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Demon Slayer (Kimetsu no Yaiba) - Breath of Discussion: 5th Form

"And for 1.Maintaining and actually creating those Ice sculptures would clearly take extremely different amounts of energy it’s far easier to keep something in existence than to poof it out of seemingly no where in a flash"

That can probably be different from case to case but it is a valid and logical assumption. That being said, if his physical constitution is connected to his maintaining of his ice creations, then it is probably connected to the creation as well with how strongly connected Blood Demon Arts and the Demons they belong to are. Kanao's comment about his massive technique clearly indicates that she expected the poison to weaken his Blood Demon Art alongside his physical condition.
 
Blood Demon Arts are not independent of physicals; when demons grows stronger both their BDA and physical strength/durability grow; so demons have a magic system where both physical and non-physical abilities are connected (this is currently consistent with wiki standards, though staff will debate this after the site-wide heat revisions start). Rui stated that he can make his body stronger than any thread he can create, which suggests that durability takes priority.

An argument can be made for 8-A Doma as well, since before he was weakened he was able to casually create and maintain multiple clones which he claims to be as powerful as him.

I made a calc for lifting strength


ElRyh54W0AAgZe4
ElOaJudUUAEJLFt

Anyone thinks the movie will gross more than Spirited Away and Your Name?
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Blood Demon Arts are not independent of physicals; when demons grows stronger both their BDA and physical strength/durability grow; so demons have a magic system where both physical and non-physical abilities are connected (this is currently consistent with wiki standards, though staff will debate this after the site-wide heat revisions start). Rui stated that he can make his body stronger than any thread he can create, which suggests that durability takes priority.

An argument can be made for 8-A Doma as well, since before he was weakened he was able to casually create and maintain multiple clones which he claims to be as powerful as him.

I made a calc for lifting strength


ElRyh54W0AAgZe4
ElOaJudUUAEJLFt

Anyone thinks the movie will gross more than Spirited Away and Your Name?
Click to expand...
Oh ok then makes sense but for Doma I feel the most he should get is Possibly or Likely 8-A at full power not flat out 8-A

And I feel Infinity Train will make more than both at this rate
Also on the calc Class K rengoku seems alright and characters who are above him in Arm wrestling or interchangeable in the ranking should also get it
Class 25 for characters like Tanjiro And those he scales to is also consistent
 
Last edited:
Nehz_XZX said:
Well, I've tried to think about what reasons there are for Doma to overall scale to his creation feat and looked through the manga and the Kimetsu no Yaiba wiki for that. This is what I managed to come up with:

1. Doma's ice replicas of himself broke the moment he began to feel the effects of Shinobu's poison which shows that there is a connection between his physical constitution and his ice creations.

2. Kanao's comment about him being able to use such a massive technique despite being weakened by Shinobu's poison implies that this is supposed to be a feat of power on Doma's part.

3. Blood Demon Arts and Demons are so interconnected that the Blood Demon Arts are affected by sunlight and Nichirin swords the same way they affect demons. This is displayed by how Tanjirou was able to undo the effects of Muzan's shockwave scream on his body by stabbing himself and Yushiro outright stated that in his thoughts as the reason why he couldn't do anything when Tanjirou was turned into a Demon.
Click to expand...
Well, the three reasons here are not wrong in of itself, but I don't think they support Doma physically scaling to his ice structure.

1. It is undeniable that there is a deeper and more "magical" connection between Doma and his ice structures as they are his blood demon art, however I don't think that's enough for us to assume that Doma's physical strikes themselves would scale to them, or at the very least not to his Ice Buddha, which is evidently his special attack.

2. It is a feat of power, but again it doesn't work as evidence that his physical blows would scale to his strongest creation type BDA which he uses to attack others, or his ability to freeze would scale to his physical blows for that matter. However, this would count as evidence to give Doma a possibly higher rating for his Ice Buddha or BDA as it was done when he was weaker.

