HST Showdown - (Round 2 - Friendly Rivals)

[Lynieryz]

Uryu FRA

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Feats for Genjutsu making spirit ribbons aka “soul” invisible to users by controlling mind? That’s not an antifeat for KS, but a feat.

Spirit ribbons should be even deeper than normal souls. Like Ichigo need to learn the technique specifically where he was clearly able to see souls. So Sasuke Should definitely need feat for affecting on that scale.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Bruh tryna push my buttons.

Layers doesn't matter as Bleach characters higher Reastu negs abilities of those kind. Additionally.

Layers do matter. Power null can only nullify abilities up to the level they have shown

Itachi Genjustu makes a world where 1 sec = 3 days.. Obito Never did that and it's specific ability of Itachi. Each Sharingan has different abilities. You should check each of their pages. Amaterus is special abilities for Sasuke and Itachi alone. Madara or Obito can't use that also it's based on Sharingan abilities. Obito having better Genjustu or different kind wouldn't be far fetched.

Read the scan she was talking ocular Genjustu not normal.

What you waffling on about? Ocular genjutsu is ocular genjutsu. Itachi can still cast normal genjutsu that isn't tsukuyomi. Bruh, my Naruto knowledge is dusty as hell yet even this is clear. Genjutsu can be cast with the sharingan. It doesn't matter about it's special abilities as any form of sharingan can use genjutsu.

She wasn't talking about ocular genjutsu and there are numerous feats that defeat this claim

Attack itself is made of up spiritual matter so it does slip past them unless you explain how spiritual matter blocked by physically without any feats.

Prove it. Where's the evidence? If this is true why tf do their attacks destroy physical objects? You're making a pretty bold claim here. There's nothing suggesting their attacks slip through obstacles not to mention spiritual forcefields

Already explained above regarding each mangekyo Sharingan having distriction. Itachi had amaterus and torturing Genjustu in each of them Obito had teleportation who knows he may have different unique Genjustu by Going with how Itachi had two different things with his own eyes. It's not far fetched. Also why didn't Itachi Justu worked on the guy whom Obito used Genjustu if you claimed Obito Genjustu was superior?;

What are you even saying? The mangekyou only possesses 2 special abilities, 1 in each eye and both of Obito's is teleportation. Still the eyes standard function includes casting genjutsu. What 3rd ability? When did Itachi try to genjutsu Yagura? When did I say Obito's gj was superior?

Doesn't prove Itachi Genjustu>

Naruto 101. IT> Kotoamatsukami> Tsukuyomi> Mangekyou GJ> 3T gj

Naruto has Senjustu also other shinobi never shown feats for sensing limbo clones. It's completely headcanon. When did Sasuke put Naruto under Genjustu after he got six path chakra?

Did you just decide to temove all the other sensory feats and take only Naruto? Naruto was still susceptible to IT either way and Sasuke had to protect him from it.

Base Aizen was able to put Espadas under KS. Each Espadas has Mind Manipulation Resistance enough to regain consciousness amongst Millions of other hollows and has to keep that consciousness all the time resisted not to let other personality take over. Yama countered his technique by pain and spiritual pressure sensing.

Uryu can do the same beside he has enough skills the catch the spirit ribbons and identify Sasuke location. I still don't see how Sasuke Genjustu counters any of that.

Uryu can literally use shadow technique to teleport away if Sasuke uses almighty push. Still Sasuke runs out of gas before Uryu knowing Uryu can just stack up Reishi from surrounding meanwhile Sasuke can't.

Sharingan Genjutsu is mind manipulation. Uryu won't be doing shit once he's caught end of story.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Everyone's talking about spirit ribbons but boy won't even be able to move. How does seeing ribbons help him?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Not gonna respond to others it will be back and forth. So i will just respond to other things you brought up

She wasn't talking about ocular genjutsu and there are numerous feats that defeat this claim

She was indeed talking about how to smoke Uchias so that's clearly ocular Genjustu

Prove it. Where's the evidence? If this is true why tf do their attacks destroy physical objects? You're making a pretty bold claim here. There's nothing suggesting their attacks slip through obstacles not to mention spiritual forcefields

Everything in Bleach has souls. That's why. It's not the same rule for other verses.

Did you just decide to temove all the other sensory feats and take only Naruto? Naruto was still susceptible to IT either way and Sasuke had to protect him from it.

That's just resistance for Sasuke. Other shinobi has zero feats for sensing anthings on 6th senses mind giving examples.

Sharingan Genjutsu is mind manipulation. Uryu won't be doing shit once he's caught end of story.

