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Crisis Cosmology: Scaling Characters

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I added a “Crisis Cosmology” key and a “Vertigo Cosmology” key for the Presence in order to better distinguish the two interpretations, especially to avoid confusion with power scaling.
Did you not add key on The Great Darkness profile too? Remembering The Great Darkness in continuity crisis is very different from continuity swamp thing.
 
I'm almost done with the edits. Here are the profiles I have edited so far:

Darkseid (Post-Flashpoint)

Kalibak

Highfather

Black Racer

Anti-Life Equation

Dream of the Endless

Orion (DC Comics)

Hecate (DC Comics)

The Upside-Down Man (DC Comics)

Mandrakk the Dark Monitor

The Thought Robot

The Monitors (DC Comics)

The Monitor

The World Forger

Anti-Monitor

The Ultra-Monitor

Perpetua

The Batman Who Laughs

Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)

Doctor Manhattan

The Presence

Let me know what you think, if there is anything that should be changed.
 

is neron not being affected by this revision?
 

is neron not being affected by this revision?
Didn't Neron show a lot of anti-feats for the Low 1-C rating?
 
There is no implication that Sandman Lucifer went to the Overvoid and DC Guidebooks aren't very reliable sources, some elements could be contradictory. The Void in Vertigo is not the same as the Overvoid.
Yeah i know, the void is only exist within the multiverse, beyond the void is darkness, beyond it is darkseid

Btw This is Acca4?
 
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This should be formatted as just <ref group="Note">Insert Dimensionality here</ref> at the end of the AP section and just make a new section below "Notes/Explanations"

This should be an example: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Flash_(Wally_West)_(Rebirth)
Okay I understand.
I'm almost done with the edits. Here are the profiles I have edited so far:

Darkseid (Post-Flashpoint)

Kalibak

Highfather

Black Racer

Anti-Life Equation

Dream of the Endless

Orion (DC Comics)

Hecate (DC Comics)

The Upside-Down Man (DC Comics)

Mandrakk the Dark Monitor

The Thought Robot

The Monitors (DC Comics)

The Monitor

The World Forger

Anti-Monitor

The Ultra-Monitor

Perpetua

The Batman Who Laughs

Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)

Doctor Manhattan

The Presence

Let me know what you think, if there is anything that should be changed.
What do you think
 
We also don't have a "swamp thing cosmology" so it likely shouldn't be split into keys.

Arguably presence could stay unsplit as well since he scales to both cosmologies.
I would prefer to keep The Presence divided because if someone upgrade, for example, Lucifer from Vertigo to The Presence from the Crisis Cosmology it would create confusion because the two interpretations of the Presence are not necessarily written in the same way. For example, in Vertigo, the Source and the Presence are implied to be two distinct entities since Lucifer encountered the Source and looked at it nonchalantly, while in Scott Snyder's stories, the Presence and the Source are the same thing. This is just an example.
 
I think we should create completely separate profiles for Presence. Three profiles for three cosmologies.
I don't think it would be necessary to create three profiles for the same character based on three interpretations of DC Cosmology, just adding keys to the Presence profile would be enough in my opinion.
 
I don't think it would be necessary to create three profiles for the same character based on three interpretations of DC Cosmology, just adding keys to the Presence profile would be enough in my opinion.
So how about creating three separate profiles on a single page?
 
I would prefer to keep The Presence divided because if someone upgrade, for example, Lucifer from Vertigo to The Presence from the Crisis Cosmology it would create confusion because the two interpretations of the Presence are not necessarily written in the same way. For example, in Vertigo, the Source and the Presence are implied to be two distinct entities since Lucifer encountered the Source and looked at it nonchalantly, while in Scott Snyder's stories, the Presence and the Source are the same thing. This is just an example.
Ignoring him doesn't make lucifer stronger, lucifer is an arrogant character.
Moreover, Vertigo's version of Yahweh is not the only creator, there are creations that existed before his creation, destiny also says that he existed before the first god existed.
 
Ignoring him doesn't make lucifer stronger, lucifer is an arrogant character.
Moreover, Vertigo's version of Yahweh is not the only creator, there are creations that existed before his creation, destiny also says that he existed before the first god existed.
Not considering something does not create awareness of power, like being older than a thing or person. But in real terms, Lucifer can destroy all of creation and do so without any difficulty.
 
