BM Minato should be Relativisitic+

[MinatoSparkle]

Minato in Base is faster than Tobirama who was stated to be the fastest shinobi of his time which includes Madara who is 28% the SoL as an edo.

So since BM Naruto scales to Edo Madara and Minato got a comparable buff, that'd be 0.28+ SoL (Minato>Madara) + 0.28- SoL (part of BM Naruto's speed is his own speed, but he's only Massively Hypersonic+ in Base, so that's not enough to make up the difference) = ~0.56 SoL = Relativistic+

So yeah, BM Minato should be Relativistic+, and that'd probably apply to BSM Naruto, SM EMS Sasuke, and Juubito.

 

[KingTempest]

Minato's Shunshin is faster, not his combat speed.

And you're not supposed to have multiple CRTs open for a single verse.

 

[LordTracer]

Edo Tobirama blitzed KCM2 Minato, gg

And like Tempest said, Tobirama only stated that Minato is better at teleportation than him. That does not mean he’s faster. Also nothing you said warrants Relativistic+, that’s just not how it works.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Minato's Shunshin is faster, not his combat speed.

And you're not supposed to have multiple CRTs open for a single verse.

He also threw kunai around the battlefield so fast that Tobirama had to confirm if Minato did, then he commented that he also strikes really fast.

Huh? Is that a rule?

Edo Tobirama blitzed KCM2 Minato, gg

And like Tempest said, Tobirama only stated that Minato is better at teleportation than him. That does not mean he’s faster. Also nothing you said warrants Relativistic+, that’s just not how it works.

Yes, just ignore the context that Minato wasn't in top form considering he found out Obito was Madara. The databook even refers to this as Minato's daze. Later when he wasn't dazed anymore he could react to TSO and had swung his arm from 180 degrees to 90 degrees at Juubidara before it got cut off even when just in SM and when Juubidara could forecast his strike since Minato threw his kunai right in front of him.

Why does that not warrant Relativistic+? It's just basic addition. If someone who is faster than someone 28% the SoL normally gets a buff that increases your speed by about 28% the SoL, that's over 50% the SoL. How is that not how it works?

 

[KingTempest]

He also threw kunai around the battlefield so fast that Tobirama had to confirm if Minato did, then he commented that he also strikes really fast.

No.

He used Shunshin to travel far distances and he placed Kunai there, simple.

Huh? Is that a rule?

Yes

 

[M3X_2.0]

But why Relativistic+, exactly?

 

[LordTracer]

Why does that not warrant Relativistic+? It's just basic addition. If someone who is faster than someone 28% the SoL normally gets a buff that increases your speed by about 28% the SoL, that's over 50% the SoL. How is that not how it works?

You straight-up aren’t allowed to assume amps like that.

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, just ignore the context that Minato wasn't in top form considering he found out Obito was Madara. The databook even refers to this as Minato's daze. Later when he wasn't dazed anymore he could react to TSO and had swung his arm from 180 degrees to 90 degrees at Juubidara before it got cut off even when just in SM and when Juubidara could forecast his strike since Minato threw his kunai right in front of him.

Yeah I don’t see how any of this changes the fact that he got blitzed by Tobirama. Especially when Minato supposedly being faster than him in base was already debunked. To make matters even worse for Minato, his attacks could be reacted to by a teenage Obito, an Obito much slower than the one during the War Arc, who could keep up with KCM2 Naruto, who also got blitzed by Edo Tobirama. Edo Tobirama could also react to Sage Madara, who is > Alive Madara, who is > Edo Madara, who can keep up with KCM2.

So yeah, all the feats are in favor of Tobirama being faster.

 

[KingTempest]

Stop scaling to projectiles.

Rock Lee threw a kunai faster than 8 Gates Guy can run. We're not making Rock Lee FTL cause of it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No.

He used Shunshin to travel far distances and he placed Kunai there, simple.

Yes

So my bad, it was actually Hiruzen that asked, but Tobirama only saying he's quick at striking afterwards implies he didn't see it while it was happening.

But why tho

But why Relativistic+, exactly?

Because 50-100% the SoL is Relativisitc+.

You straight-up aren’t allowed to assume amps like that.

