Fixing Zeref's Mistake in Fairy Tail

[AKM sama]

More like, fixing the mistake in Zeref's profile from Fairy Tail.

So I stumbled upon this page due to people memeing on it.

Universe level with Neo Eclipse (By merging the power of Fairy Heart and the Space Between Time, Zeref was going to reset time back at least 400 years and relive his life[3], which was going to destroy the present universe and create a new one[4]).

The problem with this is self-explanatory. Time reset hax =/= attack potency or environmental destruction.
In the scans linked above (here and here), Zeref says that he will reset time by 400 years and relive his life. A simple time reset hax.

Zeref also uses fancy words to explain what will be the result of this time reset. Basically, everything that happened in the past 400 years, will disappear (will never have happened) as a result, which is no different than the result of any normal time reset.
For example, if I am resetting time by 10 seconds, every event in the last 10 seconds will cease to exist, and time will take off again from that point on. Putting it in fancy words as Zeref does, it will result in erasure or "destruction" of everything/"world" in the last 10 seconds which will then be replaced by a new set of events, a new "world".

It obviously doesn't mean that Zeref (or Neo Eclipse) has the attack potency to destroy an entire universe and its matter in one shot with an energy blast, neither is he actively causing any harm to the environment with storms or hurricanes, or any direct destruction. Thus, it has no business to be listed in the AP section, or as "Environment Destruction".
We don't give these to any time user of the kind, neither to characters who destroy the present timeline by going back in time and messing something up, nor to characters who create an entirely new timeline by going back in time and ******* something up. Or any other being who resets time by 10 minutes or 10 centuries.

This is a basic time manipulation/reset hax ability, and should simply be listed under P&A as "Time Reset", and its results should be explained there. Which is already there:

Neo Eclipse has the power to reset time back at least 400 years and allow Zeref to relive his life[3], which destroys the present universe and creates a new one

Although I suggest to remove the last part of the sentence as it is highly misleading and gives people the wrong idea, which ultimately leads up to mistakes like these.

Neo Eclipse has the power to reset time back at least 400 years and allow Zeref to relive his life[3]

This is more than enough information regarding what a time reset is supposed to be.

 

[Armorchompy]

Unless some context changes this, this seems right

 

[Everything12]

I agree here.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yeah, sounds pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Damage3245]

I have to agree. I don't think this is an AP feat.

 

[Everything12]

(Is it just me or does this feel similar to a certain incident where a recent upgrade was overturned by unanimous agreement from Staff.)

 

[Tllmbrg]

Yah sounds at best like a chain reaction thing to me

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Unless there's some context we're missing here, the OP makes sense to me and the scans seem to indicate that it's just a time reset ability. I agree with the OP.

 

[Confluctor]

Agree with the OP

 

[DemonKingAkuto]

Agree with OP.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I already said before in the upgrade thread that it was simply a time reset so yes I agree with the OP here

 

[Everything12]

Let's not start that, okay. (Not talking to you Pain or Akuto.)

 

[Everything12]

I thought I said not to, this is not the thread for this. Keep it relevant to the CRT and debate using actual evidence.

 

[Nierre]

I'll wait for Mitch's input.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

This is definitely time manipulation and not AP. There's probably a lot of characters that would Universal if we treated feats like this and I agree with AKM that "time reset hax =/= attack potency or environmental destruction".

A well known example of time reseting is the movie Groundhog Day and as funny as it'd be, I don't think we should have Universal Bill Murray.

 

[RoyGundam]

Makes sense. Kinda identical to the GER and King Crimson time-hax situation

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Can someone rq explain the difference with Pucci’s case cuz he get a cosmic tier for his time reset.

 

[Damage3245]

Can someone rq explain the difference with Pucci’s case cuz he get a cosmic tier for his time reset.

As far as I'm concerned, Pucci should not have his rating too. He's just accelerating the natural process of reality as far as I can tell.

If somebody fast-forwarded time on a star so that it would naturally go supernova in a short time frame, I wouldn't say they have Large Star level attack potency.

 

[Theglassman12]

This looks fine, don’t really understand how a time reset could correlate to AP and not just hax.

 

[KingTempest]

As far as I'm concerned, Pucci should not have his rating too. He's just accelerating the natural process of reality as far as I can tell.

If somebody fast-forwarded time on a star so that it would naturally go supernova in a short time frame, I wouldn't say they have Large Star level attack potency.

Damn, hate to say it but this is a great point.

Would just be uni range with time manip I'm assuming?

I can agree with the CRT

 

[RoyGundam]

As far as I'm concerned, Pucci should not have his rating too. He's just accelerating the natural process of reality as far as I can tell.

If somebody fast-forwarded time on a star so that it would naturally go supernova in a short time frame, I wouldn't say they have Large Star level attack potency.

Agreed. Someone should make that CRT

 

[RoyGundam]

If somebody fast-forwarded time on a star so that it would naturally go supernova in a short time frame, I wouldn't say they have Large Star level attack potency.

Maybe they would though? In this particular example, they would be capable of performing a High 4-C attack that may be directly combat-applicable (Bad example is all I'm saying)

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that AKM makes sense above.

Also, he is just trying to act as quality control for our statistics. There is nothing inherently wrong with that.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Maybe they would though? In this particular example, they would be capable of performing a High 4-B attack that may be directly combat-applicable (Bad example is all I'm saying)

Not quite imo. In this case, the Supernova isn't quite a result of their AP, but a byproduct of their hax speeding up a naturally occurring process. Simply put, the star was going to go supernova regardless, the character in question simply skipped forward to that point.

