The KCM Minato upgrade y'all knew was coming

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree with Arc btw

 

[Golden_Void]

inb4 Minato vs Kurama feat

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So, few issues.

The issue with this is that it doesn't really help us quantify anything. Naruto didn't just use Kcm2 but also 6 paths senjutsu as indicated by the appearance of TSOs and the markings on his back. So we can't exactly say what helped Naruto here was just Kcm2 alone. Furthermore the amps that the 2nd rinnegan and the god tree give is also pretty much unquantifiable. God Tree makes Madara immortal and rinnegan gives him 3 additional limbos so it's very much possible they don't give any notable AP amps

I'm not sure that would really boost his power actually. He's not getting a Sage Mode boost, he already got that with SPSM, and he's not getting chakra from some other source besides the Bijuu, and if you say the Bijuu's power is what gave him this large amp with SPS that kinda helps the point I was making in my first spoiler.

The issue here is that this only really works for speed, not AP, given how Naruto remained relative to Pain after entering SM but his strength jumped so much he blasted him away. Sage mode has always been shown more as an AP/dura amp rather than a speed amp.

I'm using current site stats, based on which Minato>>SM Naruto.

We even have kcm1 Narutos rasengan barely scratching off guard Obito vs SM Narutos rasengan damaging off-guard Juubito for a comparison. There's simply no way to put Minatos base AP above sage mode Naruto. We can actually compare them vs Obito

SM Naruto does not scale to Juubito, JJs are weak af to senjutsu attacks. Rinnegan Obito who's far weaker took next to no damage from a MKCM Naruto Rasengan.

Regardless of how you look at it, sage Naruto clearly outperformed Minato in terms of AP unless you believe 14 year old base Obito is more durable than 10 tails adult rinnegan Obito.

No and neither do I believe Pre-Six Paths Base SM Naruto scales to Stable Juubi Jinchuriki Obito

But even if we were to, for some unknown reason, call this an outlier, there would still be no way of putting base Minatos AP above WA sage mode Narutos.

Fighting in tandem works well for speed but not really AP. Them fighting in tandem doesn't exactly give any evidence that Minatos contributions were comparable to Narutos. Especially when one of them is using a massive AP amp such as sage mode.

The force lines, knocked back just as far, sustained similar damage, powerful support.

And kcm1 Naruto withstood unstable Juubito dashing and face-palming him. So this doesn't really even put him above kcm1 Naruto in durability

A face palm is not an offensive move, he grabbed them to hold them in place and use his TSOs as an attack.

Problem is, those arms don't exactly have any AP feats of their own. Obito never actually even uses them in combat as far as I remember.

1. Jutsu should scale to/above physicals unless otherwise shown
2. He did clearly as you respond to later

I'm sorry but where exactly does he use the arms? I don't see any chakra arms being used in those scans. It seems more like he did so with raw strength. Which is pretty inconsistent when he's unstable. Which again, did even do damage to kcm1 Naruto.

The red flickers on his back are the starting point of the chakra arms

Thing is, he did so with 4 arms.

1. Minato still countered 2 arms, and from a stronger Juubito
2. Even individually, each chakra arm was able to greatly stretch and strain the part of the barrier it was in contact with, meaning individual chakra arms at least somewhat scale to the FCRF. It's also not like all the arms were concentrating on one spot, they were each attacking the four sides, so they probably had to individually break the part of the barrier they were attacking.

The same formation was made by 4 hokages one of which was Minato. This just means Minatos kyubi avatar scales above his fcrf.

I'm not sure what your point is with this? Like yeah I'm scaling his Kurama Avatar, that was never in question. So his KA capabilities scale to a large portion of Edo SM Hashirama and the 3rd form Juubi's Bijuudamas, which the barrier withstood.

The problem with kcm Minato is that while him scaling this high would make sense, the arguments in favor of it are just not that convincing.
I think it might be better to play it safe with a "Possibly" or "Likely" rating than the full thing.

