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I'm doing this again: Fire Dragon vs Dragon of Wrath

Was actually gonna mention the wall quoting, ninja'd by Calada.

Regardless, this feels too much like a back and forth. My reasons were laid down and I vote for Meliodas, I'll wait to see any other opinions or points brought up.

Oh yeah, besides the fact I wanna point out that NO, you can already see Meliodas swung the dragon hilt thing in the last panel, that's the glare of her redirected attack. She had already used her explosions before tapping the tip of her rapier to something, then BOOM. Not to mention the tip is smoldering at the last page of that chapter, as if heat is bending light, but there's no observable energy.
 
I'll count the votes. I've seen enough to say that there are reasons debunked but not all of it and the main reasons are still viable.

The debunked and rebunked reasons are:

  • Atlas's flames aren't hellfire so Natsu should have problems eating Mel's Hellfire. And I don't even think Sealed and Unarmed Mel can use it so it's a moot point.
  • Mel can Full Counter close ranged attacks (Guila) so he can reflect Natsu's.
  • To avoid more stuff about it we should say that Natsu's tactics skills and Mel's experience counter each other. It's safe to say that Natsu would get a slight edge tho.
  • Natsu wouldn't be harmed by his own flames but he'll lost energy if he doesn't recharge it.
If there are somethings I forgetting please tell me. It's a big thread.

Natsu: 3 (DemonGodMitchAubin, 1997KD, DragonEmperor23)

Meliodas: 4 (LSirLancelotDuLacl, Gargoyle One, Veloxt1r0kore, Enryu).

I don't think HST Master and Captain Torch voted.

After the downgrade/upgrade I thought this match was impossible but it's still good.

BTW should I give Liz's Sword or Lostvayne to Mel?
 
Natsu would have no trouble eating Hellblaze, there has never been a point where Hellblaze has been stated as unable to be absorbed, so Natsu could totally eat it
 
Atlas's flames aren't hellfire so Natsu should have problems eating Mel's Hellfire. And I don't even think Sealed and Unarmed Mel can use it so it's a moot point.

No one ever brought up them being hellfire. He called them Purgatory flames. You were the one who connected it to NNT's similarly named ability.

Mel can Full Counter close ranged attacks (Guila) so he can reflect Natsu's.

Close ranged =/= Melee. You clearly see in the picture that the attack comes out of the tip of her sword, aka a projectile.
 
@Demon Natsu would have to empty out his entire magical source for him to eat hellblaze in the first place. And doing that will make him drained when he does use it. Follow that up with a full counter to redirect the attack away from Mel and you already have a drained Natsu compared to Mel who isn't that drained. Mel would likely take this for the reasons stated above.
 
@DemonGodMitchAubin

Hellfire isn't regular fire. Actually is far better than regular or magic fire inside NNT. As said before the Red Demon hellfire can burn King's forest and Mel is far higher than a Red Demon in hierarchy and power. So no. It's a NLF say that Natsu can eat it with no problems just because it's fire.

@DragonEmperor23

If I'm correct you were using this as an argument in favour of Natsu eating Hellfire.

I don't think an attack coming from a sword is a projectile and at that distance.
 
Natsu: 3 (DemonGodMitchAubin, 1997KD, DragonEmperor23)

Meliodas: 5 (LSirLancelotDuLacl, Gargoyle One, Veloxt1r0kore, EnryuTheRedTower, Theglassman12).
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Demon Natsu would have to empty out his entire magical source for him to eat hellblaze in the first place.
Click to expand...
He had to do that to eat God Flames. God flames =/= Hellfire. Hellfire has no resistance to absorption. Natsu can eat it just like any other flame.
 
@Dragon that doesn't matter since both flames aren't normal flames to begin with. Natsu cannot eat flames that aren't normal or standard magical flames as proven with zancrow. Hellfire is just another unique fire that Natsu has no showing of eating easily.
 
Natsu has consumed things like Lightning and Etherion, two things which should be difficult to consume for him, but he absorbed them with no problems, in fact he ate Jackal's Explosion Curses, which are cursed and have dark properties, There is nothing about Hellfire that says it wouldn't be absorbed by Natsu, because he has absorbed many different powerful things he should'nt be able to be eaten, that's not a NFL, it's just saying there's no reason he can't absorb Hellblaze, In Fact, in a filler arc written by Hiro Mashima, Natsu ates Flames of Pure Blackness that consume other fire, so there is nothing that says Natsu can't eat Hellblaze, because he has eaten Magical, Cursed, and poisoned Fire
 
@DragonEmperor23

If I'm correct you were using this as an argument in favour of Natsu eating Hellfire.

I don't think an attack coming from a sword is a projectile and at that distance.