Not considering something does not create awareness of power, like being older than a thing or person. But in real terms, Lucifer can destroy all of creation and do so without any difficulty.
Yaeh yahweh and his creation, yahweh and lucifer isnt supreme beings in vertigo verse.
When discussing creation, outside of Yahweh's domain there are other creations with different creator gods, meaning they are in the sphere of the gods.
The word "creation" depends on the context. He can indeed destroy all creation, but the creation he means is only Yanweh's creation and his creation
 
Ignoring him doesn't make lucifer stronger, lucifer is an arrogant character.
Moreover, Vertigo's version of Yahweh is not the only creator, there are creations that existed before his creation, destiny also says that he existed before the first god existed.
Time in the Void is meaningless thus asking what comes first is pointless. Humans dreamed of him making the “beginning” meaning there were no concepts to predate him.
 
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Yaeh yahweh and his creation, yahweh and lucifer isnt supreme beings in vertigo verse.
When discussing creation, outside of Yahweh's domain there are other creations with different creator gods, meaning they are in the sphere of the gods.
The word "creation" depends on the context. He can indeed destroy all creation, but the creation he means is only Yanweh's creation and his creation
He is Supreme and the idea is highlighted within #75 on the final series.
 
Yaeh yahweh and his creation, yahweh and lucifer isnt supreme beings in vertigo verse.
When discussing creation, outside of Yahweh's domain there are other creations with different creator gods, meaning they are in the sphere of the gods.
The word "creation" depends on the context. He can indeed destroy all creation, but the creation he means is only Yanweh's creation and his creation
The logic of Vertigo is the same as what you call the Greater Omniverse. There is void and with it there is the infinite omniverse/creation. Creation is not a sphere, yes there are other creators, but its Non-Form state is the divine unity above everything else.
 
Time in the Void is meaningless thus asking what comes first is pointless. Humans dreamed of him making the “beginning” meaning there were no concepts to predate him.
That's not an unhelpful statement, gods and angels also existed before time existed, distance and time are just illusions in the realm of pain
It is natural that time is meaningless, the sphere of the gods is a realm beyond the concepts of space and time
 
That's not an unhelpful statement, gods and angels also existed before time existed, distance and time are just illusions in the realm of pain
It is natural that time is meaningless, the sphere of the gods is a realm beyond the concepts of space and time
Obviously, however, the scale is different. The Void contains infinite Creations all with realms beyond time and all those Creations scaling to 0 to just a portion of the Void, no matter how many Creations you endlessly stack to it. The volume and mass of the Void are unqualifiable by any notion of space, time, distance, etc…

However, beings can predate Heaven, the Void they cannot, and not when the beginning was shaped to only house one being. Yahweh predates Lucifer and Michael who predates Creation and the Void predates all versions of Creation alongside Night and Time. Something like Heaven or Hell doesn't.
 
The logic of Vertigo is the same as what you call the Greater Omniverse. There is void and with it there is the infinite omniverse/creation. Creation is not a sphere, yes there are other creators, but its Non-Form state is the divine unity above everything else.
That void is a void outside the sphere of the gods, beyond it is darkness and beyond that is darkseid.
After all, that layer was only in the sphere of the gods
He is Supreme and the idea is highlighted within #75 on the final series.
External force? Do you think eternal and infinite are absolute? His plans didn't even reach the void, even in the realms of other gods, his plans didn't touch the domains of other gods
 
External force? Do you think eternal and infinite are absolute? His plans didn't even reach the void, even in the realms of other gods, his plans didn't touch the domains of other gods
External forces are human imagination. Yahweh literally explained this in the story. He didn't pick to be God nor did he create Lucifer to be the Devil, they were made like that by humans despite humans being ants to them. This is what Yahweh meant by “you can not be your own maker, none of us can” and Mike Carey explains that external forces are just dreams of the sentient beings because we make our gods in our image. Which gave God a face and in this case “Yahweh.”

The Plan literally outlines Creation. It's the script of how Creation would run. This has been made very clear within the story. Predestination and the Plan are not one and one.
 
That void is a void outside the sphere of the gods, beyond it is darkness and beyond that is darkseid.
After all, that layer was only in the sphere of the gods
The gap in the Lucifer series is completely beyond the darkness-light definitions you mean. It is an infinite nothingness outside of everything. And possibly a (non-form) part of Yahweh.
 
Namun yang jelas, skalanya berbeda. Kehampaan berisi Ciptaan tak terhingga yang semuanya memiliki alam melampaui waktu dan semua Ciptaan tersebut berskala 0 hingga hanya sebagian dari Kekosongan, tidak peduli berapa banyak Ciptaan yang Anda susun tanpa henti ke dalamnya. Volume dan massa Ruang Hampa tidak dapat dikualifikasikan oleh gagasan apa pun tentang ruang, waktu, jarak, dll…

Namun, makhluk bisa mendahului Surga, sedangkan Void tidak bisa, dan tidak ketika permulaannya dibentuk untuk hanya menampung satu makhluk. Yahweh mendahului Lucifer dan Michael yang mendahului Penciptaan dan Kekosongan mendahului semua versi Penciptaan selain Malam dan Waktu. Sesuatu seperti Surga atau Neraka tidak.
Yes, even the form of The Endless was initially formless and then humans formed its physical form. Yahweh is not omnipotent, that's all.
He is not absolute, he is not the creator of all creation.