I could take a likely if a full rating is decided against

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'm not sure that would really boost his power actually. He's not getting a Sage Mode boost, he already got that with SPSM, and he's not getting chakra from some other source besides the Bijuu, and if you say the Bijuu's power is what gave him this large amp with SPS that kinda helps the point I was making in my first spoiler.

The bijuu chakra combined create 6ps. There's no reason to believe that 6ps is just as powerful as the individual bijuu chakras combined.

I'm using current site stats, based on which Minato>>SM Naruto.

That would just mean WA SM Naruto needs an AP upgrade.

SM Naruto does not scale to Juubito, JJs are weak af to senjutsu attacks.

Nuh uh. JJs don't have any extraordinary weakness to senjutsu like a super effective Pokémon attack. All we know is that their invulnerability doesn't work on senjutsu.

Rinnegan Obito who's far weaker took next to no damage from a MKCM Naruto Rasengan.

That helps my case. SM Naruto AP > off guard Juubito > off guard base Obito > kcm1 Naruto AP

No and neither do I believe Pre-Six Paths Base SM Naruto scales to Stable Juubi Jinchuriki Obito

Not fully but he does scale to him off guard. Which works fine because Obito was also caught off guard by both Minatos and kcm1 Narutos rasengans and they still did less damage despite Obito being weaker.

The force lines, knocked back just as far, sustained similar damage, powerful support.

Force lines? Knocked back just as far is because they weight basically the same. Similar damage doesn't really help given how there's basically no damage and no quantifiable way to scale the attack they received.

A face palm is not an offensive move, he grabbed them to hold them in place and use his TSOs as an attack.

He slammed them with enough force to blast through a susanoo ribcage. It should definitely be at least comparable to the goofy leg split that happened with Minato.

1. Jutsu should scale to/above physicals unless otherwise shown
2. He did clearly as you respond to later

No? Jutsu that are specifically designed to increase your damage output do. I don't see any reason why that would be the case here.

The red flickers on his back are the starting point of the chakra arms

Yeah but no chakra arms are coming from them yet

1. Minato still countered 2 arms, and from a stronger Juubito

Arms that are unquantifiable and had to go through a rasengan to get to him. Also arms that Naruto countered despite Juubito later one shotting his avatar.

2. Even individually, each chakra arm was able to greatly stretch and strain the part of the barrier it was in contact with, meaning individual chakra arms at least somewhat scale to the FCRF. It's also not like all the arms were concentrating on one spot, they were each attacking the four sides, so they probably had to individually break the part of the barrier they were attacking.

So? The barrier was made by the hokages wasn't it? I don't see how him destroying walls made by clone nerfed Tobirama, clone nerfed Hashirama, Minato himself, and old Hiruzen, scales him anywhere higher than he already scales.

I'm not sure what your point is with this? Like yeah I'm scaling his Kurama Avatar, that was never in question. So his KA capabilities scale to a large portion of Edo SM Hashirama and the 3rd form Juubi's Bijuudamas, which the barrier withstood.

Except when the barrier was destroyed by Juubitos arms it was only being held by clones or clone nerfed individuals. One of which, again, was Minato.

I could take a likely if a full rating is decided against

I think that would be safer.

But I haven't done any actual inverse Naruto related talk in quite a while so I could just be talking out of my ass.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The bijuu chakra combined create 6ps. There's no reason to believe that 6ps is just as powerful as the individual bijuu chakras combined.

So you're agreeing with me that Bijuu chakra can give you a nonlinear boost? Point proven then.

That would just mean WA SM Naruto needs an AP upgrade.

You can feel free to make a CRT, but until then it remains.

Nuh uh. JJs don't have any extraordinary weakness to senjutsu like a super effective Pokémon attack. All we know is that their invulnerability doesn't work on senjutsu.

SM Naruto scales so ridiculously far below Juubito that it makes much more sense for it to indeed be a Pokémon type advantage. Obito also calls it a weakness, lending support to this.

