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Did you not add key on The Great Darkness profile too? Remembering The Great Darkness in continuity crisis is very different from continuity swamp thing.
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Crisis Cosmology: Scaling Characters
- Thread starter Elizio33
- Start date
- Status
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- Thread starter
- #242
Not yet.
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Well, I'm just confused as to why he also doesn't have a key like what's in profile The Presence.
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I'm almost done with the edits. Here are the profiles I have edited so far:
Darkseid (Post-Flashpoint)
Kalibak
Highfather
Black Racer
Anti-Life Equation
Dream of the Endless
Orion (DC Comics)
Hecate (DC Comics)
The Upside-Down Man (DC Comics)
Mandrakk the Dark Monitor
The Thought Robot
The Monitors (DC Comics)
The Monitor
The World Forger
Anti-Monitor
The Ultra-Monitor
Perpetua
The Batman Who Laughs
Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)
Doctor Manhattan
The Presence
Let me know what you think, if there is anything that should be changed.
Darkseid (Post-Flashpoint)
Kalibak
Highfather
Black Racer
Anti-Life Equation
Dream of the Endless
Orion (DC Comics)
Hecate (DC Comics)
The Upside-Down Man (DC Comics)
Mandrakk the Dark Monitor
The Thought Robot
The Monitors (DC Comics)
The Monitor
The World Forger
Anti-Monitor
The Ultra-Monitor
Perpetua
The Batman Who Laughs
Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)
Doctor Manhattan
The Presence
Let me know what you think, if there is anything that should be changed.
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He will.
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Neron (Pre-Flashpoint)
Neron is a powerful Demon King who has been making deals with various heroes and supervillains to give them something they want in exchange for their souls. He has been an enemy of The Spectre, Deadman, the Justice League, and other magical beings until he was defeated by Lord Satanus and Blaze...
vsbattles.fandom.com
is neron not being affected by this revision?
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Didn't Neron show a lot of anti-feats for the Low 1-C rating?Neron (Pre-Flashpoint)
Neron is a powerful Demon King who has been making deals with various heroes and supervillains to give them something they want in exchange for their souls. He has been an enemy of The Spectre, Deadman, the Justice League, and other magical beings until he was defeated by Lord Satanus and Blaze...
is neron not being affected by this revision?
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When do we apply dc1A cosmology?
Infinite higher dimension cannot be refuted, if anyone wants to refute, come to my thread.
We talk
Btw Sandman Multiverse is also part of the Overvoid, but in different omniverse/greater multiverse.
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I'd guess the Fifth Dimension should be 1-A in the new Tiering System, most likely.
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The Overvoid isn't a thing in Vertigo.
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There is no implication that Sandman Lucifer went to the Overvoid and DC Guidebooks aren't very reliable sources, some elements could be contradictory. The Void in Vertigo is not the same as the Overvoid.
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Yeah i know, the void is only exist within the multiverse, beyond the void is darkness, beyond it is darkseid
Btw This is Acca4?
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This should be formatted as just <ref group="Note">Insert Dimensionality here</ref> at the end of the AP section and just make a new section below "Notes/Explanations" and <references group="Note"/>
This should be an example: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Flash_(Wally_West)_(Rebirth)
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We also don't have a "swamp thing cosmology" so it likely shouldn't be split into keys.
Arguably presence could stay unsplit as well since he scales to both cosmologies.
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I would prefer to keep The Presence divided because if someone upgrade, for example, Lucifer from Vertigo to The Presence from the Crisis Cosmology it would create confusion because the two interpretations of the Presence are not necessarily written in the same way. For example, in Vertigo, the Source and the Presence are implied to be two distinct entities since Lucifer encountered the Source and looked at it nonchalantly, while in Scott Snyder's stories, the Presence and the Source are the same thing. This is just an example.
Deleted member 30746
Guest
I think we should create completely separate profiles for Presence. Three profiles for three cosmologies.
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I don't think it would be necessary to create three profiles for the same character based on three interpretations of DC Cosmology, just adding keys to the Presence profile would be enough in my opinion.
Deleted member 30746
Guest
So how about creating three separate profiles on a single page?
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Ignoring him doesn't make lucifer stronger, lucifer is an arrogant character.
Moreover, Vertigo's version of Yahweh is not the only creator, there are creations that existed before his creation, destiny also says that he existed before the first god existed.
Deleted member 30746
Guest
Not considering something does not create awareness of power, like being older than a thing or person. But in real terms, Lucifer can destroy all of creation and do so without any difficulty.
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Yaeh yahweh and his creation, yahweh and lucifer isnt supreme beings in vertigo verse.
When discussing creation, outside of Yahweh's domain there are other creations with different creator gods, meaning they are in the sphere of the gods.