Different from crisis cosmology, presence has 2 versions, aspect and original form, aspect is within the multiverse, original form is outside the multiverse/overvoid.
 
Yes, even the form of The Endless was initially formless and then humans formed its physical form. Yahweh is not omnipotent, that's all.
He is not absolute, he is not the creator of all creation.
What does giving something shape have to take away from the status of absolute? Yahweh chose to let humans do that. He literally states he can just make Creation from the beginning of time so that no logic of anyone or anything exists.

Yahweh is the God of the Covenant for one Creation, sure. However, it was made clear that he was the monotheistic God and that he contained the Void which contains all other Creation including all their creators. Nothing says Yahweh is limited to one Creation as the Silkman can feed off Creations and the Silkman is nothing next to Death < Lucifer < Yahweh.
Different from crisis cosmology, presence has 2 versions, aspect and original form, aspect is within the multiverse, the original form is outside the multiverse/overvoid.
No? Lucifer literally mentions that Yahweh has hidden behind shapes. Yahweh even when talking to Elaine must take form. In the War of Heaven, God literally says “this is the aspect through which I act.”
 
The gap in the Lucifer series is completely beyond the darkness-light definitions you mean. It is an infinite nothingness outside of everything. And possibly a (non-form) part of Yahweh.
Light and darkness are ordinary concepts, such duality is normal in the concept of gods

If you think Lucifer is a concept of absolute darkness, then that's wrong. He even feels the void yama as something familiar, meaning that it is not an absolute concept but he was formed as a supporter of the concept of duality and that cm2 because he is immortal with that concept
 
What does giving something shape have to take away from the status of absolute? Yahweh chose to let humans do that. He literally states he can just make Creation from the beginning of time so that no logic of anyone or anything exists.

Yahweh is the God of the Covenant for one Creation, sure. However, it was made clear that he was the monotheistic God and that he contained the Void which contains all other Creation including all their creators. Nothing says Yahweh is limited to one Creation as the Silkman can feed off Creations and the Silkman is nothing next to Death < Lucifer < Yahweh.

No? Lucifer literally mentions that Yahweh has hidden behind shapes. Yahweh even when talking to Elaine must take form. In the War of Heaven, God literally says “this is the aspect through which I act.”
No one is safe from death, including yahweh and lucifer. Most Lucifer fans think that Lucifer cannot be claimed by death, even though death can be canceled if there is hope, death does not kill people by slashing.
Aren't we shown that there is nothing left of the universe? death is the final concept in the universe.
Everything dies except death.
 
Light and darkness are ordinary concepts, such duality is normal in the concept of gods

If you think Lucifer is a concept of absolute darkness, then that's wrong. He even feels the void yama as something familiar, meaning that it is not an absolute concept but he was formed as a supporter of the concept of duality and that cm2 because he is immortal with that concept
What I'm trying to say is that every concept is unimportant for Void.

I'm commenting by separating Vertigo and Black Label, please stop giving examples other than the series or this cosmology. Nothing is real except Lucifer and Michael, and they are beings who trivialize every concept, but they are all insignificant next to Yahweh.

Lucifer clearly has CM1.
 
No one is safe from death, including yahweh and lucifer.
Lucifer Vol.1 disproves of this.
Most Lucifer fans think that Lucifer cannot be claimed by death, even though death can be canceled if there is hope, death does not kill people by slashing.
Death, herself, agreed that she couldn't. This means only Yahweh has a say in Lucifer's fate.
Aren't we shown that there is nothing left of the universe? death is the final concept in the universe.
Everything dies except death.
The Demiurgic brothers and their father made the Universe and aren't bound to it. Unlike, the Endless, they are not a detereminsitc approach to Creation making because they did that process.
 
Lucifer Vol.1 disproves of this.

Death, herself, agreed that she couldn't. This means only Yahweh has a say in Lucifer's fate.

The Demiurgic brothers and their father made the Universe and aren't bound to it. Unlike, the Endless, they are not a detereminsitc approach to Creation making because they did that process.
I told you, no one is safe from death, they only slow it down by making their own rules, but at the end of everything, nothing cannot die, even concepts die.
Someone who cannot be claimed is someone who can escape death, because there is still hope for life
[Lucifer know it #75]
[No one exist in end of everything except death]
[More]
[Even the concept]
Where is lucifer? he died, where is the gods? They all died
 
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