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I'm doing this again: Fire Dragon vs Dragon of Wrath

Meliodas isn't more skilled than Natsu. Meliodas's 3000 years mean nothing because he literally stomped all of his opponents. The only people who were as strong as him were the archangels and Natsu's fought way more than 5 people that are around his strength.
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
Natsu feat ain't casual, even with his best effort he barely did a thing to Etherious Mard who should be considerably stronger than his base form who should be comparable to 550 Megatons.
Click to expand...
Mel's feat was casual.
 
And? At best they would be comparable. Natsu is comparable to Mard who is stronger than base and his base is stronger than 550 megatons.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
They both realize they're Demons, who have busty girlfriends, are part of a group of rebelsl and have issues with their Black Haired Brothers who are currently dealing with the death of their Lover, due to their similarities, they sit down and have a beer together and drink the night away
Click to expand...
That is scarily accurate!
 
What nonsense are you spouting? Natsu never ate Zancrow's flames the normal way, he literally had to purge the entirety of his magical energy to even attempt this and doing it didn't change the God Slayer Flame's properties - namely the fact that the attack could hurt Natsu. Natsu doesn't resist his flames because they are his, he does because he has natural resistance to fire - but Zancrow's flames completely disregard that. So all Natsu is doing absorbing the Hellblaze, which is nothing at all like normal flames, is sending them back at Mel into an attack Mel can Full Counter back into his face, even more powerful and actually hurting him with those... if he can actually absorb it.

And no, the flame of rebuke is just flames like any other as far as we know, except that Jellal did something to them so they super charged him. All other instances of him eating ANY magic, or any dragon slayer eating and assimilating ANY magic, has been eating other dragon slayer's magic. Ethereon was the exception and see how he ended up. Each and every other time he can munch the magic but Zancrow's is a different case, the only flame that's actually not normal flames. Which Hellblaze isn't unless I am blind and read it's description entirely wrong.

Also, the claim of Natsu's senses is completely pointless. You do forget this is the same Meliodas that completely suppressed at the start of the series sensed Gilthunder's spear from Kilometers away, sent it in the exact same direction almost instantly and with so much precision Gilthunder would have got head shoted if he didn't move his head? He wasn't even in the same place he had thrown the spear from, yet he got it perfectly right, first try, launching it right away from kilometers away. In no way is Meliodas the lesser of the two in senses, or precision, and nothing I've seen marks him the lesser of the two in martial skill. Far from it.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
I don't get why people even bring up the god flames as a point that Natsu can't eat them. Natsu literally ate the flames and then oneshotted the opponent who was stomping him. After he realizes he can't eat it the normal way, he just uses the trick again.
Click to expand...
^
 
Calaca Vs said:
In the previous thread it was debunked the part where Natsu can eat his reflected flames. In the manga he tanked it instead of eating it like in the anime.

Vote counted.
Click to expand...
He is still immune to his on flame(again silver vs gray fight reference)
 
The only reason Natsu couldn't normally eat Zancrow's Fire is because it is God Slayer magic, which is on a higher hierchy than Dragon Slayer Magic, any other fire is game, which is why Natsu could eat Hellblaze, there is nothing about Hellblaze that says it can't be absorbed, people just assume that is the case cause it is the fires of purgatory, and Natsu ate purgatory flames from atlas flame anyways, so Hellblaze is fair game, and full counter would do nothing to Natsu, since he is immune to his own fire, so Meliodas only has physical abilities, which Natsu has better of
 
Calm down bro, go and read ft x not, we all love meliodas and not

1)Also, zancrow is god slayer with divine flame, and higher lvl of magic then dragon slayer magic, meliodas hellfire is not a higher lvl then DSM it's a hellfire and Natsu already eat it, Natsu get affected by eating lighting and ethereon is true, but it always happens after the battle it gives him enough strength to stand in the battle for a long time.

We are talking out physical sense not magical sense and that spear throw is also slow AF, throwing back spear feat is not a big or usable in battle. Meanwhile, Natsu is able to use his dragon sense to predict sting and rogue attack, and the Natsu is mention is dragon force Natsu, the one who can use the flame of rebuke. Mel cant FC attack if he wasn't able to read its Natsu or if his timing it wrong, Natsu isn't a brain-dead that he will keep using flame even if someone FC it, he knows how to use fight via using flame indirectly(Natsu vs yuka fight reference)
 
That's not how it works. You don't give abilities extra powers because they have similar names. Natsu couldn't eat Zancrow flames normally, that's true but that just gives his god flames absorption resistance. Meanwhile, just because Mel's flames are called hellfire and also black, doesn't mean they have the same resistance to absorption. The only power the hellfire has been shown to have is temporary Regenerationn negation. It doesn't have any resistance to absorption so Natsu would eat it just as easily as any other flame and then he would be able to neg Meliodas's Regen.
 
