Death Battle Season Seven Discussion Thread (3) (Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[Davidsteel1]

Hm fairs, I remember getting frustrated with Agk at some point because of the way it went full on murder happy. A character would show up and then like a chapter or 2 later drop dead, made it difficult to give a damn (ironically the exact opposite of y ppl tend to dislike FT)

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Gray should still win IMO. With the stats on this wiki, she only wins with CiC. Even with those calcs they have done, she only wins via high-ends and if you give her CiC and assume she doesn't get killed by a much stronger and quicker Gray in base before she uses any bit of CiC but meh.

 

[Tipper17]

But isn't CIC a prep technique which something DB doesn't allow? Plus depending on how High invel feat is in the anime which could null Esdeath having an edge in DC

 

[Jasonsith]

But isn't CIC a prep technique which something DB doesn't allow? Plus depending on how High invel feat is in the anime which could null Esdeath having an edge in DC

Even if we give Esdeath ISCIC, the mechanism of ISCIC means that the amp from ISCIC comes from the size of the ice cavalry Esdeath had made before she used this Trump card. Say an ISCIC amped by three day preparation is proportionately much higher than ISCIC amped by thirty seconds. Unless Screwattack gave Esdeath three days ice cavalry work in advance, which is as unlikely as Doctor Strange would have been provided with Death and Eternity.

And even then, Gray may still have a speed advantage and some sealing and durability negation hax working around. (And even a win by a suicidal attack is considered a win in prior Death Battle episodes.)

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

We've been trying to figure out how much each ice soldier would buff esdeath by dividing the storm result by how much it would buff her.

Really, I don't think it matters since gray is anywhere from 100 to 500 times faster, and the fact is that Esdeath has never once creating a single ice cavalry soldier in a one-on-one battle in the entire series.

 

[ViperVillian25]

But doesn't ISCIC just replenish Esdeath's power? Why wouldn't she scale to EOS Tatsumi in base?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

It doesn't replenish her power, it buffs her. 2nd form Tatsumi and Akame were roughly comparable to Esdeath, but after CiC came out she clapped tyrant and Akame needed Enoodzuno

 

[ViperVillian25]

But that was also after she used Makahadoma which weakend her? Or did I read that wrong?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

It drains her reserves, but she got them back by absorbing her ice cavalry

 

[ViperVillian25]

Lastly why do people assume Grey won't be affected by Makahadoma? Incursio was already resistant to the cold and he was still affected up until he evolved and adpted to it a second time.

Grey was made to feel the cold against Invel.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Base gray was as Invel's ice was specifically said to be superior to normal ice. IDS gray has complete ice immunity (NLF, i know, but given the AP Advantage...).

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean, Invel's Ice could freeze other Ice, also Gray can absorb and amp himself with every single ice attack Esdeath uses, It's possible he could potentially just resist everything she does

Another thing that came to mind is that Gray is a Demon Slayer, and Esdeath's Teigu is called Demon's Extract, which is made up out of a bunch of totured souls right? That means Gray may be able to do durability negation because Esdeath has the properties of a Demon

I can actually see Gray pull this off

 

[ViperVillian25]

Demon Extract is just a name, it comes from a Danger Beast. Also Demon's from Fairy Tail usually come from the Book of Zeref, I would say that's too different.

Also isn't there a scan of Esdeath saying that she created each solider from her Ice Calvery one after the other? Wouldn't she at least need to be capable of some ISCIC power on her own?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

The Ice Cavalry were killed by fodder soldiers, so they don't scale to the storm. Neither does Esdeath especially when that would put her above purge mode shikoutazer.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Demon Extract is just a name, it comes from a Danger Beast. Also Demon's from Fairy Tail usually come from the Book of Zeref, I would say that's too different.

Like I mentioned earlier, I think DB would say that Dragon Slayer magic would work on the Tyrant Dragon that Incursio is made from so I think they would do the same for the Demon blood that Esdeath drank despite them being from danger beasts.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

(And even a win by a suicidal attack is considered a win in prior Death Battle episodes.)

Which is weird tbh, normally people consider that a draw

 

[DragonEmperor23]

and tbh, I don't think it being from a danger beast makes it invalid, I forgot cause it's been a while but aren't danger beasts just dangerous creatures? Nothing's really stopping a dragon or a demon from being classified as one.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

A few things wrong about Esdeath and AGK in general:

Demon's Extract is the blood of a Danger Beast. It's the blood of an animal essentially, it doesn't classify as an actual demon like the demons of Fairy Tail.