It's not an assumption. Base Naruto is Massively Hypersonic+. BM Naruto is Relativistic. That's an objective, clear amp. If you wanna say that's not linear and is instead some sort of multiplier, that works even better in Minato's favor. So whether you lowball or highball it's objectively at least a Relativistic amp.

Yeah I don’t see how any of this changes the fact that he got blitzed by Tobirama. Especially when Minato supposedly being faster than him in base was already debunked. To make matters even worse for Minato, his attacks could be reacted to by a teenage Obito, an Obito much slower than the one during the War Arc, who could keep up with KCM2 Naruto, who also got blitzed by Edo Tobirama. Edo Tobirama could also react to Sage Madara, who is > Alive Madara, who is > Edo Madara, who can keep up with KCM2.

So yeah, all the feats are in favor of Tobirama being faster.

How do you- what? I just explained that it's because he was in a daze. And when was Base Minato>Tobirama debunked? Also no his attacks couldn't be reacted to by Obito. That was pretty clearly shown. The only time he could was when Minato swung around to slash at Obito on the monument, and Obito had time to see Minato swing around and was also likely prepared for Minato to attack when he touched him. Then he got FTG lv 2d, and had his arm cut off and the contract removed before he even realized what was happening. Also when did Tobirama blitz kcm2 Naruto? Naruto was in mastered kcm1 for the part of the fight when Tobirama was involved. Also being faster than kcm2 doesn't mean you're faster than Minato.

No...they really aren't.

Stop scaling to projectiles.

Rock Lee threw a kunai faster than 8 Gates Guy can run. We're not making Rock Lee FTL cause of it.

He could see it starting to happen from far away and had plenty of time to throw his kunai. Also War arc Lee is honestly really impressive. (admittedly with an amp) He could blitz and kick through Edo Madara. Still, it's very different from Minato precisely jumping to the TSO and teleporting away the exact instant they touched his jacket and not a moment later or sooner. It's like throwing a ball into an extremely fast moving hoop by watching its movements for a little then getting into the flow of the rhythm and getting it with maybe a little bit of luck versus getting it in as soon as you see it.

 

[KingTempest]

So my bad, it was actually Hiruzen that asked, but Tobirama only saying he's quick at striking afterwards implies he didn't see it while it was happening.

His "striking" and "combat speed" are contexual, and as long as it didn't say "he's quicker at fighting than me", it doesn't apply.

But why tho

https://vsbattles.com/threads/we-are-allowing-new-content-revision-threads-again.107916/

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Why would he say he's quicker at fighting when they weren't fighting? Striking speed is pretty much combat speed said in a less nerdy, more fitting for a story way of showing superiority.

I see. The wording is kinda confusing. It says "staff members should use their discretion regarding which threads that are most qualified to close." Does that mean all but one have to be deleted, or some irrelevant ones can be closed and multiple can still stay open?

 

[LordTracer]

It's not an assumption. Base Naruto is Massively Hypersonic+. BM Naruto is Relativistic. That's an objective, clear amp. If you wanna say that's not linear and is instead some sort of multiplier, that works even better in Minato's favor. So whether you lowball or highball it's objectively at least a Relativistic amp.

Show me where these numbers are stated in the manga and we’ll have a discussion. Otherwise, you aren’t allowed to make up amps like this. If you want otherwise, you can make a CRT to change the site standards.

And when was Base Minato>Tobirama debunked? Also no his attacks couldn't be reacted to by Obito

Tempest already did it, Minato is only stated to be better at teleporting.

Also no his attacks couldn't be reacted to by Obito.

Uh huh.

The only time he could was when Minato swung around to slash at Obito on the monument, and Obito had time to see Minato swing around and was also likely prepared for Minato to attack when he touched him.

I hope you realize that you essentially just conceded that Obito was able to react to Minato’s speed.

Also when did Tobirama blitz kcm2 Naruto? Naruto was in mastered kcm1 for the part of the fight when Tobirama was involved. Also being faster than kcm2 doesn't mean you're faster than Minato.

I already gave the scan for Tobirama being faster than KCM2. I have seen no feats suggesting Minato is faster than, or even comparable to KCM2, and considering that you conceded that teenage Obito is capable of reacting to Minato, that shows that KCM2 is in fact faster than Minato.

Also a certain someone slower than Tobirama (the Fourth Raikage) was stated to equal Minato’s speed both in the manga and the databook.

