Minato vs Tobirama

[ZKillerz]

Oh yeah, guess Tobirama ain't quite Wall level But really, the fact that Hashirama doing the same thing as Tobirama but better cracked the walls does suggest it wasn't simply powering up and nothing else. It was probably at least somewhat physical.

That's Tobirama talking to Hashirama.

Yes I was saying that Tobirama was weaving the chakra through his finger and emitting it, kind of like how jinchuriki use their tailed beast cloak.
Also why cant Suigetsu sense chakra? Doesn't seem inconsistent to me...

Oh for real? But the anime has Hashirama saying that line.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Number 1 voted character easy win

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes I was saying that Tobirama was weaving the chakra through his finger and emitting it, kind of like how jinchuriki use their tailed beast cloak.

But Jins don't emit their chakra outwardly, they just use it.

Also why cant Suigetsu sense chakra? Doesn't seem inconsistent to me...

I mean considering Karin is the sensor of the group it'd be kinda weird if Suigetsu is one too and that was just never noted.

Oh for real? But the anime has Hashirama saying that line.

? The anime also has Tobirama saying it.

 

[ZKillerz]

But Jins don't emit their chakra outwardly, they just use it.

I mean considering Karin is the sensor of the group it'd be kinda weird if Suigetsu is one too and that was just never noted.

? The anime also has Tobirama saying it.

Fair

I don't see why suigetsu would be afraid if he couldn't sense tobirama's chakra to begin with...
Karin still has better sensory skills than him but he should still be capable of sensing it

Ok I misremembered that scene

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't see why suigetsu would be afraid if he couldn't sense tobirama's chakra to begin with...
Karin still has better sensory skills than him but he should still be capable of sensing it

I can feel a tornado, but I can't sense its energy.

 

[ZKillerz]

I can feel a tornado, but I can't sense its energy.

So suigetsu was scared shitless by simple vibrations in the air? You see how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So suigetsu was scared shitless by simple vibrations in the air? You see how ridiculous that sounds?

It's not "simple vibrations," it's him shooting his chakra out at incredibly high levels.

 

[ZKillerz]

It's not "simple vibrations," it's him shooting his chakra out at incredibly high levels.

Based on your argument the lvl of his chakra didn't matter because Suigetsu couldn't sense it. So only the physical effect of his chakra matters right? And his chakra only managed to make a "woosh" sound effect so a light shockwave is what your suggesting scared Suigetsu shitless.

 

[SlendVeny]

Based on your argument the lvl of his chakra didn't matter because Suigetsu couldn't sense it. So only the physical effect of his chakra matters right? And his chakra only managed to make a "woosh" sound effect so a light shockwave is what your suggesting scared Suigetsu shitless.

He did a whoosh, it hit him with a very strong wave of energy.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Also even if I steelmanned this argument it doesn't particularly prove that Tobirama scales above Minato since Suigetsu could be scared of the fact that Tobirama was directing his fury in Suigetsu's direction, while against Ay he was merely in the same room and Bee doesn't scale to Minato anyways (Minato~>V2 Ay>>V1 Ay~>KCM Naruto>>SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya>>Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>3KK>Rasa = Bijuu level)

 

[ZKillerz]

Suigetsu could be scared of the fact that Tobirama was directing his fury in Suigetsu's direction, while against Ay he was merely in the same room and Bee doesn't scale to Minato anyways (Minato~>V2 Ay>>V1 Ay~>KCM Naruto>>SM Naruto>SM Jiraiya>>Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>3KK>Rasa = Bijuu level)

Being afraid of his chakra is a more consistent interpretation, since he went back to normal after Tobirama put his finger down and even got scared of Hashirama's chakra although he wasn't directing his rage towards them.
I agree minato is bijuu lvl ap wise, I'm just scaling Tobirama's chakra because its the only possible advantage I can think of at this point.

 

[ZKillerz]

it hit him with a very strong wave of energy.

Ok but Godsparkle thinks Suigetsu couldn't sense his chakra at all for some reason.

 

[SlendVeny]

Ok but Godsparkle thinks Suigetsu couldn't sense his chakra at all for some reason.

Guy lifts finger.

A wave of energy emnates through the room.

Holy shit that felt like a shockwave.

I look scared.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Being afraid of his chakra is a more consistent interpretation, since he went back to normal after Tobirama put his finger down and even got scared of Hashirama's chakra although he wasn't directing his rage towards them.
I agree minato is bijuu lvl ap wise, I'm just scaling Tobirama's chakra because its the only possible advantage I can think of at this point.