Drugged Akame and 2nd Stage Tatsumi aren't equal to base Esdeath. She was still playing around with them and was still casually above them. Plus, in these fights she was nerfed from having been making Ice Calvary the past few days.

Commander in Chief: Ice Storm doesn't amp Esdeath's base physicals nor even her Ice Creation. The power stored by the Ice Calvary is what is used to make CICIS and it's solely a large range attack on a continental scale. In fact, Esdeath implies that performing CICIS will little power could actually completely drain her and restrict further ice creation.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

CiC does amp Esdeath's physicals, quite drastically.

 

[Jasonsith]

Ppl don't like Esdeath? I mean she's an awful, horrible, down right not very good person... but she's hot and that tends to skew the scales

By the outlook, Gray attracts female ACGN fans as Esdeath attracts male ACGN fans. (You know why - aside from those with other genders and gender orientations)

Unlike Sasuke vs Hiei, it is debatable among even the ACGN fans pool who (Gray Fullbuster or Esdeath) will win. But Sasuke vs Hiei is like everyone thinks Sasuke would win then Screwattack says Hiei won. Also for Ryu vs Jin - people all think Jin will win by being more comparable to Kazuya than Ryu being comparable to Akuma - but eff that because Ryu finally broke the losing streak for Street Fighters in Death Battle.

How do you think about Duck Dodgers vs Darkwing Duck? Seemingly interesting but has Darkwing Duck done anything close to those Green Lantern or Lobo crap Duck Dodgers has done? (This is for the coming Community Death Battle)

 

[DragonEmperor23]

A few things wrong about Esdeath and AGK in general:

Demon's Extract is the blood of a Danger Beast. It's the blood of an animal essentially, it doesn't classify as an actual demon like the demons of Fairy Tail.

The Demons of Fairy Tail don't actually have any qualifications for being demons besides being called that. In many verses, demons are a species.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I'm male and gray attracts me

 

[Newendigo]

Esdeath is pretty attractive with her long blue hair and eyelashes, but the pale skin is sort of unerving.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

CiC does amp Esdeath's physicals, quite drastically.

It's not stated to do so. It isn't even stated to improve her in any way, Esdeath even implies it would drain her abilities potentially as she states that even after performing such a large move she is still able to use her normal abilities.

Also, the demons of Fairy Tail are stated to be demons such as in the species. This isn't the case for Demon's Extract.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What do you mean by that? The name of the teigu is "Demon God Manifestation: Demon's Extract" and it is blood. If there was a teigu with the same name but had the Demons replaced with Dragon, you would assume it is dragon blood, no?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

CiC does amp Esdeath's physicals, quite drastically.

It's not stated to do so. It isn't even stated to improve her in any way, Esdeath even implies it would drain her abilities potentially as she states that even after performing such a large move she is still able to use her normal abilities.
Also, the demons of Fairy Tail are stated to be demons such as in the species. This isn't the case for Demon's Extract.

The lack of statements doesn't matter compared to the blatant feats. You're making an assumption based on a single sentence that drastically contradicts what's actually shown.

 

[Tipper17]

Regarding the timestop DB could easily BS gray resisting it given he matched Natsu who broke outta of one

Besides as mentioned ICIC is prep technique not something she can Pull 24/7 as others stated

Practically it goes like this

ICIC Esdeath?>or<Devil Slayer Gray>Base Gray>Base Esdeath Really comes down to how they'll take it and what feats they'll scale the characters to especially in Gray in case considering DB do take liberties from anime as long it could support what the character can do And the biggest feats are the meteor and Invel

 

[Tipper17]

Frankly these are the key factors for the characters Esdeath case: 1:Will ICIC come into play? 2:How will DB interpretate her timestop 3:Will they scale her to the Shikoutazer in Base or ICIC

Gray case: 1:Will they take the anime into account as well like they done in the past 2:Will the feats they could scale him to nullify any chance of her having a possible DC advantage over him along him possibly resisting her timestop 3:could ice shell be coming into play

All in all this fight is the closest we had this season and Leo vs Jason was considered close by DB research team,how do they look this one?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

After reviewing the facts, I think it's pretty decisive for gray going off standard battle assumptions, but if you mess with the conditions, it becomes significantly more difficult to decide.

 

[Tipper17]

After reviewing the facts, I think it's pretty decisive for gray going off standard battle assumptions, but if you mess with the conditions, it becomes significantly more difficult to decide.