 

[KingTempest]

Why would he say he's quicker at fighting when they weren't fighting? Striking speed is pretty much combat speed said in a less nerdy, more fitting for a story way of showing superiority.

He never said quicker, and he never said fighting.
Another translation.

I see. The wording is kinda confusing. It says "staff members should use their discretion regarding which threads that are most qualified to close." Does that mean all but one have to be deleted, or some irrelevant ones can be closed and multiple can still stay open?

The most serious threads take priority. I'm surprised all these threads have even been opened.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

The most serious threads take priority. I'm surprised all these threads have even been opened.

Lack of awareness maybe or they just jumped into this forum without ever reading the rules from the old forum.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Here we go again....

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Lack of awareness maybe or they just jumped into this forum without ever reading the rules from the old forum.

I'm not here to actually discuss anything—I've never touched Naruto in my life—but, I just wanted to point out that it stated that "[the rules] will be in effect until things seem to sufficiently calm down", and I'm certain things have calmed down since October of last year.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I'm not here to actually discuss anything—I've never touched Naruto in my life—but, I just wanted to point out that it stated that "[the rules] will be in effect until things seem to sufficiently calm down", and I'm certain things have calmed down since October of last year.

Yes that's regularly for 2 or 3 CRTs only but Naruto has more than that with most being forgotten because new ones keep popping out with the first few not being finished.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yes that's regularly for 2 or 3 CRTs only but Naruto has more than that with most being forgotten because new ones keep popping out with the first few not being finished.

The most important CRT can't even be finished in the first place because of a Certain Water Manipulation CRT.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Show me where these numbers are stated in the manga and we’ll have a discussion. Otherwise, you aren’t allowed to make up amps like this. If you want otherwise, you can make a CRT to change the site standards.

Tempest already did it, Minato is only stated to be better at teleporting.

Uh huh.

I hope you realize that you essentially just conceded that Obito was able to react to Minato’s speed.

I already gave the scan for Tobirama being faster than KCM2. I have seen no feats suggesting Minato is faster than, or even comparable to KCM2, and considering that you conceded that teenage Obito is capable of reacting to Minato, that shows that KCM2 is in fact faster than Minato.

Also a certain someone slower than Tobirama (the Fourth Raikage) was stated to equal Minato’s speed both in the manga and the databook.

These are stats from the wiki. You make a crt to change the speeds if you don't think it's true.

Link?

Obito was never able to react to Minato without a heavy heavy advantage and being highly alert. Even when he later said he needed to keep his guard up he just got stabbed. If you think that means Obito can normally react to Minato's speed, then be my guest but you are wrong. Also don't sleep on Obito's speed. He casually reacted to an Ay blitz and saved Sasuke from the particle style.

No that was masterced kcm1. This is that form

It's the light cloak from kcm1 but with the collar from kcm1.
This is kcm2.

Very clear difference, and the Naruto in the scan you showed is mkcm.

Btw even if Obito was able to react to Minato which he obviously isn't if you actually pay attention to what I said and showed, why does that mean kcm2 is faster than Minato? When did kcm2 Naruto ever catch Obito? Yes it was Rinnegan Obito, but Obito was only ever caught by Minato and the team that included Kakashi, who has the only ability that can counter kamui.

No...Ay specifically said after Minato died he was the fastest shinobi. He was hyping Minato up to be better than him all the time. The only implication in the manga they were equal was cee's statement, and he's a far less reliable source than Ay himself who actually fought Minato many times and is not humble at all.

He never said quicker, and he never said fighting.
Another translation.

The most serious threads take priority. I'm surprised all these threads have even been opened.

He didn't say it directly, but it's good implication. Also the link doesn't work.

This is a serious thread. Just because you disagree with my assessment doesn't mean it's not a serious thread.

The most important CRT can't even be finished in the first place because of a Certain Water Manipulation CRT.

What mater manip thread?

 

[Planck69]

KingTempest makes more sense to me. I disagree for now.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There's a CRT going right now for making water by Manipulating Electeons or some bullshit.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Tobirama is lowkey > Edo Madara.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

KingTempest makes more sense to me. I disagree for now.

Sigh. Don't really get why. Minato always had hype and showings to be the fastest Hokage other than when he was dazed, but ok.

There's a CRT going right now for making water by Manipulating Electeons or some bullshit.