1997KD said:
He is still immune to his on flame(again silver vs gray fight reference)
Click to expand...
Silver is a Devil Slayer tho. But that's not the point. I stated that Mel using FC'll do nothing to Natsu. The only thing it'll do is decrease Natsu's stamina cause he can't eat his own flames.
 
Right so it goes down to hand to hand combat with Natsu with the AP advantage. The reason I'm saying Natsu has an AP advantage is because Meliodas will definitely try the hellfire atleast once and that will boost Natsu a bunch and let him neg Meliodas. There's also the fact that in Dragon Force, Natsu's emotions are more heightened and he'll get stronger the angry he gets. Natsu also has the skill advantage for multiple reasons said above.
 
Doesn't Unsealed Mel have his Demon Mark? If so then he has a Higher with his tier so he would probably close to the next to the next tier if I was to say of be like 7-A+
 
Demon Mark Mel is High 7-A which is an AP Stomp and was restricted from this match, so no to that
 
Natsu is far above 558 Megatons while Mel is Far above 447 Megatons, Small difference, but Natsu has AP Advantage and Rage Boost
 
Except for the fact that at no point has Natsu eaten any weird flames that aren't normal flames. Flame of Rebuke is the only exception and was specifically given to him by Jellal as a boost.

You fail again and again to grasp this point when it's brought up as far as I've seen in other discussions, as much as you fail the grasp that any time Natsu has eaten an element it has been from a dragon slayer. Am I wrong? Could someone tell me if I am? The only exception I can think of is the afformentioned Flame of Rebuke and Etherion. And AGAIN, you saw very well what that did to is body. As for Zancrow, the only thing you have to go on about superior flames is the fact Natsu can eat them, they hurt him, and when he does indeed eat them through some little unorthodox method, he doesn't get re-energized or cured. Hellblaze from a lowly red demon burned the fairy forest when normal flames couldn't even try, don't extinguish like normal flames and can even negate Regenerationn from an immortal. I don't compute how you can't call this superior to normal flames. Rather, they are nastier than Zancrow's black flames but the only reasoning is that Zancrow's magic is above so **** Natsu, but any other flame? Oh no no, unlikely it'd be the same thing. You also miss the fact that if he needs to use the same method he used for Zancrow, he's not immune to those flames even if he absorbs and sends them back - which means Full Countered attack right back at Natsu.

Not to mention magic is magic, be it ranged or on his body, he can just undo them with Counter Vanish or Full Counter. Any successful hit he actually gets on Meliodas means just more fuel for Revenge Counter. And I am still doubtful Natsu is his melee superior when Meliodas has so many long years of experience, not accounting for the fact that he was legitimately trained by the Demon World's best.
 
It's fire. There's nothing weird about a fire dragon slayer being able to eat fire. He has been able to eat all fire shown.

Look at all the times Natsu's eaten fire. They specifically said Etherion had other types of magic mixed in it and that's why it hurt him. That's just better durability for the forest than the fire's AP, people with multicity block dura can withstand the sun's heat. Actually he is immune to his flames, when they get full countered they will do absolutely no damage to him.

Scans of Meliodas vanishing the magic off of someone's body?

Except it's not expierence. If a 6-B stomps an army of 8-B's for 3000 years, that's not expierence that's just him stomping people who are fodder to him lol. Maybe if Meliodas was fighting an army of people comparable to him, then yeah but that's nothing close to what happened. Being trained means nothing when you don't have any feats of your skill level.
 
You mean that normal fire? Which didn't happen when he ran into Zancrow's fire? Not to mention he could only use it for an attack, one at that, unlike any other fire he consumes? Doesn't sound convincing.

No, he's immune to his own flames as you say. Hellblaze is not his flames, and they are not normal flames. Again, he didn't get rejuvenated by Zancrow's flames, so it's unlikely he became immune to them just because he used a different method to consume them.

That's a personal assumption, but almost all times magic is used as a projectile and not something coated in the body. If anyone else will think that relevant or possible, that's up to them.

