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Sensing Zoro's power
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(GRACE) 2 Yonko Commanders fighting Fire with Fire!
- Thread starter Eseseso
- Start date
DaMonkeMan
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And Ace's feats?
DaMonkeMan
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I vote Ace for having an immunity to the majority of King's attacks, possibly better observation, and being able to adapt and learn a lot in fights ( iirc he kept trying to take out Whitebeard and kept learning and readjusting his techniques to hit him ). Though King is faster and more durable, but those traits never coincide because he has to lose one trait for the other, so...
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I'll add your vote.
He's immune to King's fire, that is true.
His Kenbun is definitely >= to King's, although their profiles both list them as having intermediate Kenbun
Actually, King is >= in speed even with flames on, as while both he and Ace are on Marco's level (as King in base directly scales to Marco while Ace scales to Akainu who scales to Marco), King also scales to Zoro (who reacted to Kaido and Big Mom) AND he can boost his speed with his Zoan form which is confirmed to boost his speed.
And while his durability takes a hit if his flame goes off, not only will he be ******* blitzing Ace with how fast he is with the flame off, but it's not like Ace can one-shot him with flames off, especially since King has solid fire resistance himself.
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Can't Ace just put out the flames on King's back by absorbing it? This would be a great counter to his durability, and I believe King's Speed Amp isn't that much of a problem, as Ace has already reacted to attacks from Whitebeard, the admirals, can also boost his own speed with fire and has far better precog.
Ace's flames are so hot that it even burned Whitebeard's skin, who has an absurd resistance to heat, I don't know if King could handle them. King's advantage would be at close range, as Ace doesn't master physical combat, but his feats, like keeping up with Yamato and Jinbe (two natural fighters at close range as well) don't allow me to assume he'd be stomped in that regard.
Area of effect is an absurd advantage for Ace whether with dragons, Hiken or Entei, things Ace can spam (remember the first Hiken Ace launched in the series, so vast it swallowed multiple ships easily). Frankly I think Ace wins but King is a better fighter I would say. Ace likely wins with high difficulty.
Ace's flames are so hot that it even burned Whitebeard's skin, who has an absurd resistance to heat, I don't know if King could handle them. King's advantage would be at close range, as Ace doesn't master physical combat, but his feats, like keeping up with Yamato and Jinbe (two natural fighters at close range as well) don't allow me to assume he'd be stomped in that regard.
Area of effect is an absurd advantage for Ace whether with dragons, Hiken or Entei, things Ace can spam (remember the first Hiken Ace launched in the series, so vast it swallowed multiple ships easily). Frankly I think Ace wins but King is a better fighter I would say. Ace likely wins with high difficulty.
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This
DaMonkeMan
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Are you voting for Ace? That's makes 3 votes for Ace and 2 for King ( Eseseso and SnookB though the latter didn't yet provide a great reason for why he voted)
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DaMonkeMan
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He didn't really do that against Marco since he had Queen helping him out IIRC.
Eminiteable
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Don't remember that being a relative factor for whether King turned his flame on or off.
DaMonkeMan
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It means he didn't have to completely try against him since it was a 2v1.
Eminiteable
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I get what you're saying but the majority of the fight between them shown was King v Marco with Queen only ever attacking Marco once in retaliation for being attacked, majority of the time Queen focused on others besides Marco (Hyogoro/Chopper/Sanji). It may have played a factor but considering the lack of contribution Queen was actively putting in would suggest to me King just didn't have a reason to use it.
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@Eseseso I'm still not voting but i'll admit this is an intersting matchup, congrats!
There's also Van Auger saying he had excellent combat prowess, Masked Deuce saying he's a tremendous fighter no matter powers(while his DF ability was countered by the Darkness Fruit & Armament Haki) and him getting training from Garp like Luffy. Yeah, i don't think Ace is gonna get outskilled in H2H either.
Doesn't King fight Marco on 1v1 for ~ 20 minutes, Chopper's Rumble Ball runs out and then it becomes a 2v1 again?
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I still think King's Zoan stat amp, Buso Haki (which let him dominate start-of-fight Buso Zoro [who scales >= Marco in AP] and let him block Zoro's Haoshoku attacks even though they pushed him back), solid flame resistance, and monstrous flame-on durability let him get the win.
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Thanks!
True, but King is a solid swordsman with his sword that he can use Buso on.
Yeah he fought 1v1 with Marco for 20 minutes, and in the anime his base and Zoan basically go blow for blow with Marco for 20 minutes.
Do you know who you think will win now?
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Have a verdict yet?
DaMonkeMan
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NP
He has beaten haki swordmen in his spinoff manga(granted they were weaker than King). He could dodge King's sword strikes thanks to better observation haki
Yeah, he clashed with Marco's wing in his human form & kicked him in his zoan form.
