Tsk. Shouldn't have made that promise.
You never go back on your word cause that's your scaledo, your scaling way
This is all well and good, but there's a very important thing you're forgetting. Kurama Mode just does not work like that.
You see Bijuu Mode is not really 'Jinchuriki + Bijuu' or 'Jinchuriki's base amped by Bijuu chakra added on top of it'.
It's more like '
Jinchuriki replacing their chakra with that of the Bijuu's'. The Jinchuriki shelves their own chakra away, and transform into their Bijuu in a pseudo-literal sense. Their chakra gets replaced with that of the Bijuu's. This mechanic has been set up fairly early on in the series, since we always knew they were
two separate chakra pools that
Jinchuriki can tap into. They've just been
repeatedly hammered home as separate.
Yeah nah KCM isn't the same as Kurama Mode. With KCM he hasn't truly mastered Kurama and they're separate, whereas
their chakra is merged in Kurama Mode. The databook refers to it as
Naruto and Kurama's power.
九喇嘛とナルトが心を通わせ、全力を解放した、“九尾チャクラモード"の完成型!
This is the perfect version of the "Kyuubi Chakra Mode," in which Kurama and Naruto communicate with each other and unleash their full power!
Also Naruto using BSM, which by your argument would be Kurama's chakra on its own plus Sage Mode, beat Toneri, and I don't think Toneri being like 2x stronger than WA BSM Naruto is particularly consistent.
Won't get into Ten Tails Jinchuriki (or even pseudo Ten Tails Jinchuriki) because they're kinda different and have different mechanics. But basic Bijuu Mode works like I mentioned above. So yes, them having the same amount of chakra means they would be equal, provided they have a similar level of control over that chakra of course.
First of all, you're a goofball.
This is obviously wasn't added as an anti-feat for Minato. It was literally there
as a feat for Minato...
I have no idea how you can read that and come to the conclusion that it was written as an anti-feat.
I didn't think it was, was just saying as an aside
With that being said, it's not really compelling support for Minato being superior to KM Naruto. For that to be the case, Naruto would need to have zero Kurama chakra left for that comparison to be possible, but we know he didn't have zero chakra. It just wasn't enough to enter perfect KM given how drained he was then due to many reasons.
Yeah but like Naruto was low enough on chakra that he couldn't
even properly maintain KCM1 which both inverse and especially via the wiki stats is vastly weaker than KCM2 (tens of thousands of times by my calculations), so compared to FP KCM2 Naruto he pretty much had no Kurama chakra left.
So it's less of a 'Minato gave an out of chakra Naruto a handout and it made him stronger than he was with his own chakra' situation, and more of a 'Minato's Kurama chakra in addition to some of Naruto's Kurama chakra made the cloaks stronger than ever because there was simply more Kurama chakra than ever before'.
More like Minato's Kurama chakra + inconsequential amount of Naruto's Kurama chakra made the cloaks significantly stronger than ever
Again, you're completely misinterpreting what that justification is saying.
It is referring to the Rasengan, obviously, because the Rasengan is the thing that performed the feat in question. Basically, what the justification is saying is that both of them pooled in their combined chakra to create that Rasengan, but then Naruto added Senjutsu chakra to it, enhancing it beyond what it would normally be (98 + 98 = 196 Teratons) and making it match Juubito (200 TT) to an extent. So that's why it's not very good support for Minato being equal to KSM Naruto or above KM Naruto.
But I think the wording should be improved to make it abundantly clear that it's talking about the Rasengan, even though that should have been obvious already.
Yeah Arc elaborated on that earlier but that wasn't my main basis for KCM Minato~BSM Naruto anyways. Although it is true that 198 TT shouldn't be enough to destroy Juubito's chakra arms and TSO shield combined considering his base stats are 200 TT, so that should at least give Minato 100 TT with the Massive Rasengan and Bijuudama by extension
I mean, it's not like Minato having KCM or not would improve his chakra control lmao. Minato's still the same as he was. And the narrative implication is clearly that Naruto just has a better grasp and control over that chakra. At best you could say it's not a point against Minato, but it definitely can't be one for him either. Either way, it's minor support that doesn't mean much on its own, especially because we're not using it to say 'Naruto > Minato' or anything.
That's not my point though. I'm saying chakra transfer =/= holistic chakra control skill. And it's pretty clear that's not the implication considering this isn't even something Minato could do at this point as he died before he could ever make use of Kurama's power as a jinchuriki.
I don't think it's a point toward Minato, I'm just saying it's weak evidence to hold him back.
Uh, yeah.......that's because it's literally the same attack lmao...
As I went over before, they pooled their chakra into the Rasengan and then Naruto enhanced it with Senjutsu, but they obviously attacked in tandem since it's.....the same attack.
But the pushing of the attack into Juubito's chakra arms is portrayed as being with comparable force. Particularly around the hands.
No, actually, he's exactly 100 TT, since he's rated as half of Juubito (who's 200 TT) due to Juubito casually matching both Naruto and Sasuke simultaneously.
Of course, he could've gotten to a 100 TT via upscaling as well, but it's one of those situations where both upscaling and concrete scaling coincide perfectly. Both would lead to a 100 TT.
And why is Juubito exactly 200 TT? He's just unquantifiably above Unstable Juubito/Edo Hashirama. And it's really not perfect. 2x is one thing (the thing I argued about in a previous thread), but Sage Mode being less than a 2% boost is just irreconcilable with its feats and portrayal. It doesn't even mechanically make sense when it involves
increasing your chakra level by 50% with energy that's probably more potent than regular energy.
So, yeah, I think given that the difference between 100 and 98 is very minute, all of the things you brought up here would still work with Minato being 98 and Naruto being a 100 TT.
Unless you're suggesting that Minato scales to Juubito (as a clone, and without his Avatar mind you) and should have 196 TT dura, I'm not sure how this helps in any way.
I think that it's at least a downscaling feat, along the lines of Kakashi downscaling to 7-B+ from Kisame's 7-A or Deidara's durability downscaling to baseline 7-A from taking Hebi Sasuke's mid 7-A punch with damage. I certainly don't think it should just be ignored.
I will say this is a feat I kinda completely overlooked tbh. Don't have much to say, I just think it's sorta legit. At a minimum, the chakra arms should upscale 100 TT because: Chakra arms > FCRF > Juubidamas = 98 TT. So, yeah. This is the one thing I agree with, I guess.
Nice
In conclusion, I didn't find the debunks very convincing at all. The feats used for support either don't work for me, or are simply reconcilable with Minato being 98 TT. The exception to this being the chakra arm feat, which is why I might be open to a 'Possibly/Likely High 6-B' rating for Minato.
I do like not full rejections
Sorry for the delay on this, btw. I was swamped, and I still am tbf. I probably won't be available to argue a whole lot here, but I feel like I did a good job of conveying my thoughts in any case, so that shouldn't be necessary. I suggest pinging a bunch of staff and getting this concluded.
I shall try. Also I think the fact that there have been so many (8-12) agreements is something worth taking into account
