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Fixing Zeref's Mistake in Fairy Tail

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Yes, it's self-evident why 3-A is nonsensical. Something similar happened in Mortal Kombat 11 as a character could reset time to its dawn and thus create a new universe/era/timeline, only few inexperienced users had the idea of this being AP, we could put a note about it in the Time Manip page as there will always be people believing that "creating a new universe" or the like will mean 3-A or Low 2-C as, in a vacuum, a sentence like that means so, regardless of how this wouldn't be the case in context as the universe would create itself due to the passage of time and whatever unquantifiable (tier-wise) abilities were used to make events and actions play out unlike in the universe before.
 
Zackra1799 said:
Future Rogue and Future Lucy came to the past, they made multiple branching timelines
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Did they? My memory of the arc is a bit foggy but IIRC both of them die in the past and we don't really know what happened to the future or the timeline. The past was clearly changed by their actions, but I'm not sure about whether that caused a timeline split
 
LordGinSama said:
Edit: Shit this isn't even a Jojo thread so I'm not sure why Pucci is being brought up despite his stuff being inherently different than Zeref's.
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This is technically my fault, but I'd like to point out that I had specifically only mentioned King Crimson and GER in my original post
 
Zackra1799 said:
The Destruction of the universe isn't the result of the new timeline.

"The moment I pass through these doors this world will crumble away and my new world will takes it place" in this quote Zeref states that the destruction of the timeline happens before the new universe is created, and not as a result of the current timeline being reverted. The destruction happens before the time reset as its the sequence of events that takes place

1. Zeref walks through the doors.
2. The current timeline gets destroyed.
3. The new world is made.
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Agree here, Zeref makes constant note of how the old world will be destroyed and a new one will be made in its place, so not only is he destroying the old world, he's making a new one as well.
 
I agree with the OP and with the Pucchi downgrade.

Zackra1799 said:
The Destruction of the universe isn't the result of the new timeline.

"The moment I pass through these doors this world will crumble away and my new world will takes it place" in this quote Zeref states that the destruction of the timeline happens before the new universe is created, and not as a result of the current timeline being reverted. The destruction happens before the time reset as its the sequence of events that takes place

1. Zeref walks through the doors.
2. The current timeline gets destroyed.
3. The new world is made.
Click to expand...
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Agree here, Zeref makes constant note of how the old world will be destroyed and a new one will be made in its place, so not only is he destroying the old world, he's making a new one as well.
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How would either of these contradict the idea that the destruction and creation is just the result of time paradox based chain reactions?

"Initiating time hax -> former present gets destroyed -> new present is created" is a perfectly valid description of the order of events of a timeline being rewritten from a time paradox.
 
You're not creating or destroying a new universe via raw power though, you're just returning to a point in time via time manipulation.
 
Can we assume it to be a chain reaction rather than flat-out destruction? Or is that only being assumed because it says it's a time reset?
 
Definitely agree with the revision, but zeref would still have 3A range and stuff. I already pointed out that the reason for it being attack potency was flimsy at best, but the OP seems to have basically said everything on my mind. Still waiting for that Pucci downgrade, tho.
 
Didn't we already have a Pucci Low 2-C CRT back in 2019?

What could have possibly changed in two years that would make any of the arguments for Low 2-C invalid?

EDIT: Because generating enough energy for a Low 2-C feat is 2-C, heck, A character can still get an AP via environmental destruction.

I.e. Lord Drakko and Funny Valentine for example.
 
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Imouto-tan said:
Didn't we already have a Pucci Low 2-C CRT back in 2019?

What could have possibly changed in two years that would make any of the arguments for Low 2-C invalid?
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similar arguments that would make the arguments of 3A Neo Eclipse invalid, but I'll have to check more into Pucci's case. Anyway, we should stop derailing.
 
Tarang123 said:
similar arguments that would make the arguments of 3A Neo Eclipse invalid, but I'll have to check more into Pucci's case. Anyway, we should stop derailing.
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Fair point I apologize for derailing it again though to be honest I am not sure if I agree with the OP after looking at the Pucci's CRT from 2019

Because like I said in my edit a character can still get an AP via environmental destruction similar to both Lord Drakko and Funny Valentine for example.

I'd argue that it should be listed as 3-A with Neo Eclipse or whatnot. Much like how MiH is still 8-C Zeref is whatever Tier he is but Neo Eclipse is 3-A due to environmental destruction still granting an AP.

Eficiente said:
Pucci's profile outright says that he is Low 2-C via time acceleration and with MiH itself being 8-C, he can't punch others in the face with time acceleration. Pucci is Low 2-C via being able to do something that's Low 2-C, just like a character would be "5-B via something" if it were able to blow up a planet and not kill or harm everyone in it, you would think that this is simple enough yet here we are.
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This pretty much sums up the Pucci downgrade from 2019
 
Imouto-tan said:
Fair point I apologize for derailing it again though to be honest I am not sure if I agree with the OP after looking at the Pucci's CRT from 2019

Because like I said in my edit a character can still get an AP via environmental destruction similar to both Lord Drakko and Funny Valentine for example.

I'd argue that it should be listed as 3-A with Neo Eclipse or whatnot. Much like how MiH is still 8-C Zeref is whatever Tier he is but Neo Eclipse is 3-A due to environmental destruction still granting an AP.
Click to expand...

Sorry for derailing the conversation once again just felt that I needed to point this out because to be honest the arguments for Neo Eclipse not scaling wouldn't work as MiH =/= Neo Eclipse that's just something that you guys made up to make a case for downgrading Neo Eclipse.

