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I'm doing this again: Fire Dragon vs Dragon of Wrath

The thing I just realized and that got me a little confused is...

If Mel is sealing Natsu's fire by FC, forcing him to pure CQC, why is it assumed he still keeps the same AP? His Dragon Slayer magic is a big part of his power, unless you tell me the flames are just hot and most of that is his pure muscle strength. Especially since part of the justification is that Crimson Lotus: Phoenix Blade could seriously hurt Mard Geer.

Honestly confused about this, I probably just misunderstood something.
 
Natsu Flame Enhanced punches, kicks and such probably wouldn't be full countered, and if for some reason that did happen, Natsu would probably still be able to overwhelm Mel faster than he could full counter, plus eventually Meliodas would need to go on the offensive with physical attacks realizing Full Countering isn't doing damage
 
But the AP'll still decrease. Crimson Lotus is far stronger than Natsu's melee fire.
 
BUT Natsu's basic Punches still kicked the crap out of mard geer, who should have durability that could take Sema with Little damage, and if we're saying that, Mels punches shouldn't be equal to Gils Storm
 
I'm not sure what Mel's punches should have to do with anything. Natsu's fire and Dragon Slayer magic is pretty important to his fighting style, for obvious reasons, and his AP is partly justified by the Crimson Lotus hurting Mard Geer greatly.

The obvious conclusion that came to mind is that when the difference between AP is this close, it should become more equal. Obviously not sure by what degree, but eh.
 
Well this is a Natsu who has been fighting for two days straight, so saying he was low on stamina towards the end there would be an understatement, he could hold for a lot longer at full health, just like against Zero and Jellal
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
Delta3000 said:
@dragon emperour23.
Well when he fought Mard he ran out of magic about 5 seconds after activating his dragon force. additionally none of his powered up forms seem to last very long any way.
Click to expand...
Ignoring the fact he has been fighting for whole day and at one point having some of his magic drained. The fact he can still pack a punch after all the ***** he has been through is impressive enough to me.
Click to expand...
^ Just reposting this for the stamina debunk @glass
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Actually, LFDM specifically drains him but even that barely drains him after 2nd Origin. Natsu basically fought a bunch of fodder, fought Franmalth, fought Tempester, fought Etherious Tempester, fought Mard, fought Etherious Mard, this basically happened all day.
Click to expand...
^
 
Considering how the first hit that sent Mard Geer flying and Crimson Lotus, OBVIOUSLY, were imbued in the flames, I am tempted to say the difference in AP should close by getting the flames out of the way.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
1: That's the thing, they won't be his flames anymore, they'll be a attack that's doubled in AP and sent back at him. I'm also curious to see when that's ever happened, I don't recall Natsu ever tanking a attack that was thrown back at him with double the force or he'd be High 7-A.


2: My bad.


3: Better experience in overall combat, he's been fighting for much longer than Natsu has and that's obvious due to his age.
Click to expand...
"This won't be his flame anymore" 😂😂obviouslyhen natsu stomp him badly since each fc will onl make natsu stronger
 
As RIN said after FC those flame arent Natsu flame anymore so FC is still. Useless. Also, anyone who is saying Mel experience is better, He just spends 60 years to find out his own father ability nature
 
Incorrect. The dude that multiplied Natsu's attacks was pretty blatant he transformed them when absorbing and shooting back, and even then Natsu didn't eat them.

Meliodas doesn't do this. Is the same attack, multiplied by 2 at the very least and sent back.
 
He should have the ability to, since his fire reflected from those guys didn't hurt him. Then again, like Guila did to Mel, it's entirely possible and likely he wasn't really trying with that attack.

I am still not really sold Hellblaze does nothing as well, so if he pulls a Zancrow, eats them and shoots them back, Mel can also FC that.
 
1997KD said:
As RIN said after FC those flame arent Natsu flame anymore so FC is still. Useless.
Also, anyone who is saying Mel experience is better, He just spends 60 years to find out his own father ability nature
Click to expand...
That's a bad counter argument. The Demon King shrugs off whatever they do and smacks them aside. Even when Ban uses what he learned from the fights and heals Wild, he doesn't look drained like with the Demon King despite the fact he's still sending someone his power. There's not a whole lot of information to gleam from this.
 