KS is indeed mind manipulation, illusion creation and perception manipulation. Check Aizen page and it takes more than 6th senses. Countering it is big feat than countering Sharingan

Everyone's talking about spirit ribbons but boy won't even be able to move. How does seeing ribbons help him?

Why wouldn't he be able move. Sasuke can't put Uryu under sleep because of Resistance Uryu has. As for Perception I already explained. Spiritual Senses in bleach far exceeds Naruto.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Everyone's talking about spirit ribbons but boy won't even be able to move. How does seeing ribbons help him?

Aizen can do all of these. Bleach characters senses are strong enough to react to these when gets attacked. With Blut Uryu can still counter Sasuke Genjustu.

Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation (Aizen’s Shikai, Kyoka Suigetsu[24] allows Aizen to manipulate all of his targets 5 senses[25], including their sense of time[26] and spiritual sight and sensing[27]. The manipulation of the senses allows Aizen to hide things from his targets sight, and could even make a fly seem like a dragon and a swamp a flower garden. Kyoka Suigetsu’s ability takes affect when the target sees the release of Kyoka Suigetsu. This ability is called Kanzen Saimin, and it allows Aizen to create flawless illusions for his target[28]. Aizen can use this ability to create entire false battles through illusions[29]. Aizen additionally can use his illusions to mask entire buildings and maintain the appearance that an entire board of dead people were alive[30]. Being aware of being under the illusion or that it's coming does not help resist it[31]),

 

[Reio35]

P

Madara literally puts kurama under genjutsu and fights entire battles with him yet kurama isn't released. Some physical pain isn't gonna automatically get you out the genjutsu that's a wild take

And again sasuke isn't a sitting duck. He has flight, teleportation as well as his own arrows and almighty push as a giant aoe Shockwave to negate projectiles

Pretty sure tailed beast are just slaves to genjustu and that's a feat for madada not sasuke

 

[Reio35]

Everyone's talking about spirit ribbons but boy won't even be able to move. How does seeing ribbons help him?

Uryu can still move while having his nerves paralyzed by mayuri

 

[SlendVeny]

Verbatim stated physical attacks don't affect souls.

That's specifically for Dan's jutsu. Also, "ghost that transcends the body" doesn't mean soul.

 

[SlendVeny]

P

Pretty sure tailed beast are just slaves to genjustu and that's a feat for madada not sasuke

Rinnegan Genjutsu > MS Genjutsu.

 

[Tatsumi504]

She was indeed talking about how to smoke Uchias so that's clearly ocular Genjustu

Feats say otherwise.

Everything in Bleach has souls. That's why. It's not the same rule for other verses.

Doesn't matter, que Aizen's attacks destroying a hill, variou "soul" attacks not slipping through physical matter

That's just resistance for Sasuke. Other shinobi has zero feats for sensing anthings on 6th senses mind giving examples.

You do know 6th sense is anything that doesn't fall under sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell right? Now repeat that again.

KS is indeed mind manipulation

Nope, no mind manipulation unfortunately.

Why wouldn't he be able move. Sasuke can't put Uryu under sleep because of Resistance Uryu has. As for Perception I already explained. Spiritual Senses in bleach far exceeds Naruto

Two words, Mind Manipulation

With Blut Uryu can still counter Sasuke Genjustu.

Mf you did not just utter that. In what way shape or form, by what means is that even gonna work?

and that's a feat for madada not sasuke

Sasuke puts them in genjutsu and seals them in chibaku tensei hurling giant rocks at them in the process. Put danzo in a genjutsu while they were having a life and death battle and there's multiple other feats. There's no difference between their genjutsu so stop all this "it's a feat for x" BS

Uryu can still move while having his nerves paralyzed by mayuri

Yes, while he still has a functional mind. Once in genjutsu his mind is at Sasuke's beck and call so this as well is meaningless

 

[Lynieryz]

Doesn't matter, que Aizen's attacks destroying a hill, variou "soul" attacks not slipping through physical matter

A hill has a soul in Bleach, even atoms have a soul in Bleach.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Doesn't matter, que Aizen's attacks destroying a hill, variou "soul" attacks not slipping through physical matter

Everything is made up of souls. Even drinking water as souls. Also hill Aizen destroyed was in SS society

You do know 6th sense is anything that doesn't fall under sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell right? Now repeat that again.

Characters in Bleach has feats for fighting even 6th sense removed Check Kenpachi vs Tosen

Nope, no mind manipulation unfortunately.