3. Well this is true, but again isn't necessarily a proof that Doma would scale to his Ice Buddha. There are arguments to be made for Rui and his threads, but a) Rui mainly attacks with his threads (hence his ratings are solely based on his threads), compared to Doma who uses fans, b) aside from creating them, Rui seem to be manipulating them using his own physical ability, Doma does not c) Rui has explicit feats of using his threads against himself, while Doma does not, and d) there's still a considerable difference between producing and manipulating solid objects from manipulating temperatures, even if Doma could control the structures created by his freezing.

Another proof as of how Blood Demon Arts, especially creation, doesn't always translate to scaling to a demon's physical AP is looking at other demons' BDA. I'm quite certain the Swamp Demon, while not necessarily creating it continuously, did create the Swamp at some point with its BDA, but it doesn't scale to it. Nor does the Biwa Demon who controls the Infinity Fortress.

In any case, I wouldn't be too opposed if Doma's 8-B rating remains the same, with enough justifications. It would seem like assuming that Doma's Ice Sculptures work the same as Rui's threads would be the best arguments for it.

***********

In any case, Kimetsu no Yaiba: Mugen Train is now the fifth highest grossing film of all time in Japan, grossing over ¥20.4 billion (nearly 200 million dollars). If nothing else, it would surpass Your Name, especially if Mugen Train opens to western theatres.
 
"Another proof as of how Blood Demon Arts, especially creation, doesn't always translate to scaling to a demon's physical AP is looking at other demons' BDA. I'm quite certain the Swamp Demon, while not necessarily creating it continuously, did create the Swamp at some point with its BDA, but it doesn't scale to it. Nor does the Biwa Demon who controls the Infinity Fortress."

I don't think that we have a timeframe for the creation feat of the swamp and Nakime doesn't even have a profile on top, we also don't really know how the Infinity Fortress came to be, so I don't think that these examples quite work.
 
Metalballrun said:
Well, the three reasons here are not wrong in of itself, but I don't think they support Doma physically scaling to his ice structure.

1. It is undeniable that there is a deeper and more "magical" connection between Doma and his ice structures as they are his blood demon art, however I don't think that's enough for us to assume that Doma's physical strikes themselves would scale to them, or at the very least not to his Ice Buddha, which is evidently his special attack.

2. It is a feat of power, but again it doesn't work as evidence that his physical blows would scale to his strongest creation type BDA which he uses to attack others, or his ability to freeze would scale to his physical blows for that matter. However, this would count as evidence to give Doma a possibly higher rating for his Ice Buddha or BDA as it was done when he was weaker.

3. Well this is true, but again isn't necessarily a proof that Doma would scale to his Ice Buddha. There are arguments to be made for Rui and his threads, but a) Rui mainly attacks with his threads (hence his ratings are solely based on his threads), compared to Doma who uses fans, b) aside from creating them, Rui seem to be manipulating them using his own physical ability, Doma does not c) Rui has explicit feats of using his threads against himself, while Doma does not, and d) there's still a considerable difference between producing and manipulating solid objects from manipulating temperatures, even if Doma could control the structures created by his freezing.

Another proof as of how Blood Demon Arts, especially creation, doesn't always translate to scaling to a demon's physical AP is looking at other demons' BDA. I'm quite certain the Swamp Demon, while not necessarily creating it continuously, did create the Swamp at some point with its BDA, but it doesn't scale to it. Nor does the Biwa Demon who controls the Infinity Fortress.

In any case, I wouldn't be too opposed if Doma's 8-B rating remains the same, with enough justifications. It would seem like assuming that Doma's Ice Sculptures work the same as Rui's threads would be the best arguments for it.

***********

In any case, Kimetsu no Yaiba: Mugen Train is now the fifth highest grossing film of all time in Japan, grossing over ¥20.4 billion (nearly 200 million dollars). If nothing else, it would surpass Your Name, especially if Mugen Train opens to western theatres.
Click to expand...
I feel Mugen Train when it arrives in the US will do super well but not as crazy in Japan

In the rest of the world the series is just popular in Japan or debatably South East Asia it’s a cultural Phenomenon
 
I suppose I should call it less of a proof but more accurately as a precedent. Regardless my points still stand.

Demon Slayer is super popular in arguably every single anime fandom internationally. In the US, it may not gross as much as in Japan but it'll definitely draw huge numbers as much as current times allow. Releasing it in western countries that handled the pandemic smartly and allow theatres would contribute to it breaking records even further.
 