Obviously he'd go back to normal if Tobirama calms down, and Hashirama's effect was much more noticeable as he literally cracked the walls. Also it is said that at a certain level even non-sensors can feel chakra, so Suigetsu could've been able to feel Hashirama's since it was so strong and so it would've intimidated him even if it wasn't directed at him.

I guess you could say the same for Tobirama (which I'd argue is a bit 50/50), though the fact that he's actively emitting the chakra outward and Suigetsu's in the path of it still makes it different from the Ay situation where he's merely powering up and Suigetsu is just in the general vicinity.

 

[Arkenis]

minato fra

 

[ZKillerz]

Obviously he'd go back to normal if Tobirama calms down, and Hashirama's effect was much more noticeable as he literally cracked the walls. Also it is said that at a certain level even non-sensors can feel chakra, so Suigetsu could've been able to feel Hashirama's since it was so strong and so it would've intimidated him even if it wasn't directed at him.

I guess you could say the same for Tobirama (which I'd argue is a bit 50/50), though the fact that he's actively emitting the chakra outward and Suigetsu's in the path of it still makes it different from the Ay situation where he's merely powering up and Suigetsu is just in the general vicinity.

Tobirama could scare Suigetsu with his chakra its just that he was emitting it so it was easier than the other examples. Thats fine, btw how do yall view the canonicity of the novels?

 

[ZKillerz]

Minato is 3 above KCM1 while Tobirama is 2-3 above. And how does better skill with their signature moves not translate to 1v1 battles??

This isn't a good way to scale them
Unless you can prove each tier is an equal gap the amount of tiers dont prove anything

 

[ZKillerz]

Sure but Minato does have a higher assertion. And what??? Tobirama doesn't scale to KCM2 Naruto at all, and especially not MKCM2 Naruto, so he's irrelevant.

He's also shown more versatility and usage of FTG. He spreads kunai across the battlefield but Tobirama doesn't, he has FTG level 2, he has Guiding Thunder, Reciprocal Round Robin, a lot more variants and it's clearly a bigger key part of Minato's arsenal than Tobirama's.

Counted, although in the manga he's not actually shown to have genjutsu, Minato has clones too, and don't think Tobirama's FTG slice is better than all the FTG tricks Minato has (nor do I think it would land given Minato's Relativistic reactions)

We've never a seen Tobirama fight with prep time so you cant say that for sure, also ftg lvl 2 Tobirama has already been shown to do something similar
Also can you tell me what Guiding thunder or Reciprocal round Robin is? I dont think any of these abilities are canon
I thought we were equalizing reaction speed for this battle, so they both have an equal chance of tagging each other.

 

[ZKillerz]

Are we allowing prep time for this? If so then tobirama nukes minato with tandem paper bombs

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Tobirama could scare Suigetsu with his chakra its just that he was emitting it so it was easier than the other examples. Thats fine, btw how do yall view the canonicity of the novels?

Probably canon tho not sure how relevant that is

This isn't a good way to scale them
Unless you can prove each tier is an equal gap the amount of tiers dont prove anything

Just saying since there's no other way to connect their APs. Like if for example you had A>B>C>D>E>F>G>H>I<J, you'd reasonably be able to assume that A>J, even if the gaps aren't necessarily quantifiable.

We've never a seen Tobirama fight with prep time so you cant say that for sure, also ftg lvl 2 Tobirama has already been shown to do something similar

I mean sure, but Minato's literally stated to be better at FTG than Tobirama 3 times.

Tobirama did something similar, but I'd argue it's not quite as good.

Also can you tell me what Guiding thunder or Reciprocal round Robin is? I dont think any of these abilities are canon

This is Guiding Thunder and Reciprocal Round Robin.

I might've had a brain fart and meant Rasen Flash Super Circle Dance Howl Stage 3 tho rather than RRR.

I thought we were equalizing reaction speed for this battle, so they both have an equal chance of tagging each other.

Combat speed is equalized, and Tobirama's reaction speed is divided by the same ratio as his combat speed, as per the speed equalization rules.

Are we allowing prep time for this? If so then tobirama nukes minato with tandem paper bombs

No, and technically Alive Tobirama doesn't even have TPB in his key even tho he should

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[ZKillerz]

I forgot abt this thread
Voting for minato

 

[MinatoSparkle]

grace

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Added; Minato just can't lose in his own verse