Is that related to Naruto?

Tobirama is lowkey > Edo Madara.

In speed, but he'd still lose to him, same story with Alive Minato, arguably Edo Minato too

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's because of Kisame's Water Feat Calc mentioning something that doesn't make sense.

 

[KingTempest]

He didn't say it directly, but it's good implication.

Good headcanon yeah

Also the link doesn't work.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744687887475277824/836268676084531220/naruto_631_9.png

This is a serious thread. Just because you disagree with my assessment doesn't mean it's not a serious thread.

You're mistaking "serious thread" with "threads I care about".

A serious thread is a verse wide AP revision or a thread that requires a staff discussion.
This is a thread to upgrade one character which doesn't scale to anybody. This is not a serious thread.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Good headcanon yeah

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744687887475277824/836268676084531220/naruto_631_9.png

You're mistaking "serious thread" with "threads I care about".

A serious thread is a verse wide AP revision or a thread that requires a staff discussion.
This is a thread to upgrade one character which doesn't scale to anybody. This is not a serious thread.

It definitely doesn't imply Tobirama is faster than Minato.

Alright, but that translation isn't necessarily the right one. In my official 3 in 1 book collection, it also says you're quick to strike. Though I guess we'd need a Japanese translator to say for sure.

I already mentioned it scales to BSM Naruto SM EMS Sasuke and Juubito, and any other characters that are relative/superior to Minato in speed but are not FTL.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

In speed, but he'd still lose to him, same story with Alive Minato, arguably Edo Minato too

Nah, he just blitzes.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I was thinking about something recently. You know how you talked about Tobirama blitzing dazed BM Minato when he tried to get the ball and he just got it and teleported back to Juubito? Well that was movement speed since he didn't have a mark on Minato yet, and Base Minato has been shown to have much greater movement speed, so since that's one of Tobirama's best showings there's more proof that Base Minato's speed in a good mindset>Tobirama

Nah, he just blitzes.

Explains why he never beat Madara

 

[LordTracer]

Base Minato has been shown to have much greater movement speed

Based on what?

 

[KingTempest]

I was thinking about something recently. You know how you talked about Tobirama blitzing dazed BM Minato when he tried to get the ball and he just got it and teleported back to Juubito? Well that was movement speed since he didn't have a mark on Minato yet, and Base Minato has been shown to have much greater movement speed, so since that's one of Tobirama's best showings there's more proof that Base Minato's speed in a good mindset>Tobirama

Can you prove it wasn't shunshin, which he consistently spams?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Based on what?

Getting to the battlefield before Tobirama even though he had to make a detour to the sea and had a conversation before Tobirama arrived.

Can you prove it wasn't shunshin, which he consistently spams?

I'm saying it is shunshin. Shunshin is literally movement speed. Minato has faster shunshin, that's what I mean.

And if you meant FTG and you named it wrong, I'm saying he couldn't because he didn't have a mark anywhere near. He placed a mark on Minato just after this to do the FTG reciprocal round robin.

 

[LordTracer]

That is not the official translation. This is.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That is not the official translation. This is.

No it's not. Shunshin is often mistranslated as teleportation. The same is true with kcm Naruto. His movement has been called teleporting before.

So does Naruto have FTG now?

And plus even if that translation was right, it doesn't change the fact that Minato did run to the battlefield faster than Tobirama. It's not like Minato had a mark at the battlefield.

 

[LordTracer]

No it's not.

Yes, actually, it is. The translation I just gave is from Viz, which is accepted as the most official translation. What you gave is a fan translation.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Could just ask Qilqhoth or another one of the translators to translate the japanese to see what it says.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes, actually, it is. The translation I just gave is from Viz, which is accepted as the most official translation. What you gave is a fan translation.

"And plus even if that translation was right, it doesn't change the fact that Minato did run to the battlefield faster than Tobirama. It's not like Minato had a mark at the battlefield." Also why does it make sense for Tobirama to comment that Minato was good at FTG when he didn't even use it? Also the DBZ english dub is "official," it also says instant transmission is the speed of light.

Could just ask Qilqhoth or another one of the translators to translate the japanese to see what it says.

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Here.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Here.

Honestly just looking at this frame looks like it's talking about shunshin since he's just finished running to the battlefield as he says it. But I guess getting a translation would be cool.