"I suppose I should call it less of a proof but more accurately as a precedent. Regardless my points still stand."

Okay.
 
Changing Topic a little bit from Douma I’d like to ask out of curiosity why do we consider Kaigaku’s Lightning to be as fast as real Lightning outside of it just being his BDA.

If you don’t know why I’m asking this it’s about the Massively Hypersonic+ Zenitsu Calc because I’m curious.

Also why do we have so many characters listed as Superior to Zenitsu when Zenitsu was the only one capable of outright outpacing Muzan when everyone was exhausted including Zenitsu himself was exhausted.
Shouldn’t most Slayers aside from Sanemi Gyomei Tanjiro and Yorichi be listed as Comparable to Zenitsu
 
Last edited:
Doma's war fans are likely made from his demonic body, similar to Kokushibou's sword and the various weapons generated by the emotion clones. And Rui can control his threads telekinetically, and generate them from a distance. Rui's physicals are explicitly higher than his special BDA attack, furthermore BDA attacks are deflected by Demon Slayers' attacks who often struggle to cut through the neck.


As for the BDA lightning, per wiki standards non-natural lightning attacks can be assumed to be as fast as cloud-to-ground lightning if they demonstrate some properties of real-world electricity and if the character can produce 1.6 x 10^9 Joules. Some staff want to make the standard more restrictive, so there will be a lightning CRT in the future.

BDA lightning are used by Sekido/Zohakuten and Kaigaku, and they demonstrated arc movement, conducting through the body of people, causing muscles to spasm and immobilization with continuous flow, can be insulated against (Tanjiro used Urogi's claw when he realized lightning doesn't pass through their bodies), and they caused branching lichtenberg pattern scars on Zenitsu.


The argument is that Zenitsu didn't master Repetitive Action during the Pillars Training so he is inferior to Tanjiro and Inosuke (though he basically used it by remembering his grandfather against Kaikagu and Muzan). And that Inosuke scales to Pillar level by scaling to Konoe and cutting Muzan's arm before the other nerfs kicked in, while Zenitsu struggled against Kaikagu (though Zenitsu held back until the end because he wanted to fight him as equals one last time). Zenitsu will likely get upgraded.


Final Volume cover (thus, all hopes for a solo Zenitsu cover dies), plus cool Rengoku and Akaza statues.

EminJvbXMAAFDX8

EmaEYmBWEAADWg_
EmaEYl7XEAE8Dgv
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Doma's war fans are likely made from his demonic body, similar to Kokushibou's sword and the various weapons generated by the emotion clones. And Rui can control his threads telekinetically, and generate them from a distance. Rui's physicals are explicitly higher than his special BDA attack, furthermore BDA attacks are deflected by Demon Slayers' attacks who often struggle to cut through the neck.


As for the BDA lightning, per wiki standards non-natural lightning attacks can be assumed to be as fast as cloud-to-ground lightning if they demonstrate some properties of real-world electricity and if the character can produce 1.6 x 10^9 Joules. Some staff want to make the standard more restrictive, so there will be a lightning CRT in the future.

BDA lightning are used by Sekido/Zohakuten and Kaigaku, and they demonstrated arc movement, conducting through the body of people, causing muscles to spasm and immobilization with continuous flow, can be insulated against (Tanjiro used Urogi's claw when he realized lightning doesn't pass through their bodies), and they caused branching lichtenberg pattern scars on Zenitsu.


The argument is that Zenitsu didn't master Repetitive Action during the Pillars Training so he is inferior to Tanjiro and Inosuke (though he basically used it by remembering his grandfather against Kaikagu and Muzan). And that Inosuke scales to Pillar level by scaling to Konoe and cutting Muzan's arm before the other nerfs kicked in, while Zenitsu struggled against Kaikagu (though Zenitsu held back until the end because he wanted to fight him as equals one last time). Zenitsu will likely get upgraded.


Final Volume cover (thus, all hopes for a solo Zenitsu cover dies), plus cool Rengoku and Akaza statues.