The word "creation" depends on the context. He can indeed destroy all creation, but the creation he means is only Yanweh's creation and his creation
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Time in the Void is meaningless thus asking what comes first is pointless. Humans dreamed of him making the “beginning” meaning there were no concepts to predate him.
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He is Supreme and the idea is highlighted within #75 on the final series.
Deleted member 30746
Guest
The logic of Vertigo is the same as what you call the Greater Omniverse. There is void and with it there is the infinite omniverse/creation. Creation is not a sphere, yes there are other creators, but its Non-Form state is the divine unity above everything else.
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That's not an unhelpful statement, gods and angels also existed before time existed, distance and time are just illusions in the realm of pain
It is natural that time is meaningless, the sphere of the gods is a realm beyond the concepts of space and time
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Obviously, however, the scale is different. The Void contains infinite Creations all with realms beyond time and all those Creations scaling to 0 to just a portion of the Void, no matter how many Creations you endlessly stack to it. The volume and mass of the Void are unqualifiable by any notion of space, time, distance, etc…
However, beings can predate Heaven, the Void they cannot, and not when the beginning was shaped to only house one being. Yahweh predates Lucifer and Michael who predates Creation and the Void predates all versions of Creation alongside Night and Time. Something like Heaven or Hell doesn't.
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That void is a void outside the sphere of the gods, beyond it is darkness and beyond that is darkseid.
After all, that layer was only in the sphere of the gods
External force? Do you think eternal and infinite are absolute? His plans didn't even reach the void, even in the realms of other gods, his plans didn't touch the domains of other gods
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External forces are human imagination. Yahweh literally explained this in the story. He didn't pick to be God nor did he create Lucifer to be the Devil, they were made like that by humans despite humans being ants to them. This is what Yahweh meant by “you can not be your own maker, none of us can” and Mike Carey explains that external forces are just dreams of the sentient beings because we make our gods in our image. Which gave God a face and in this case “Yahweh.”
The Plan literally outlines Creation. It's the script of how Creation would run. This has been made very clear within the story. Predestination and the Plan are not one and one.
Deleted member 30746
Guest
The gap in the Lucifer series is completely beyond the darkness-light definitions you mean. It is an infinite nothingness outside of everything. And possibly a (non-form) part of Yahweh.
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Yes, even the form of The Endless was initially formless and then humans formed its physical form. Yahweh is not omnipotent, that's all.
He is not absolute, he is not the creator of all creation.
Different from crisis cosmology, presence has 2 versions, aspect and original form, aspect is within the multiverse, original form is outside the multiverse/overvoid.
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What does giving something shape have to take away from the status of absolute? Yahweh chose to let humans do that. He literally states he can just make Creation from the beginning of time so that no logic of anyone or anything exists.
Yahweh is the God of the Covenant for one Creation, sure. However, it was made clear that he was the monotheistic God and that he contained the Void which contains all other Creation including all their creators. Nothing says Yahweh is limited to one Creation as the Silkman can feed off Creations and the Silkman is nothing next to Death < Lucifer < Yahweh.
No? Lucifer literally mentions that Yahweh has hidden behind shapes. Yahweh even when talking to Elaine must take form. In the War of Heaven, God literally says “this is the aspect through which I act.”
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Light and darkness are ordinary concepts, such duality is normal in the concept of gods
If you think Lucifer is a concept of absolute darkness, then that's wrong. He even feels the void yama as something familiar, meaning that it is not an absolute concept but he was formed as a supporter of the concept of duality and that cm2 because he is immortal with that concept
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No one is safe from death, including yahweh and lucifer. Most Lucifer fans think that Lucifer cannot be claimed by death, even though death can be canceled if there is hope, death does not kill people by slashing.
Aren't we shown that there is nothing left of the universe? death is the final concept in the universe.
Everything dies except death.
Deleted member 30746
Guest
What I'm trying to say is that every concept is unimportant for Void.
I'm commenting by separating Vertigo and Black Label, please stop giving examples other than the series or this cosmology. Nothing is real except Lucifer and Michael, and they are beings who trivialize every concept, but they are all insignificant next to Yahweh.
Lucifer clearly has CM1.
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Lucifer Vol.1 disproves of this.
Death, herself, agreed that she couldn't. This means only Yahweh has a say in Lucifer's fate.
The Demiurgic brothers and their father made the Universe and aren't bound to it. Unlike, the Endless, they are not a detereminsitc approach to Creation making because they did that process.
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I told you, no one is safe from death, they only slow it down by making their own rules, but at the end of everything, nothing cannot die, even concepts die.
Someone who cannot be claimed is someone who can escape death, because there is still hope for life
[Lucifer know it #75]
[No one exist in end of everything except death]
[More]
[Even the concept]
Where is lucifer? he died, where is the gods? They all died
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