Rapier
The first circle on the right shows that their is no aura around the rapier to signify that it has magic channeled into it. Then the second circle shows that the area in front of the rapier explodes and not the rapier itself. This just means that Mel had the reaction time to Reflect the explosion which we already know he can do due to the speed feats he's shown previously. This means that he wouldn't be able to Reflect the fire off of Natsu.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dragon that doesn't matter since both flames aren't normal flames to begin with. Natsu cannot eat flames that aren't normal or standard magical flames as proven with zancrow. Hellfire is just another unique fire that Natsu has no showing of eating easily.
Click to expand...
That's not it works. Just because Zancrow's flames are resistant to absorption does not mean Meliodas's are. It's unique ability is regen negation which will do nothing to stop Natsu from devouring it.
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
Unless said Hellfire is like gazilion stronger than Natsu, I fails to see why Natsu cannot eat it.
Click to expand...
A reasonably far weaker fire can burn a forest that cannot be burned by regular fire (and maybe magic fire). It's a far different fire and if we taking that into account then Mel's Hellfire can bypass Natsu's resistance to fire.

Still needing to know if this Mel can use Hellfire. The one from the flashback wasn't sealed and got his Lostvayne IIRC.
 
@Dragon Zancrows flames were never resistant to absorption at all. They were just difficult to eat because of their properties. Hellfire is essentially the same thing.
 
Calaca Vs said:
A reasonably far weaker fire can burn a forest that cannot be burned by regular fire (and maybe magic fire). It's a far different fire and if we taking that into account then Mel's Hellfire can bypass Natsu's resistance to fire.

Still needing to know if this Mel can use Hellfire. The one from the flashback wasn't sealed and got his Lostvayne IIRC.
Click to expand...
AP doesn't stop absorption though. Natsu could eat the flames of Atlas, who was way stronger than him. There's nothing to suggest Hellfire can bypass Natsu's resistance, that's not what hellfire does. All Hellfire does it negate Regenerationn. It doesn't negate durability or resist absorption or negate resistance to fire.
 
Because of the simple fact that it is indeed much stronger than any normal fire in NNT, AGAIN, burning the Fairy Kingdom Forest which a normal fire wouldn't even raise a kindle.

I feel people literally skip the part where I point out is odd to say Natsu eats the fire because it's fire, when the only instance of him not being able to eat fire normally is Zancrow's black flames, the only time he tries to eat fire that isn't normal fire.. Every other instance of him eating something different was from another Dragon Slayer, to boot.

Hellblaze is pretty much Amaterasu without eye tattoos and by default being as malleable as Sasuke's blaze release, which sounds even worse than Zancrow's flame. He was overpowering Natsu too, not destroying him without any effort. The difference in their fires didn't seem big at all.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dragon Zancrows flames were never resistant to absorption at all. They were just difficult to eat because of their properties. Hellfire is essentially the same thing.
Click to expand...
Natsu can absorb fire. Natsu struggled absorbing Zancrow's flames. This means that their properties include being resistant to absorption. They are not the same thing because Hellfire is not resistant to absorption.
 
Just because Hellaze and God Flames are the same color, does not mean Natsu can't eat Hellblaze, he has eaten Demonic Flames Before, such as Atlas Flames Fire, and Jackal's Curse Explosions
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Because of the simple fact that it is indeed much stronger than any normal fire in NNT, AGAIN, burning the Fairy Kingdom Forest which a normal fire wouldn't even raise a kindle.
Hellblaze is pretty much Amaterasu without eye tattoos and by default being as malleable as Sasuke's blaze release, which sounds even worse than Zancrow's flame.
Click to expand...
It's not like Amaterasu at all. Are you implying that Natsu can't eat the normal element? This is proven wrong by Gajeel and Sting eating the other element in their fused forms. Hellblaze doesn't negate durability. It's literally just normal fire that stops you from healing. Being stronger than normal fire just means that the person who burnt down the forest had a higher AP than the forest's durability.
 
@Calaca Vs

Didn't Mel use his divine slasher, a technique pulling out his Hellblaze, to kill the demon guarding Margaret while not using his demon mark? And this was before 10 commandments, so obviously sealed.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Natsu has consumed things like Lightning and Etherion, two things which should be difficult to consume for him, but he absorbed them with no problems
Click to expand...
Etherion put him down and it was hard for him to do it. As for Laxus's lightning I don't remember the fight so I can't properly gives you the reason.

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
in fact he ate Jackal's Explosion Curses, which are cursed and have dark properties
Click to expand...
Does this Natsu ate the Jackal's explosions? I think that comes forward in the story.

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
In Fact, in a filler arc written by Hiro Mashima, Natsu ates Flames of Pure Blackness that consume other fire, so there is nothing that says Natsu can't eat Hellblaze, because he has eaten Magical, Cursed, and poisoned Fire
Click to expand...
Do this wiki count that filler as 'canon' for the mechanics?

If Natsu shouldn't eat it it's for something. Zancrow's flames were superior to him but I don't remember Natsu can't ate it cause a resistance. It's more like they was unmatchable for his own powers and 'magic physiology' to do so. In this case Mel's Hellfire should do the same. Natsu'd need to empty his magical reserves in order to absorb it. And that'll only nulls the flames cause he can't charge himself nor obtain the special traits of the fire.
 