EminJvbXMAAFDX8

EmaEYmBWEAADWg_
EmaEYl7XEAE8Dgv
Click to expand...
Makes a lot of sense for Kaigaku
I feel like he also deserves a page of his own

Yeah Zenitsu was heavily holding back the entire fight against Kaigaku instant he wanted to end the fight he cleanly One shot him even While injured so the argument that he basically used it makes sense
Zenitsu likely getting an upgrade is good it’s kinda painful seeing him as the only member of team Tanjiro outside tier 8 plus it feels there is more evidence for Tier 8 Zenitsu than against
If he ends up in 8-C with at most 8-B I’ll probably have a good match up for him

Poor Zenitsu didn’t get a solo cover oh well I suppose.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Makes a lot of sense for Kaigaku
I feel like he also deserves a page of his own

Yeah Zenitsu was heavily holding back the entire fight against Kaigaku instant he wanted to end the fight he cleanly One shot him even While injured so the argument that he basically used it makes sense
Zenitsu likely getting an upgrade is good it’s kinda painful seeing him as the only member of team Tanjiro outside tier 8 plus it feels there is more evidence for Tier 8 Zenitsu than against
If he ends up in 8-C with at most 8-B I’ll probably have a good match up for him

Poor Zenitsu didn’t get a solo cover oh well I suppose.
Click to expand...
Also another thing I forgot to mention I kind of have a problem with how See Through world Demon slayer Mark Tanjiro/Non Self State is rated.
Idk why he’s Likely 8-B+ he should be At least 8-B likely Higher
or At least 8-B possibly 8-A for how badly he Outclassed Akaza and cleanly cut his neck.
Even though demon necks can tank attacks from characters relative to them.
Just makes sense to me
 
Can Tanjirou headbutting Sanemi be used as evidence for the durability of his head scaling above Sanemi's head?
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Can Tanjirou headbutting Sanemi be used as evidence for the durability of his head scaling above Sanemi's head?
Click to expand...
Honestly maybe unironically his head is noted to be absurdly durable and hard.

What would his dura rating be Small Building level
Building level with head lmao

Inb4 Multi City Block level Higher with Head

Also on a side note Young Rengoku probably deserves a key
 
Last edited:
Just wanted to mention, an extra chapter for the epilogue of the series just release

This IMO is a far better ending chapter than the one we previously got, it also confirms a lot of things about couples and what the characters did after Muzan's defeat
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Honestly maybe unironically his head is noted to be absurdly durable and hard.

What would his dura rating be Small Building level
Building level with head lmao

Inb4 Multi City Block level Higher with Head

Also on a side note Young Rengoku probably deserves a key
Click to expand...
Sanemi is rated as At least Building level without the Demon Slayer Mark, so it would actually be Small Building level, At least Building level with head.

Young Rengoku fought against a Lower Moon 2. It's probably safe to assume that he was significantly stronger than Rui at that time.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Sanemi is rated as At least Building level without the Demon Slayer Mark, so it would actually be Small Building level, At least Building level with head.

Young Rengoku fought against a Lower Moon 2. It's probably safe to assume that he was significantly stronger than Rui at that time.
Click to expand...
Also he had a really weird reaction feat where he hit his ears before sound from a flute could reach him
It is weird but if Young rengoku got a key it could be there in speed rating justifications
He also managed to cleanly one shot that demon as well
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Also he had a really weird reaction feat where he hit his ears before sound from a flute could reach him
It is weird but if Young rengoku got a key it could be there in speed rating justifications
He also managed to cleanly one shot that demon as well
Click to expand...
The Rengoku who fought against the Lower Moon 2 would presumably upscale from that.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
So safe to assume his young key would probably be comparable in stats to like Post Recovery Training Tanjiro?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. Post Recovery Training Tanjiro fought against Enmu who was Lower Moon 1 and got a significant amount of blood from Muzan, so it isn't exactly a clear cut case. That being said, Rengoku was promoted to the position of pillar after beating the Lower Moon 2 and Tanjiro was only noted to be on the level of a pillar after the Pillar Training, so I'm not sure.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
I'm not sure. Post Recovery Training Tanjiro fought against Enmu who was Lower Moon 1 and got a significant amount of blood from Muzan, so it isn't exactly a clear cut case. That being said, Rengoku was promoted to the position of pillar after beating the Lower Moon 2 and Tanjiro was only noted to be on the level of a pillar after the Pillar Training, so I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
True but remember it was stated Enmu was holding back his power the entire time it’s still not clear cut and is open to several interpretations Tbh
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Here is Where he says it
Click to expand...
I guess the whole "merging with the train"-thing took quite a bit of strength from him. Otherwise, I wouldn't see why he would hold back.