That helps my case. SM Naruto AP > off guard Juubito > off guard base Obito > kcm1 Naruto AP

So him being a little offguard (and I do mean a little since he knew the attack was coming as Tobirama's used the FTG marking multiple times by this point and is implied to have tried using Kamui, just didn't expect it to land) nerfs him by tens of thousands of times?

Not fully but he does scale to him off guard. Which works fine because Obito was also caught off guard by both Minatos and kcm1 Narutos rasengans and they still did less damage despite Obito being weaker.

Tens of thousands of times weaker yes. Is SM Naruto tens of thousands of times stronger than Hokage Minato and MKCM Naruto too?

Force lines?

The lines marking Naruto and Minato pushing the Rasengan into the chakra arms, around their hands and across the Rasengan.

Knocked back just as far is because they weight basically the same. Similar damage doesn't really help given how there's basically no damage and no quantifiable way to scale the attack they received.

You're not gonna automatically be sent flying by an attack if you're tough enough. And there is, BSM Naruto's tails are wavy and flickering in a slightly deformed way, kinda like a lesser version of what happened here. And regardless of how you slice it, Minato tanked the point blank explosion of an attack stronger than BSM Naruto's lone Rasengan.

He slammed them with enough force to blast through a susanoo ribcage. It should definitely be at least comparable to the goofy leg split that happened with Minato.

His actual charge had a lot of force, but that's not the same as when he's actually grabbing their faces. Like you can be running really fast from something and grab someone by the hand to bring them with you without them taking the force of your full speed run. Sasuke's Susanoo is much more durable than him (at least in Naruto Shippuden...), so it'd be kinda weird for Sasuke to tank the same force that destroyed it. What's goofy about Juubito's body just acting in a deformed way in general at this point?

No? Jutsu that are specifically designed to increase your damage output do. I don't see any reason why that would be the case here.

That's the point of using offensive ninjutsu in general. Using change in chakra form/chakra nature to make your attacks stronger than when you're simply pouring raw chakra into your strikes.

Yeah but no chakra arms are coming from them yet

Them being fired up can just mean the little bits of them that had been released were enough to break him out of the Deity Gates.

Arms that are unquantifiable and had to go through a rasengan to get to him. Also arms that Naruto countered despite Juubito later one shotting his avatar.

Arms that are above ones that destroyed the Four Crimson Rays Formation, and went around the Rasengan to get to him. There's no problem with Juubito's TSO arms>Juubito's chakra arms/physicals>Four Crimson Rays Formation

So? The barrier was made by the hokages wasn't it? I don't see how him destroying walls made by clone nerfed Tobirama, clone nerfed Hashirama, Minato himself, and old Hiruzen, scales him anywhere higher than he already scales.

Except when the barrier was destroyed by Juubitos arms it was only being held by clones or clone nerfed individuals. One of which, again, was Minato.

I don't believe VSBW treats clones as nerfing the user, and the clones had little power due to Hashirama concentrating so much of it in his original body, and anyways, the showing of his chakra arms alone against the supposedly nerfed barrier was enough for Hashirama to admit inferiority to Juubito, meaning these chakra arms are stronger than Hashirama.

I think that would be safer.

But I haven't done any actual inverse Naruto related talk in quite a while so I could just be talking out of my ass.

 

[Golden_Void]

Naruto moderately inconvenienced a far weaker version of Obito, Minato blew off YM Obito's arm + likely gave him some complementary organ damage. How does he scale to a stronger form of Obito while being in a weaker form himself?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

The bijuu chakra combined create 6ps. There's no reason to believe that 6ps is just as powerful as the individual bijuu chakras combined.

That would just mean WA SM Naruto needs an AP upgrade.

Nuh uh. JJs don't have any extraordinary weakness to senjutsu like a super effective Pokémon attack. All we know is that their invulnerability doesn't work on senjutsu.