I really doubt you can claim being trained by one of the two strongest demons not called Demon King is worthless as a statement. Regardless, experience doesn't stop mattering because most people aren't on your level. That's still 3000 years of observing a massive number of individuals all with their different battle styles and magics, while unaccounting for any battle against the Archangels or the fact he's not gonna one shot every shmuck he comes across in his life. Holding back is a thing.
 
As long as it's not above his own Fire Heirarchy Wise he can eat it if it's Fire. The heriarchy is this

God Slayer > Dragon Slayer > Magic Flames > Normal Flames

All times Natsu had trouble with Flames it's because either

A. It was higher than his in the hierarchy(Zancrow)

B. Mixed with other things that aren't fire (Etherion)

Every other type of Flame he's encountered has been eatable to him. Atlas's Purgatory Flames, Jellal's flame of Rebuke, Totomaru's Rainbow Flames. All eatable despite also counting as non-normal flames. Putting Fire God Slayer Magic and Hellblaze together because Hellblaze is "not normal" even though Natsu has devoured magic flames is a false equivalency.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
You mean that normal fire? Which didn't happen when he ran into Zancrow's fire? Not to mention he could only use it for an attack, one at that, unlike any other fire he consumes? Doesn't sound convincing.
No, he's immune to his own flames as you say. Hellblaze is not his flames, and they are not normal flames. Again, he didn't get rejuvenated by Zancrow's flames, so it's unlikely he became immune to them just because he used a different method to consume them.

That's a personal assumption, but almost all times magic is used as a projectile and not something coated in the body. If anyone else will think that relevant or possible, that's up to them.

I really doubt you can claim being trained by one of the two strongest demons not called Demon King is worthless as a statement. Regardless, experience doesn't stop mattering because most people aren't on your level. That's still 3000 years of observing a massive number of individuals all with their different battle styles and magics, while unaccounting for any battle against the Archangels or the fact he's not gonna one shot every shmuck he comes across in his life. Holding back is a thing.
Click to expand...
Except Zancrow's fire has resistance to absorption. See again how just because they look similar does not mean that Hellfire automatically gets resistance to absorption.

Yes, immune to his own flames which would include Hellfire after he eats them. Again, him not being rejuvenated from Zancrow's flames is a showing of how God Flames work, it does not give special resistances to Mel's flames.

How is it a personal assumption? I asked you to show evidence of Meliodas being able to do the thing you said he could do. Projectiles being reflected is true, but I've never seen him reflect the magic that someone is using to enhance themselves off their body.

Observing? What Observing? He punches them and the battle is over. There's no skill gained from oneshotted them. Why would he hold back? He's in a war. Again, fighting 5 other people that are as strong as you is nothing compared to how many people Natsu has fought that were on his level.
 
Mel's flame is hell fire. This was discussed on the last FT VS NNT thread and the flames from Atlas we're not Hell Fire Flames because that was a miss translation and the official translation didn't even say that.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Hst master said:
Atlas's Purgatory Flames
Click to expand...
Wasn't Atlas's... Flames debunked as hellfire in the previous thread?
Click to expand...
He's talking about them as being flames from a dragon and not hellfire from NNT. This was to address the comment about Natsu's ability to absorb types of flames.
 
I don't think Atlas's fire is any different from another dragon's fire. It's like Dragon Slayer's fire IMO.

The hierarchy should go like this:

God Slayer > God (but there's no God in FT) > Devil Slayer > Demon (Cause Zeref's demons uses curses instead of magic which IIRC it's superior) > Dragon Slayer > Dragons > Mages > Normal stuff.

That's in my opinion the power hierarchy.
 
There are multiple gods in FT, see the God of Time that Dimaria captured/beat(?) and the Death God Anksheram that cursed Zeref.

Plus the god dragons but idk how they factor into the situation.
 
His profile says he has resistance to x and y, then a comma and THEN absorption (of natural and magical flames). Nothing at all about resisting absorption.

Zancrow's flame, again, didn't become his own despite the fact Natsu did manage to absorb it, he just blasted it out of his body. Again, this is evident by the fact it's not like every time he gets a boost in power. He neither regains energy, or heal, or even use the flames later on. He shoots them back out for one attack and that's it. And all flames, if consumed, should give Natsu energy back. That's literally how Dragon Slaying magic works and nothing Zancrow says points to it having any special properties that would stop this if Natsu found a way to eat them. His flames are simply superior for doing damage to a person with high fire resistance and he can eat Natsu's flames while Natsu can't his. That's it.