?Marco is the strongest WB Commander making him superior to Ace. King would upscale in physicality from Ace thanks to fighting Marco for that long, even making him use the Immortal Thistle later(granted Marco was tired for that last one). Ace won't neccessary be able to maipulate King's fire if it's too powerful. IIRC when he was fighting a vice admiral in his novel he couldn't manipulate the firestream of flamethrowers that had enough force to push him back. King's Dragon Emperor is akin to magma so that defenetly ain't gonna get controlled by Ace & might potentially burn him like Sakazuki's magma(tho to a lesser extend). Meh i think King probably takes it.
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DaMonkeMan
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I assume he can considering that's the point of his power- turning into and manipulating all types of fire.
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Maybe that's pushing it. We see him controlling regular fire yes, but he ain't controlling Marco's fire, probably not the homies since they're souls either. I'm not gonna assume he can do it with King either, or if it'd work the same way it would if KING switched it for offense either.
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Haki could potentially nullify his flame Absorption attempt either way.
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King basically has a counter for everything Ace can throw at him.
Ace is immune to fire attacks? Just use Danmaku wind attacks from zoan form.
Close quarters combat? Haki sword negates logia powers.
Flame on back somehow gets absorbed? Blitz the shit out of Ace while using either Haki or Zoan form to boost his stats.
Ace is immune to fire attacks? Just use Danmaku wind attacks from zoan form.
Close quarters combat? Haki sword negates logia powers.
Flame on back somehow gets absorbed? Blitz the shit out of Ace while using either Haki or Zoan form to boost his stats.
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Reasons?
Sorry but I need reasoning before I add you to the list.
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I forgot about haki resistance
nevermind, it doesn't matter either way ig. My vote stays for King. Even without using his fire attacks he's still got that nasty headbutt, danmaku and a speed advantage.
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Not to mention 2 different AP amps (Zoan form + Buso Haki) and far superior speed w/o flame.I forgot about haki resistance
nevermind, it doesn't matter either way ig. My vote stays for King. Even without using his fire attacks he's still got that nasty headbutt, danmaku and a speed advantage.
DaMonkeMan
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King's fire isn't specifically special though.
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And natural resistance to ace's heat.
And the fact that if Ace hits him he can self-detonate
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It might or might not. Zoro notes at it being like magma so it's clearly different, as well as the fact that there could be a difference between turning it off against his will vs him choosing to channel it to his blade to enter his speed mode.
And like Emin said- haki resistance.
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Him tanking the self-detonation is one of his best dura feats, btw, since it would've killed Zoro who tanked the Hakai (yes, the Hakai broke Zoro's bones but it didn't kill him) had Zoro not used Buso Haki.
His other best dura feat is his Zoan flame-on form literally tanking with zero damge a move that cut Kaido's scales.
Not to mention, flame-on King tanked a Shishi Sonson, and keep in mind when Zoro did that in a weaker key it did notably more damage to Apoo than a pissed off Base Kidd's Punk Gibson.
If Ace can't get rid of the flame, he's not doing any notable damage to King.
And unlike Yamato, who beat King in their fight, he doesn't have enough AP/durability to warrant King trying to blitz him, since unlike Yamato (who had Kaido-lvl AP plus stat amps from her DF and Hao Infusion), King has more than enough AP to take down Ace. Also, Yamato had Thunder Bagua to blitz King, while Ace has no speed Amps and King has 2 normal ones (Zoan + Flame Off) and Imperial Pride Stake is even faster so it'd absolutely blitz Ace and severely hurt him.
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DaMonkeMan
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He can react to this, seeing as he has Observation, was trained by Garp as a child ( Garp him self is fast enough to speed blits Marco right in his face ), and was able to intercept a Magma Punch from Akainu.
Counter argument: Why can't Ace just output Conqueror's and negate King's fruit? Then that'd get rid of most of his arsenal, and he'd just be a really durable dude with Armament and a sword.
I already gave reasons for why Ace would react to this.
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Yeah no, King in his tanking mode being called invulnerable by Queen was almost no exaggeration. It took a Zoro who can injure schmega-durable Yonko an ACoC boost to even make him feel worried about taking a hit in that state.
DaMonkeMan
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Yeah, the Zoro who was severely injured before that fight and was only even able to fight him due to the medicine he was given.
Eminiteable
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Zoro's a Hao infusion user and that didn't happen when he fought King.
Ace isn't doing shit.
DaMonkeMan
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TBF Zoro wasn't aware that Haki can affect DF users like that, and thus wasn't outputting Haki with intent to stop him. And I guess Ace might not know that weakness either, though.
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Bruh, he can't do that.
Zoro had much better Haoshoku when he fought King and that didn't happen.
Eminiteable
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Hao infusion when activate passively outputs Hao as shown with BM and Zoro himself, if Hao was enough to do that to King it would have happened with Zoro.
DaMonkeMan
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Wait why would this even matter? Like I said Ace could very likely react to King's attacks and counter so I don't think he'd need to null his DF.
