- 18,552
- 12,861
Going by the wiki definition for Aca Type 4, I think so.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Crisis Cosmology: Scaling Characters
- Thread starter Elizio33
- Start date
- Status
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #202
Acausality Type 4 makes senses
- 2,999
- 2,205
Only one of them should scale to it.
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #204
Disagree
- 2,999
- 2,205
Yes, none of them should have it. However, since they scale above beings that do. I just give them that although that reasoning isn't very strong.
- 2,151
- 2,107
Well, they've never been described as equal to my knowledge.Also another question, would the Speed Force and the Emotional Spectrum be Low 1-C (6-D) as they're compared to be on a similar level to the Sphere of the Gods, and are treated as one of the main Multiversal forces that make up the Multiverse. From Justice League (2018) #37
It also wouldn't make much sense, the Dimensional Superstructure for example is everything imaginable (i.e. the Fifth Dimension) and everything unimaginable (i.e. the Sixth Dimension), both of which exist beyond the Sphere of Gods.
- 2,999
- 2,205
You can make the point that the Dimension isn't rated the same as the others. While the others for the most part are.
- 2,151
- 2,107
But why. They've never been described as equal, so there is no reason to assume so.
Especially when one of them is verifiably not equal to the others,
Especially when one of them is verifiably not equal to the others,
- 2,999
- 2,205
Yeah, the 5th and 6th Dimensions are High 1-C, the rest are not. So no, they're not equal. He just means they should be around the same tier.
- 2,151
- 2,107
Again, they aren't said to be equal, so we shouldn't assume them to be so. And we are definitely not doing a "the exception, not the rule" without evidence.
- 2,999
- 2,205
They're not equal, I've mentioned it. Though we can scale the first few near each other.
- 2,999
- 2,205
They all play important parts, however, in terms of how much each one affects would be different. The Fifth and Sixth Dimensions literally permeate the entire Multiverse while something like the Emotional Spectrum does but nowhere near the scale of beings in those levels who can alter reality at will with their position. They're all important but how much more each one can affect definitely varies.
Bastolan27
He/Him- 989
- 1,012
The profiles have been unblocked.Thank you
Trigger
He/Him- 186
- 100
Apart from Michael and lucifer.
- 327
- 166
They will not be affected by these changes. There will be a bigger upgrade for the Gaiman-Carey cosmology in a different thread.
- 2,363
- 1,523
So, their tiers don't change?
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #218
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #219
Thank you. I'll update the profiles.
- 24,976
- 26,824
I'll help with the profiles I mentioned.
- 24,976
- 26,824
Wait a minute, where does High 1-C come from? Because from what I can tell, the 1-C is baseline.
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #222
High 1-C comes from the Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation whose the time half is Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time-based concept in addition to the 3 infinities above Low 2-C contained by the space half of the Divine Continuum.
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #223
I've made the edits for the profiles of Darkseid (Pre-Flashpoint), Hecate (DC Comics), and The Upside-Down Man (DC Comics), but the other profiles are still locked.
Last edited:
- 24,976
- 26,824
Can I get profiles unlocked for Post-Crisis Wally and Barry as well?
Flash (Barry Allen) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Barry Allen) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis)
- 24,976
- 26,824
Btw, I feel we should probably list the character's dimensionality on their AP sections, for convenience's sake.
- 18,552
- 12,861
Agreed, especially since I see more and more verses doing that nowadays and it honestly helps clear things up.
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #227
Agreed
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #228
Question. The Light of Creation should have its own profiles combining Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Presence (Crisis Cosmology) or simply add a key to all three profiles and a footnote explaining their relationship to each other and the Light of Creation?
- 2,999
- 2,205
The latter. Since it seems that Light is only connected to the Overvoid, being that it is the same thing. While the Presence seems to be more of the being that created the Light or kick-started it at the beginning. The Source can be differentiated now and I don't why people still think Presence = Overvoid = Source.
It doesn't make sense anymore and only Grant ever used the theory and never mentioned the Presence by name. I don't think the others intended on that since Snyder treated the Overvoid as space and not an actual being even retconning what Nil Monitors were. It was always a theory and never fully confirmed in the story.