RavenSupreme said:
Can Natsu eat something which is twice as powerful as he gets scaled to?
Click to expand...
Why not? And it makes him stronger, again as atlas flame example i think the dragon was stronger than natsu that's why Natsu try to eat him instead of killing him, Natsu get powerup whenever he eats strong flame, since eating weak flame not going to give him powerup
 
Just a reacap

  • natsu can eat hellfire
  • can eat F.C. flames which make him stronger
  • have ap advantage
 
From what I understand Natsu being able to eat Hellblaze is contested. Also him eating something which is x2 in AP then what he gets regularly scaled to is also iffy going by our standards

And someone may correct me, but doesn't his slight AP advantage stems from a full power move? Meaning not his casual bread and butter abilities get said scaling, whereas Meliodas scaling is from a casual perspective
 
I wanted to ask Raven, how do you feel about FC making it useless for Natsu to use his flames, therefore affecting his AP?

Or about FC being able to affect punch and kicks enhanced by Dragon Slayer magic, due to how Meliodas did FC Guila's explosion before when she was using it from the tip of her sword.
 
It's a possibility, yes. Every move which is imbued with magic in any shape way or form is susceptible to full counter.
 
@Raven Natsu has been consistently ate things above his AP. Tenrou Arc: He ate Laxus lightning who is Low 7-B at the time. GMG arc: He ate Atlas Flame's fire who is 7-A character. Alvarez Arc: He ate some portion of Dark Form August magic who is High 6-C. Natsu was in his base form all the time when he did that.

Him eating something merely twice as powerful as he is doesn't sound that absurd at all.

Also, no, Natsu 7-A rating doesn't come from one attack. In fact, his 7-A rating in this form came from the fact he had only a portion of his power due his magic had already been drained beforehand.

Also again, Natsu's punches is equal to his ap with flame.
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
@Raven Natsu has been consistently ate things above his AP. Tenrou Arc: He ate Laxus lightning who is Low 7-B at the time. GMG arc: He ate Atlas Flame's fire who is 7-A character. Alvarez Arc: He ate some portion of Dark Form August magic who is High 6-C. Natsu was in his base form all the time when he did that.

Him eating something merely twice as powerful as he is doesn't sound that absurd at all.

Also, no, Natsu 7-A rating doesn't come from one attack. In fact, his 7-A rating in this form came from the fact he had only a portion of his power due his magic had already been drained beforehand.

Also again, Natsu's punches is equal to his ap with flame.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification. Informative
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
The example about the dude that threw Natsu's flames back at him also doesn't have a lot of relevance, I never said Mel could hurt him with his own flams. August fire attack is way above what Natsu could do at the moment he received it, but it still didn't do much for how much power it packed. I only argued even if he could suck the hellblaze and use it in an attack like God Flames, then he's sending an attack that Meliodas CAN FC, and that WILL hurt even if it's flames.

As for Revenge Counter, even back while he was sealed the highest stat Meliodas had was Will. Unless he manages to knock him out the hardway or kill him, I don't doubt he will be able to use it,

Finally as for experience, I feel a damn big downplay. Zeldris was sealed for 3000 years and even he knew about many of the special fighting skills from past heroes in the sword Excalibur, like the art of a blind swordman that could repel all surprise attacks. Natsu is skilled, but his focus in battles is rarely a lack of skill, but a lack of pure power or speed.
Click to expand...
So we are saying that august flame is above natsu? Becasue instead of eating it he try to protect lucy and happy since it was a large AOE attack.

Meliodas have any feat for using his 3000 year experience in battle?
 
Calaca Vs said:
The difference is that Natsu can't reflect attacks unlike Mel. FC gives Mel the advantage of reflect and deflect Natsu's attacks to take even less damage than he could give to Natsu.
Click to expand...
Then natsu can eat those flame, also natsu already show to use his flame like this

Screenshot 20181004-191704
 
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