even going in one direction, it has got many possibilities. Like the arrangement of panels is not always suggesting that things are happening after each other but sometimes at the same time as well. If that's the case, then Dalesean's assumptions seem correct.

The second possibility is the possibility that has Izana running the entire distance which is literally very bad since we don't see Izana.

The third possibility is that the first bullet was fired and then Izana appeared in the frame to save Kakucho (upon the assumption that he is not running but just appears and we only take the distance he has to save Kakucho).
Are we going with arrangements of panels that indicate Izana performed an action (doesn’t have to be from starting position, could just be something like pushing Kakucho) after Kisaki fired the bullets? Or something else?
The best I can get to here is the distance just by saving Kakucho. But if the primary assumption is the bullet getting fired first, then the first possibility is in priority and is bound to happen.

But my personal opinion is to wait for the anime adaptation, which is not going to take too long since season 3 is being aired from the next week itself, and it will take only around 2-3 months for the scene to actually get adapted.

But it depends on what way they adapt it. If they show a full POV including both Kisaki and Izana, then they can give way to the second and the third possibilities, but only when they show Kisaki firing the first bullet and Izana then pushing Kakucho, or if everything goes well, they can even show Izana running as well. Plus, they can actually even give the idea of how much distance had Kakucho actually run as well (in this, I mean the distance traveled by projectile gets lesser, which is bound to happen lol).

But let's say they take both POVs differently, then even Dalesean's assumptions wouldn't fully make sense (even though Dalesean gave the best lowball possible for the feat) and this feat would be around the level of normal humans 💀.
 
My personal opinion is that this feat isn't even going in one direction, it has got many possibilities. Like the arrangement of panels is not always suggesting that things are happening after each other but sometimes at the same time as well. If that's the case, then Dalesean's assumptions seem correct.

The second possibility is the possibility that has Izana running the entire distance which is literally very bad since we don't see Izana.

The third possibility is that the first bullet was fired and then Izana appeared in the frame to save Kakucho (upon the assumption that he is not running but just appears and we only take the distance he has to save Kakucho).

I see,

The third possibility is what I’m siding with rn ngl because it makes the most sense. I think Izana appears and pushes Kakucho after the trigger was pulled. Did he start running after the trigger? Who knows? All I know is that he arrives and pushes Kakucho after the trigger was pulled.

I see where @Dalesean027 is coming from and I understand that there are cases where the panels aren’t chronological but those are only shown in cases where the expressions on the character’s faces need to be shown simultaneously. I honestly believe it is arbitrary to strongly decide if those Izana panels don’t signify chronological order. think about it. Why is it only in this situation we decide that two action panels aren’t a sequence of events? Can you think of any instance where multiple panels display a specific simultaneous moment in time outside of the pure expressions on a particular action? Is there really any other time in Tokyo Revengers where two action packed panels weren’t arranged in chronological order or are these panels the first and last ever time this happens? You see what I mean? If there are let me know… maybe there are.

If you do indeed find action panels (aside character expressions) that aren’t chronological order. Then I would see where you are coming from when you say there’s a possibility it is chronological and there’s a possibility it isn’t. Izana running the entire time is also possible but it’s the least possible out of the two other possible interpretations so let’s for-go that one. If you can’t find any action panels that aren’t chronological, then my interpretation holds the most weight out of the other two.
The best I can get to here is the distance just by saving Kakucho.
Me too. but after a shot was fire.
But my personal opinion is to wait for the anime adaptation, which is not going to take too long since season 3 is being aired from the next week itself, and it will take only around 2-3 months for the scene to actually get adapted.

But it depends on what way they adapt it. If they show a full POV including both Kisaki and Izana, then they can give way to the second and the third possibilities, but only when they show Kisaki firing the first bullet and Izana then pushing Kakucho, or if everything goes well, they can even show Izana running as well. Plus, they can actually even give the idea of how much distance had Kakucho actually run as well (in this, I mean the distance traveled by projectile gets lesser, which is bound to happen lol).

But let's say they take both POVs differently, then even Dalesean's assumptions wouldn't fully make sense (even though Dalesean gave the best lowball possible for the feat) and this feat would be around the level of normal humans 💀.
I don’t mind waiting for anime. Judging by the way they just adapted Mikey Taiju scene word for word bar for bar… I’m confident they’ll just let Kisaki make a shot, and switch to Izana saving Kakucho during the second shot and third shot happens when the camera switches to Takemichy. 😂

If this thing does go in my favor it wouldn’t be an outlier because I consider Izana one of the fastest in the verse. He is fast enough to bring up his guard to a full power all out Signature kick from Mikey at a time in the series where nobody can react to it.
 
As RoggerReggor said. No matter how much we argue, the outcome may change when that anime scene is released. We just have to be patient and wait for the anime. The topic of waiting for anime was discussed several months ago, but many people still don't have enough patience. Doing nothing and waiting for the exam results is easier than arguing when you don't know the clear answer.
 
Alright then it’s settled.

We will be waiting for anime for finally decide what we do about this Izana issue.
 
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