Pretty much Others mentions experience for Esdeath case but it practically works against her given Gray been doing this since he was a child not to mention facing various Ice users and folks who can manipulate time to a degree compared to Esdeath who never fought any of them

 

[Jasonsith]

After reviewing the facts, I think it's pretty decisive for gray going off standard battle assumptions, but if you mess with the conditions, it becomes significantly more difficult to decide.

Pretty much
Others mentions experience for Esdeath case but it practically works against her given Gray been doing this since he was a child not to mention facing various Ice users and folks who can manipulate time to a degree compared to Esdeath who never fought any of them

Saying Gray has the experience advantage with actual fighting experience against time manipulator and other ice user? Not 100% working this way but still a plus. And we know Esdeath can be outplayed by some super smart opponent who knows how to tackle with her hax.

So it jumps back to ISCIC Esdeath (?) Devil Slayer Gray
Devil Slayer Gray > Base Gray
Base Gray > Base Esdeath

... except do we agree on Esdeath only able to outpower Tyrant Tatsumi and Purge Mode Shikoutazer under an ISCIC amp?

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Correct. Furthermore, on the subject of CiC...

On a technical level, creating the storm itself does not require prep. She should be able to bust it out as long as she can create the ice cavalry. However, the storm would be drastically weaker than the one we saw in the manga, given that she obviously wouldn't have several days to create and store power in the cavalry one-by-one. Said cavalry could be killed by fodder soldiers, meaning Gray should also be able to take care of him.

Kirsche (One of the DB researchers) calced the storm a few months ago and got 411 petatons. Theoretically, you could either divide that by the timeframe or by the number of ice cavalry created to find out how much power she could build up for the storm. However, you also have to consider:

-Death Battle uses Mach 286 lightning, making gray anywhere from 107 to 516 times faster than Esdeath.

-Shikoutazer's base form crater was calculated at 26 teratons, while Gray is comfortably sitting at 389 teratons from our calculations of Invel's Blizzard.

-Esdeath has to create the cavalry one-by-one and store power in them individually.

-Esdeath somehow has to maintain the ice cavalry without them getting destroyed or absorbed by Gray.

-Esdeath has never used ice cavalry in a one-on-one fight in the entire series, anime OR manga.

-Ice Storm: Commander-in-Chief is still activated on a vocal command, and Esdeath has a habit of A) giving a monologue before using it, and B) It being an absolute last resort, even compared to Mahapadma/Mahakadoma. This is against an opponent from a verse where blitzing people before they cast magic is a thing, where even one of the first opponents in the series (The vanish bros) relied on that.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

huh, Gray really has fought a lot of ice users, Ur, his dad, Lyon, Ultear

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

That said, I don't think CiC really applies to physicality anyway, and she should just scale from Shikoutazer. but yknow

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Eh.

I do think Gray wins but the people who believe CiC is a base power she has have her scaling from the storm to any degree of continental or higher than Gray so they'd probably think he can't one-shot and apparently they think his hax won't work on her so

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Which of his hax? Besides the sealing (which I don't see him using), I don't see how they could argue that his absorption of her ice wouldn't work.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Gray is implied to have a limit to how much ice he can absorb. But sealing is a viable wincon since he is technically alive as the ice (and even as the water after it melts). He's been shown to bust it out against strong opponents.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Hell, wouldn't a single Ice Cavalry soldier be enough for Gray to feed off given their lackluster durability feats and his speed? He could be powering himself up to match her even if he reached his limit of ice absorption given they apparently have "petatons of energy" within them, making the AP gap still pretty damn close.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Like I said, slayers are implied (albeit not outright confirmed) to have a limit to how much they can absorb, evidenced by Wendy and Sherry's fight. But a single ice cavalry soldier (Assuming Kirsche's calc of 441 petatons and divided by 10,000 soldiers) would have roughly 4.4 teratons of energy stored within it. It'll restore a good chunk of his reserves, yes.

I'd argue the only way Esdeath can realistically win is if DB assumes she can bus out full-power commander-in-chief and assumes her to start in it at the beginning of the battle. But even then, given that gray is hundreds of times faster, he can get off iced shell without her being able to do anything to stop him.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Yeah, I agree. I think people who see Esdeath winning are only going off of her prime shit and not taking every context into account and assuming she can just casually hit with 441 petatons when that's simply not the case, and everything else regarding how much power a single soldier would have or if she had a small percentage of CiC she can activate in base are all just assumptions that vary too much to be reliable in a debate.