EDIT: I am really trying to be as respectful as possible when sending these messages and not trying to detail the conversation, I just work so long each day that I really wouldn't be able to speak my mind in a meaningful way
 
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M3X said:
Why even mentioning Pucci, Made In Heaven doesn't even manipulate time, it's gravity. MiH affects gravity on a universal scale that in turns affects space-time, destroying the universe and creating a new one.
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I wasn't even the one who originally mentioned Pucci that honor goes to Damage who stated that he has no problem also downgrading Pucci for the same reasons Zeref should get downgraded.

Though I don't think that Pucci should get downgraded due to both Lord Drakkon and Funny Valentine having AP due to environmental destruction and nobody has had a problem with them having such on their pages. Back in 2019 when the original CRT for Pucci was made everyone came to the agreement that MiH has a Low 2-C feat via environmental destruction and Pucci and MiH physically don't scale.

Logically this would mean Zeref can have Neo Eclipse with 3-A due to environmental destruction and not scale to it attack-wise

This honestly just seems like a farce the more that I think about it, mainly due to those who oppose Pucci are saying Time Reset HAX without proper context for it. If Lord Drakkon and Funny Valentine, and Pucci have had AP that they don't personally scale to for years then why can't Zeref?

Heck there was once a notation (on Pucci too no less) that these APs are for environmental destruction and they don't scale to attacks.
 
M3X said:
Why even mentioning Pucci, Made In Heaven doesn't even manipulate time, it's gravity. MiH affects gravity on a universal scale that in turns affects space-time, destroying the universe and creating a new one.
Click to expand...
Thank you! this is explained very clearly, MiH time manipulation is irrelevant as it's byproduct of his universal gravity manipulation.


Why it's been getting compared to Neo Eclipse for the longest time is beyond me.
 
I dont have anything to say but I want to clarify to those who dont understand what's going on. So basically the argument is that

Zeref goes back in time -> due to going back in time a butterfly effect kind of thing happens -> because of butterfly effect the previous universe is now not there and a new future is created -> so zeref isnt the one creating the new future/universe but the cause of the creation of the new universe

BUTTERFLY EFFECT: I am going to give and example. So if you go back in time to a point before humans existed and accidentally kill a creature on ground you could have stopped that creature evolve to humans, so now because you killed that creature humans wont exist. Even the smallest change in the past can cause big issues in the future, this is called butterfly effect.

Now I am asking a question, did you create a new universe or caused a new universes creation? You caused it.

This is the basically what this thread about
And also the pucci thing but Im not going to talk about it since it's the topic of op

I tried explaining what's going on I hope you understand
 
Damage3245 said:
Correction!

I wasn't the one who originally mentioned Pucci.

That honor goes to Arc7Kuroi who asked:

"Can someone rq explain the difference with Pucci’s case cuz he get a cosmic tier for his time reset."
Click to expand...

That's a fair point however you are the one claiming that MiH = Neo Eclipse without proof or context.

You didn't care about derailing to Pucci before and you didn't even try to give a good reasoning for why you believe MiH is the same thing as Neo Eclipse in your head.

AKM sama said:
I guess we can go ahead and implement this change.

I'll make a Pucci thread if people want to discuss it after this thread is closed.
Click to expand...
Oh this will be fun just like 2019, hopefully people study up before then became seeing as their understanding of MiH doesn't align with the facts
 
That's a fair point however you are the one claiming that MiH = Neo Eclipse without proof or context.
Click to expand...
You didn't care about derailing to Pucci before and you didn't even try to give a good reasoning for why you believe MiH is the same thing as Neo Eclipse in your head.
Click to expand...

Correction!

I never said that Made in Heaven works the exact same way as Neo Eclipse.

I said this:

He's just accelerating the natural process of reality as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

Which is not how Neo Eclipse works.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Imagining you shouting "Correction!" irl is a very hilarious image lmao
Click to expand...
Gives vibes of this, eh?:

phoenix-wright-objection.jpg.pagespeed.ce.E8lhrPEsEb.jpg
 
Damage3245 said:
Correction!

I never said that Made in Heaven works the exact same way as Neo Eclipse.

I said this:



Which is not how Neo Eclipse works.
Click to expand...
You are framing it as if what MiH is the same thing as Neo Eclipse by saying that the Time Acceleration speeding up the natural process is consequential to who MiH is doing.

MiH is using universal gravity manipulation and the time acceleration is byproduct but as I pointed out before you are framing time acceleration as the main thing that MiH is doing but that's not the case here. MiH is controlling the gravity of the entire universe at once with it's power with the Time Acceleration coming from that because the Theory of Relativity, besides it is already accepted that his ability works on nonliving things and just because he cannot affect people doesn't make his gravity manipulation less potent.
M3X said:
Why even mentioning Pucci, Made In Heaven doesn't even manipulate time, it's gravity. MiH affects gravity on a universal scale that in turns affects space-time, destroying the universe and creating a new one.
Click to expand...
M3X and LordGin phrases this a lot better than I but you keep ignoring it for some reason
LordGinSama said:
Thank you! this is explained very clearly, MiH time manipulation is irrelevant as it's byproduct of his universal gravity manipulation.


Why it's been getting compared to Neo Eclipse for the longest time is beyond me.
Click to expand...
Here you go if you actually want to read up and educate yourself before you keep showing your ignorance about the Jojoverse and how MiH works

Eficiente said:
I have no idea what even are the arguments in the OP.

Pucci's profile outright says that he is Low 2-C via time acceleration and with MiH itself being 8-C, he can't punch others in the face with time acceleration. Pucci is Low 2-C via being able to do something that's Low 2-C, just like a character would be "5-B via something" if it were able to blow up a planet and not kill or harm everyone in it, you would think that this is simple enough yet here we are.
Click to expand...
And this fitting as the Anti-Pucci gang has used the same argument that you came to me with in the 2019 revisions of the Jojoverse.

Though I should probably wait for the Pucci CRT to repost this all for you to read
 
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