I actually felt a little curious about him reflecting anything that wasn't a projectile, as I felt I remembered something.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--7-dKnM-o5A/UWFXY7WL-pI/AAAAAAAADvA/K9tjUwKSWa0/s0/019.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xcXowN0HdSg/UWFXZOOwQbI/AAAAAAAADvI/hDexsXhEVLI/s0/020.png

It's her sword instead of her body, but there's no observable magical energy on it. Guila is certainly using her explosion even if not as a projectile, or as a visible clump of energy otherwise Meliodas couldn't Full Counter. Yet she's still imbuing it in something instead of launching it all on it's own, and the technique works the same as always. But if you have any reason why a sword would be different from his own body when both are being imbued, I'd like to hear why.

He was in a war 3000 years ago, a war with people that could fight him no less, but the point is that after that is an entire 3 thousand years of Meliodas living with no reason to kill people after. And yes, observing people. That actually helps you learn how others fight, surprisingly enough.

Though as a side note, a thing that bothers me is that Natsu is skilled, but most of his fights aren't an issue of skill - is about being able to actually hurt or touch the enemy at all. His friendship power up moments is not about gaining another dan in karate, but about actually hurting the guy that's been pummeling him before (Kinda like Nanatsu). His development feels more about statistics or his fire magic than pure fighting skill, so my doubts remain (but I am not saying Meliodas is better. I feel they are equal in this regard at the very least).

Also, this still doesn't change the fact every hit is just fuel for Revenge Counter, which I've seen no argument against.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
His profile says he has resistance to x and y, then a comma and THEN absorption (of natural and magical flames). Nothing at all about resisting absorption.
Zancrow's flame, again, didn't become his own despite the fact Natsu did manage to absorb it, he just blasted it out of his body. Again, this is evident by the fact it's not like every time he gets a boost in power. He neither regains energy, or heal, or even use the flames later on. He shoots them back out for one attack and that's it. And all flames, if consumed, should give Natsu energy back. That's literally how Dragon Slaying magic works and nothing Zancrow says points to it having any special properties that would stop this if Natsu found a way to eat them. His flames are simply superior for doing damage to a person with high fire resistance and he can eat Natsu's flames while Natsu can't his. That's it.

I actually felt a little curious about him reflecting anything that wasn't a projectile, as I felt I remembered something.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--7-dKnM-o5A/UWFXY7WL-pI/AAAAAAAADvA/K9tjUwKSWa0/s0/019.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xcXowN0HdSg/UWFXZOOwQbI/AAAAAAAADvI/hDexsXhEVLI/s0/020.png

It's her sword instead of her body, but there's no observable magical energy on it. Guila is certainly using her explosion even if not as a projectile, or as a visible clump of energy otherwise Meliodas couldn't Full Counter. Yet she's still imbuing it in something instead of launching it all on it's own, and the technique works the same as always. But if you have any reason why a sword would be different from his own body when both are being imbued, I'd like to hear why.

He was in a war 3000 years ago, a war with people that could fight him no less, but the point is that after that is an entire 3 thousand years of Meliodas living with no reason to kill people after. And yes, observing people. That actually helps you learn how others fight, surprisingly enough.

Though as a side note, a thing that bothers me is that Natsu is skilled, but most of his fights aren't an issue of skill - is about being able to actually hurt or touch the enemy at all. His friendship power up moments is not about gaining another dan in karate, but about actually hurting the guy that's been pummeling him before (Kinda like Nanatsu). His development feels more about statistics or his fire magic than pure fighting skill, so my doubts remain (but I am not saying Meliodas is better. I feel they are equal in this regard at the very least).

Also, this still doesn't change the fact every hit is just fuel for Revenge Counter, which I've seen no argument against.
Click to expand...
Just because it's not on the profile doesn't mean it's not true. Besides, the fact that it resisted absorption is proof on it's own that it can resist absorption. That's because the God Flames resisted/were the anti of his Dragon flames, he even explained that he could only absorb it by releasing all the dragon flames. The reason he doesn't retain it is because it literally is the opposite of his flames.

No, the explosion is seen in the bottom right. It comes out of the tip of the rapier.

No, I'm saying there's no evidence of him observing the way they fight. Everytime we see him in a war zone he's just surrounded by the dead bodies of his opponents.

I'm arguing that Mel is defeated before Revenge Counter can be used.
 
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