 

[Imouto-tan]

I don't know man Pucci controls all gravity (due to affecting everything within the universe with his Stand's ability) in the universe and by extension he controls time by using his gravity manipulation to accelerate time throughout the universe being that his powers seemingly rely on Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity and General Relativity. So it really isn't the same thing exactly

EDIT: I'd argue that he (Pucci) deserves some Tier due to his (Stand) ability to control Gravity actually being able to affect planets, stars, and well pretty much everything within the universe all at once because again his Stand is the one controlling the gravity to make time accelerate which is, in turn, causing the Stars to go supernova and rocks to erode near instantly. So I feel like it is both HAX and AP (sorta) for Pucci.

 

[RoyGundam]

Not quite imo. In this case, the Supernova isn't quite a result of their AP, but a byproduct of their hax speeding up a naturally occurring process. Simply put, the star was going to go supernova regardless, the character in question simply skipped forward to that point.

Yeah, but suppose if someone could teleport themselves and their enemy near to a star, make it go supernova and get out of the way, they'd have a legit High 4C AP with the specific technique

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yeah, but suppose if someone could teleport themselves and their enemy near to a sun, make it go supernova and get out of the way, they'd have a legit High 4C attack

I mean, technically yeah? But let's say a character could teleport someone into a volcanic eruption or a Black Hole, we wouldn't give them 6-B or 4-B AP then, would we? It's just a clever usage of BFR imo, and has nothing to do with a character's own energy output.

 

[Epsilon_R]

We should talk about JoJo in another thread

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

has nothing to do with a character's own energy output.

Well tbf ED doesn’t have anything to do with a characters normal AP energy output

 

[RoyGundam]

let's say a character could teleport someone into a volcanic eruption or a Black Hole, we wouldn't give them 6-B or 4-B AP then, would we?

I mean, if that was a repeatable and consistent tactic used by the character in question ... Maybe we should ? At least for the specific attack but not generally

 

[Everything12]

Yeah the whole Jojo and other stuff is derailing now. This shouldn't be continued here.

 

[RoyGundam]

Actually I think there is broad consensus that it should simply be time hax and not actually AP, so perhaps the changes can be applied and thread closed ?

 

[Theendzero13]

Agree with the op

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Fine, whatever, I don’t care anymore

 

[LordGinSama]

As far as I'm concerned, Pucci should not have his rating too. He's just accelerating the natural process of reality as far as I can tell.

No Pucci's his different, he actually managed to successfully destroy the Jojo main timeline and created a new one with several major changes.


Zeref's Neo Eclipse is more identical to King Crimson's Erasure then it is to Made in Heaven. Made in Heaven can causes direct destruction. The comparison between Neo Eclipse and Made in Heaven are made by Fairy Tail fans who don't have the proper context. They just saw "reset." and figured it should work the same.


Edit: Agree with the OP until something new is brought up, but the terrible comparisons need to stop

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well tbf ED doesn’t have anything to do with a characters normal AP energy output

Yes, but this particular case we're discussing isn't even something that the character himself produces, it's strictly a byproduct of a hax.

I mean, if that was a repeatable and consistent tactic used by the character in question ... Maybe we should ? At least for the specific attack but not generally

Said attack is just BFR or Time Acceleration, it's not AP. The character using it a certain way should just be noted in the powers and abilities section, but it's not AP because he or his attack isn't producing the energy required to perform said attack. That's my view on it.

Yeah the whole Jojo and other stuff is derailing now. This shouldn't be continued here.

My apologies, I'll stop derailing. I just wanted to clear this point up, but it'll be my last post on the matter.

 

[Imouto-tan]

As far as I'm concerned, Pucci should not have his rating too. He's just accelerating the natural process of reality as far as I can tell.

If somebody fast-forwarded time on a star so that it would naturally go supernova in a short time frame, I wouldn't say they have Large Star level attack potency.

While not a huge Jojo fan I don't actually agree with Pucci getting a downgrade due to something that has to do with Zeref as how their abilities work is completely different in practice and contextually.

Pucci's Stand has the ability to affect the gravity of everything on a universal scale and would have to increase it greatly in order to be able to accelerate the time of objects with their own powerful gravitational forces i.e. Stars

As Gin stated Pucci's Stand-ability is what caused the destruction of the OG timeline and made the new one

 

[Zackra1799]

Alright I try to drop my 2 cents on this. There appears to be a misconception about what the Neo Eclipse is doing, Zeref isn't going 400 years back into the current timeline as that would be a form of time travel which Zeref makes explicitly clear that the neo eclipse isn't time travel.

Zeref states "The moment I pass through these doors this world will crumble away and my new world will takes it place" He isn't going to a specific point in the timeline he is simply deleting the current version of the world and remaking the version that existed 400 years in the past.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Alright I try to drop my 2 cents on this. There appears to be a misconception about what the Neo Eclipse is doing, Zeref isn't going 400 years back into the current timeline as that would be a form of time travel which Zeref makes explicitly clear that the neo eclipse isn't time travel.

Zeref states "The moment I pass through these doors this world will crumble away and my new world will takes it place" He isn't going to a specific point in the timeline he is simply deleting the current version of the world and remaking the version that existed 400 years in the past.

I was initially going to agree with the OP but after seeing this I want to hear more about this.
I’m neutral.

Fine, whatever, I don’t care anymore

?

 

[Theendzero13]

Alright I try to drop my 2 cents on this. There appears to be a misconception about what the Neo Eclipse is doing, Zeref isn't going 400 years back into the current timeline as that would be a form of time travel which Zeref makes explicitly clear that the neo eclipse isn't time travel.

Zeref states "The moment I pass through these doors this world will crumble away and my new world will takes it place" He isn't going to a specific point in the timeline he is simply deleting the current version of the world and remaking the version that existed 400 years in the past.

Do we know for a fact this ain't flowery language?