It's not like Amaterasu at all. Are you implying that Natsu can't eat the normal element? This is proven wrong by Gajeel and Sting eating the other element in their fused forms. Hellblaze doesn't negate durability. It's literally just normal fire that stops you from healing. Being stronger than normal fire just means that the person who burnt down the forest had a higher AP than the forest's durability.
Click to expand...
No, I'm implying, as Calaca has, that Hellblaze is much more powerful and different from normal fire. The deed in question wasn't even Meliodas, but a low level Red Demon.

And no, it's very powerful fire that could burn things normal fire couldn't, denying the healing of an immortal and being unable to be extinguished by normal means. Are you sure you've even read about it beforehand?
 
1. Natsu was still able to fight using Lightning and Etherion, he was only sick and drained after he won the fight a few days later

2. This Natsu has eaten Jackal's Flames Before Hand

3. Natsu couldn't initially eat Zancrow's Flames because his are basically an Ace to his King, they are a higher rank of Magic, however he still managed a trick to eat them

Every single time Natsu has had trouble with absorbing a flame, he has found a way to consume and absorb the power eventually, so Hellblaze is still game
 
@DemonGodMitchAubi

Nobody has ever said having the same color has anything to do with it. Zancrow's God Flame is not normal fire, is more powerful than fire, and is the only fire Natsu has been unable to eat normally. Not only is Hellblaze not normal fire at all, it is vastly more powerful, inextinguishable, and can easily burn things normal fire can't burn.

This isn't rocket science, both fires aren't normal fire. Hellblaze is even worse than Zancrow's fire seeing everything each one can do, to boot.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
AP doesn't stop absorption though. Natsu could eat the flames of Atlas, who was way stronger than him. There's nothing to suggest Hellfire can bypass Natsu's resistance, that's not what hellfire does. All Hellfire does it negate Regenerationn. It doesn't negate durability or resist absorption or negate resistance to fire.
Click to expand...
It's not about AP. I think it's more like a Resistance Negation. Fairy Kingdom Forest was resistant to regular fire and still a Red Demon Fire can burn it. So said fire should bypass that resistance and so Mel's because he's >>>> a Red Demon.

But I'll stop here. This is getting too messy to read and post so I'll remain in the shadows counting votes.

I still don't see the reasons why the main arguments for both sides should be discounted.
 
Natsu still managed to eat Zancrow's Fire, so hellblaze is no different, has there ever been a point were hellblaze was stated unable to be absorbed
 
Great... so he absorbs Hellblaze and sends it back to Meliodas like he did Zancrow's flames. Except he's still not resistant to those flames, and now Meliodas has a big, fat attack to Full Counter back into Natus's face that can actually hurt him.

Unless you want to say Hellblazes can't hurt him, in which case I might as well drop the point altogether because this would be absurd.
 
>Can easily burn things most normal fire can't burn

This really doesn't mean anything when being able to burn things is based on AP.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
No, I'm implying, as Calaca has, that Hellblaze is much more powerful and different from normal fire. The deed in question wasn't even Meliodas, but a low level Red Demon.

And no, it's very powerful fire that could burn things normal fire couldn't, denying the healing of an immortal and being unable to be extinguished by normal means. Are you sure you've even read about it beforehand?
Click to expand...
>When the red demon that burned down the Fairy Forest used normal fire and not hellfire

boye
 
If being able to burn things was based in AP, you just need a stronger normal fire and the forest is gone. It's a low level Red demon, so achieving that should be damn easy... except it's not as far as we've seen.
 
At the point that he eats Hellfire he would then have resistance to it, just like with Monspeet
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
If being able to burn things was based in AP, you just need a stronger normal fire and the forest is gone. It's a low level Red demon, so achieving that should be damn easy... except it's not as far as we've seen.
Click to expand...
That's what happened though.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Natsu still managed to eat Zancrow's Fire, so hellblaze is no different, has there ever been a point were hellblaze was stated unable to be absorbed
Click to expand...
No, their argument is that since Natsu had trouble eating Zancrow's fire, he will have trouble eating Hellfire. Which doesn't even make sense because that's a False Equivalency.
 
... You just used the anime?

So let me make this clear. Dragon, you decided to use the anime as your PROOF like when you tried to claim revenge counter could be eaten by Seven Flame Natsu because it was... White. Even though the main canon is the source material where the flames are BLACK HELL FLAMES.

And Demon, you are telling me Natsu would absorb Hellblaze and become immune like Monspeet, one of the greatest Hellblaze users of the entire Demon World, when he didn't even become resistant, OR HEAL AND RECOVER HIS ENERGY, when he did the same with Zancrow's flames.

'Sigh'

Sorry, am out. I laid out my points and reinstate them if necessary, but this argument will go nowhere, that is indisputable.
 
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