Perception Manipulation covers mind manipulation. Check the explanation page

Two words, Mind Manipulation

Perception Manipulation covers mind manipulation

Mf you did not just utter that. In what way shape or form, by what means is that even gonna work?

It's a defence technique which works like a shield. You even scratch eyes of Uryu when blut is active. In character every Quincy has that active from the beginning. Especially Uryu is pretty good at using that.

Also it has properties for auto backfire on characters who attacks them. Like how it blasted off Yhwach when Yhwach attacked Ichigo. Forgot but it was definitely blut as far as I remember.

Bleach characters has more senses than what Naruto can handle

Sixth sense (soul) < Spirit ribbon < Reikaku

 

[Tatsumi504]

A hill has a soul in Bleach, even atoms have a soul in Bleach.

Should still only destroy the soul in it nit the entire thing

Also hill Aizen destroyed was in SS society

Nah, my memory is dusty but I'm positive mugetsu clapped Aizen in Karakura town

Characters in Bleach has feats for fighting even 6th sense removed Check Kenpachi vs Tosen

Still means nothing. Mind manipulation is mind manipulation

Perception Manipulation covers mind manipulation. Check the explanation page

It doesn't, it only deals with the senses

Also it has properties for auto backfire on characters who attacks them. Like how it blasted off Yhwach when Yhwach attacked Ichigo. Forgot but it was definitely blut as far as I remember.

Bleach characters has more senses than what Naruto can handle

Sixth sense (soul) < Spirit ribbon < Reikaku

Still doesn't matter. More senses≠ circumventing mind manipulation

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Should still only destroy the soul in it nit the entire thing

Nah, my memory is dusty but I'm positive mugetsu clapped Aizen in Karakura town

Still means nothing. Mind manipulation is mind manipulation

It doesn't, it only deals with the senses

Still doesn't matter. More senses≠ circumventing mind manipulation

Perception Manipulation can co exists with mind manipulation. Also I already gave explanation for how Espadas resists Mind Manipulation of other hollows within them. You are ignoring all of that.

More senses in bleach means you can counter illusions and Perception manipulation which has byproduct of mind manipulation.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Base Aizen was able to put Espadas under KS. Each Espadas has Mind Manipulation Resistance enough to regain consciousness amongst Millions of other hollows and has to keep that consciousness all the time resisted not to let other personality take over.

this isnt nearly as impressive as you think it is, unless you can quantify the sentience of these hollows and their own resistances, we dont purely base potency solely on the amount effected anymore.

 

[Tatsumi504]

7 layers of mind manipulation>>>baseline. Perception manipulation only deals with the senses, what one perceives not the mind

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

this isnt nearly as impressive as you think it, unless you can quantify the sentience of these hollows and their own resistances, we dont purely base potency solely on the amount effected anymore.

The thing is only one consciousness takes over millions of them meanwhile others also keeps fighting. It's also stated there is possibility of other hollows personality Overwriting current hollow mind which is in control. Let me look for the scan. It was pretty much brought up in Bleach discussion thread multiple times.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

that doesnt really answer what i was saying but okay lol

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

that doesnt really answer what i was saying but okay lol

I get that. But isn't it normal to assume 1 single hollow need to Overwrite millions of hollows personality and keep resisting them forever otherwise other hollows within it can Overwrite current hollow personality. I don't see it any other way.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

7 layers of mind manipulation>>>baseline. Perception manipulation only deals with the senses, what one perceives not the mind

Illusion creation is literally ability of mind manipulation. What do you mean Perception manipulation and illusion are not mind manipulation. It's just usage is different.

Mind Manipulation is the ability to manipulate and control the minds of others.

It is associated with Telepathy and Mind Reading, and these powers are often possessed by the same characters. While basic mind manipulation can be used for psychic suggestion and simple manipulation, higher-level users of this ability can completely control others, drive them insane, plague them with illusions and hallucinations, and even rip their minds from their bodies.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

it depends on the mechanics involved

I get that. But isn't it normal to assume 1 single hollow need to Overwrite millions of hollows personality and keep resisting them forever otherwise other hollows within it can Overwrite current hollow personality. I don't see it any other way.

 

[theultimate5105]

Anti feat? That's some dumb shit I am hearing as an argument.

anti Feats actually exist, surprising I know. If an illusion fails to work against an extra sense, it doesn’t mean that extra sense is immune to illusions that can effect additional senses

There is nothing as anti feats it's just character can use certain methods to break out of techniques. Also Who said anything about anyone resisting KS? I am talking about Spiritual Senses being able to break free of abilities like KS. Unohana found out about Aizen KS with her senses alone. Aizen was scared to fight Kenpachi because of kenpachi Senses countering KS.