I've also found that Rengoku considers Total Concentration: Constant to be only the first step to becoming a pillar. The first step of 10000 as he is putting it. I guess that means that the Young Rengoku who became a pillar is quite a bit stronger than Tanjiro was at that point of time.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
I guess the whole "merging with the train"-thing took quite a bit of strength from him. Otherwise, I wouldn't see why he would hold back.

I've also found that Rengoku considers Total Concentration: Constant to be only the first step to becoming a pillar. The first step of 10000 as he is putting it. I guess that means that the Young Rengoku who became a pillar is quite a bit stronger than Tanjiro was at that point of time.
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess I should’ve phrased it more as he didn’t get the chance to use everything he had.

Oh that’s interesting I remember those scenes so I suppose the gap between the two would have to be massive as Tanjiro as only on that first step
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Yeah I guess I should’ve phrased it more as he didn’t get the chance to use everything he had.

Oh that’s interesting I remember those scenes so I suppose the gap between the two would have to be massive as Tanjiro as only on that first step
Click to expand...
If I had to guess, I'd put Young Rengoku in terms of strength between Tanjirou's Post-Zeroshiki Training and Post-Pillar Training keys. Tanjiro was during the Pillar Training clearly not on par with the pillars and was stated by Giyu to be on the level of a pillar during the fight against Akaza, which is why I would place Young Rengoku's power between those keys.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Blood Demon Arts are not independent of physicals; when demons grows stronger both their BDA and physical strength/durability grow; so demons have a magic system where both physical and non-physical abilities are connected (this is currently consistent with wiki standards, though staff will debate this after the site-wide heat revisions start). Rui stated that he can make his body stronger than any thread he can create, which suggests that durability takes priority.

An argument can be made for 8-A Doma as well, since before he was weakened he was able to casually create and maintain multiple clones which he claims to be as powerful as him.

I made a calc for lifting strength


ElRyh54W0AAgZe4
ElOaJudUUAEJLFt

Anyone thinks the movie will gross more than Spirited Away and Your Name?
Click to expand...
Have the Lifting Strength calculations been accepted or discussed? It's been a month.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Comment section of the calc
Click to expand...
DemonGodMitchAubin agreed to the boulder calculations, if that is enough, then that can probably be applied. He didn't really agree with Kyojuro's calculation applying for his Lifting Strength though. While ShadowWhoWalks gave a response to that, it doesn't seem like as if he got a response back for that.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
DemonGodMitchAubin agreed to the boulder calculations, if that is enough, then that can probably be applied. He didn't really agree with Kyojuro's calculation applying for his Lifting Strength though. While ShadowWhoWalks gave a response to that, it doesn't seem like as if he got a response back for that.
Click to expand...
Guess we gotta wait then on the Lifting strength calc at least the train one but it seems there’s no issue at all with the two Boulder ones
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Not sure if it is alright but it’s an extremely minor change it’s just one rating
But it’s also for several characters so maybe it needs a quick CRT
Click to expand...
Okay, that can be organised. It might also be a good idea to contact DemonGodMitchAubin to ask him what his current opinion regarding Kyojuro's calculation is when taking ShadowWhoWalk's response into account.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Okay, that can be organised. It might also be a good idea to contact DemonGodMitchAubin to ask him what his current opinion regarding Kyojuro's calculation is when taking ShadowWhoWalk's response into account.
Click to expand...
I agree
Also In said CRT I also feel a young rengoku key and Post Pillar training Zenitsu’s possible rating should be discussed
Also Maybe if Kokushibo deserves a Likely 8-A
 
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