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #230
There're unlocked
- 2,363
- 1,523
I just updated the Great Darkness' profile.
- 2,363
- 1,523
Also got the Presence and the Overvoid's profiles updated.
- 2,999
- 2,205
Mandrakk profiles say “half” the extension of the Monitor-Mind. Which isn't right and someone needs to fix that. Zillo should just be a “Monitor” not “a normal” since she and Mandrakk were part of the species of Monitors. Mandrakk being the first doesn't change the fact he was one of them ie Dax Novu. Discount every bad side of dichotomy since that's more metaphorical to what he and Superman represent, not what they actually are.
Thought Robot wasn't half either. He was the result of the Split. Not he was that half while it happened.
Thought Robot wasn't half either. He was the result of the Split. Not he was that half while it happened.
Last edited:
- 24,976
- 26,824
Their Post Crisis profiles aren't.
- 2,151
- 2,107
I have no clue what you are talking about, the Monitors are defined as primal forms, which makes sense, while the Gods are concepts, the Monitors are Hyper-Gods, and thus, Hyper-concepts.
So nothing here is metaphorical. CAS and Mandrakk are the concepts of Good and the concepts of Bad.
So nothing here is metaphorical. CAS and Mandrakk are the concepts of Good and the concepts of Bad.
- 2,999
- 2,205
The primal form is talking about the Monitor's nature. The scan itself says that form and meaning here lose and surrender to the Overvoid. This means these “forms” really have no meaning and narratives twist and churn at any moment which they do not control. “Hyper-Concepts.”
Mandrakk died yet Evil didn't die. CAS died yet Good didn't die. It's also talked about in an interview and not the comics themselves. Rippling manifolds of concept predate both CAS and Mandrakk, not to mention the Probe saw “concepts” of heroes and villains, life and death, etc while mapping what the Flaw was.
So tell me how “are” they the very concept, if one, those concepts existed before them. Also, still exist without them? The scan itself makes perfect sense as Mandrakk grew stronger, so did CAS to oppose him. What it seems more so is that they represent every part of the duality, they are not the concept themselves. Overvoid and the Flaw relationship defines it better.
What Morrison said would be more akin to this: “If Mandrakk were Evil then Superman would be Good. They are two concepts representing and opposing each other.” Also, Grant mentions of multiple concepts. Black and White represent the opposite but in meaning have nothing to do with Good and Evil. He just points out that opposites are representative of opposite traits.
Last edited:
- 2,151
- 2,107
In the same manner that it is accepted that Darkseid is a form of evil, and dies. So this is moot
And eitherway, you are describing it like they are mere representatives of these concepts, even though it is stated that metaphors are real past the Orrery of Worlds, and it has been stated that the Monitor sphere is an archetypal world.
And eitherway, you are describing it like they are mere representatives of these concepts, even though it is stated that metaphors are real past the Orrery of Worlds, and it has been stated that the Monitor sphere is an archetypal world.
- 2,999
- 2,205
Yet, it proves the point. You're bringing up something obvious that you should have connected before just saying they are “Good and Evil” as opposed to representing concepts like the New Gods.
A metaphor is a metaphor which explains by comparing things in an analogous manner. So a metaphor being taken real would still be a comparison of something as such Grant's statement is more of a metaphor for how he describes Superman and Mandrakk. I'm using his words outside the comics not whatever convoluted logic of “metaphors are real” outside the Orrery is supposed to mean.
New Gods realms are archetypal yet the term is used and coined wrong within the comics. As you mentioned the New Gods represent concepts, like Darkseid, the God of evil, but they aren't the full personification of said concept. Let's use Zillo Valla as an example of mercy in primal form and as an “archetype.” Guess what she died and nothing happened.
- 3,304
- 3,108
- Thread starter
- #240
I added a “Crisis Cosmology” key and a “Vertigo Cosmology” key for the Presence in order to better distinguish the two interpretations, especially to avoid confusion with power scaling.
- Status