They literally never broke out of KS with just senses, also again Genjutsu doesn’t care

Characters has memory manipulation Resistance. It only works on humans in Bleach. Each soul Reapers carries memory wiping kits if that was easy enough to wipe out Memories of opponents they wouldn't even need to fight.

Genjutsu is layered

Also Souls has resistance to sleep manipulation in the Physiology page.

Genjutsu is layered

Spirit ribbons & Spiritual Senses are way above Sasuke Genjustu grade to put it as mind control.

Spirit ribbons can literally be hidden just through an illusion which blocks extra sense which Genjutsu can do

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

anti Feats actually exist, surprising I know. If an illusion fails to work against an extra sense, it doesn’t mean that extra sense is immune to illusions that can effect additional senses

I already explained why it's not anti feat.

They literally never broke out of KS with just senses, also again Genjutsu doesn’t care

Yama did caught Aizen check the fight.

Genjutsu is layered

Not layered based on 6th senses.

Genjutsu is layered

Not layered based on 6th senses.

Spirit ribbons can literally be hidden just through an illusion which blocks extra sense which Genjutsu can do

Show me feats for his Genjustu hiding something beyond sixth sense perception. Otherwise it's NLF.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

it depends on the mechanics involved

Well I will try to ask arc or Deceived to do a CRT regarding hollows Mind Manipulation Resistance. They would explain better than me

 

[Kidkinsey]

Well, it isn’t like Genjutsu alone is gonna kill Uryu or anyone here.

I meannnnnnnn

 

[Naeblis495]

High level genjutsu absolutely can kill. But not sure if war arc sasuke have access to those .

 

[Kidkinsey]

He has the best GJ potency in the verse he definitely does. But he had genjutsu that could kill even before the 5 kage summit

 

[speedster352]

Would genjutsu work on a soul? Because genjutsu doesn’t work on edo tensei

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Would genjutsu work on a soul? Because genjutsu doesn’t work on edo tensei

it does

 

[SlendVeny]

Would genjutsu work on a soul? Because genjutsu doesn’t work on edo tensei

It works on Bijuu, who are made of 100% Chakra.

 

[speedster352]

It works on Bijuu, who are made of 100% Chakra.

But that’s still not a soul and also they do have physical bodies in the real world except when in the inner world they are chakra.

it does

Scans?

 

[Naeblis495]

He has the best GJ potency in the verse he definitely does. But he had genjutsu that could kill even before the 5 kage summit

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but i only find info on him having feat of killing with genjutsu in sasuke Shinden , wich is after the war arc version we use of him.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but i only find info on him having feat of killing with genjutsu in sasuke Shinden , wich is after the war arc version we use of him.

There's a novel that details the events of sasuke after the itachi fight but before the bee fight. It's there he kills somebody with a Gj VERY similar to tsukyomi which killed the guy. He was very fatigued afterwards

 

[AppleLord]

There's a novel that details the events of sasuke after the itachi fight but before the bee fight. It's there he kills somebody with a Gj VERY similar to tsukyomi which killed the guy. He was very fatigued afterwards

Does the person die in an instant without able to move? If Uryu has a single second he can reverse with Antithesis. Hopefully that person that died with that level of Genjutsu was on Uryu's level. Otherwise, we do not known if it would even kill Uryu since it hasn't been shown to kill someone on Uryu's level.

 

[Naeblis495]

There's a novel that details the events of sasuke after the itachi fight but before the bee fight. It's there he kills somebody with a Gj VERY similar to tsukyomi which killed the guy. He was very fatigued afterwards

I stand corrected then. Thanks.

 

[theultimate5105]

I already explained why it's not anti feat.

no you did not

Yama did caught Aizen check the fight.

land exactly why would this matter

Not layered based on 6th senses.

Not layered based on 6th senses.

is layered based on 6th senses, extra senses are not counters to much weaker genjutsu

Show me feats for his Genjustu hiding something beyond sixth sense perception. Otherwise it's NLF.

Not beyond 6th sense perception and it can effect sixth senses

 

[Stryker861]

im voting sasuke

 

[speedster352]

A

Does the person die in an instant without able to move? If Uryu has a single second he can reverse with Antithesis. Hopefully that person that died with that level of Genjutsu was on Uryu's level. Otherwise, we do not known if it would even kill Uryu since it hasn't been shown to kill someone on Uryu's level.

Any luck getting the bleach supporters?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Unless @Godernet slides with a really convincing argument for how Sasuke bypasses Uryu's 6th sense + Antithesis combo, I'm voting Uryu.