That helps my case. SM Naruto AP > off guard Juubito > off guard base Obito > kcm1 Naruto AP

Not fully but he does scale to him off guard. Which works fine because Obito was also caught off guard by both Minatos and kcm1 Narutos rasengans and they still did less damage despite Obito being weaker.

Force lines? Knocked back just as far is because they weight basically the same. Similar damage doesn't really help given how there's basically no damage and no quantifiable way to scale the attack they received.

He slammed them with enough force to blast through a susanoo ribcage. It should definitely be at least comparable to the goofy leg split that happened with Minato.

No? Jutsu that are specifically designed to increase your damage output do. I don't see any reason why that would be the case here.

Yeah but no chakra arms are coming from them yet

Arms that are unquantifiable and had to go through a rasengan to get to him. Also arms that Naruto countered despite Juubito later one shotting his avatar.

So? The barrier was made by the hokages wasn't it? I don't see how him destroying walls made by clone nerfed Tobirama, clone nerfed Hashirama, Minato himself, and old Hiruzen, scales him anywhere higher than he already scales.

Except when the barrier was destroyed by Juubitos arms it was only being held by clones or clone nerfed individuals. One of which, again, was Minato.

I think that would be safer.

But I haven't done any actual inverse Naruto related talk in quite a while so I could just be talking out of my ass.

Nuh uh. JJs don't have any extraordinary weakness to senjutsu like a super effective Pokémon attack. All we know is that their invulnerability doesn't work on senjutsu.

did bro actually say "nuh uh" in a thread? do you have a scan to prove this btw or no?

 

[DavidTPPM]

did bro actually say "nuh uh" in a thread?

Yes I did, what are you going to do about it?

do you have a scan to prove this btw or no?

What do I need to prove? Hitchens razor ftw

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

hmm i am sorta neutral. i agree with some of the points mentioned here like with the charka seems fine to me

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

Yes I did, what are you going to do about it?

What do I need to prove? Hitchens razor ftw

oh wow words. words aren't evidence chief i can just say your wrong btw you know this vary well? no evidence on your end means i need no evidence to say your wrong. and yes you need a scan to prove your claim because you made the claim now prove it please

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

at least he knows about the razor but clearly has no clue how to use it properly

also my ask doesn't fall under the scope of Hitchens razor anyways because you made the positive claim so i just want a simple scan.

 

[DavidTPPM]

oh wow words. words aren't evidence chief i can just say your wrong btw you know this vary well? no evidence on your end means i need no evidence to say your wrong. and yes you need a scan to prove your claim because you made the claim now prove it please

I mean, I really don't care if you dismiss my claim but that doesn't mean the opposite is true. Alan said something without evidence, I dismissed it without evidence. Everything else is irrelevant in this context.

So yeah, my Nuh uh reigns supreme

 

[DavidTPPM]

at least he knows about the razor but clearly has no clue how to use it properly

also my ask doesn't fall under the scope of Hitchens razor anyways because you made the positive claim so i just want a simple scan.

Ah yes, the ultimate positive claim:
"Nuh uh"

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

I mean, I really don't care if you dismiss my claim but that doesn't mean the opposite is true. Alan said something without evidence, I dismissed it without evidence. Everything else is irrelevant in this context.

So yeah, my Nuh uh reigns supreme

oh wow cool of you to admit to tu quoque fallacy. good to know your opinion is irrelevant then.

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

Ah yes, the ultimate positive claim:
"Nuh uh"

i am afraid its not lol. nuh uh is not actual empirical evidence anyways. its just a word so you are still under the positive claim here. (if you can't prove it just say so)

 

[DavidTPPM]

oh wow cool of you to admit to tu quoque fallacy. good to know your opinion is irrelevant then.

at least he knows about the buzzword but clearly has no clue how to use it properly

i am afraid its not lol. nuh uh is not actual empirical evidence anyways. its just a word so you are still under the positive claim here. (if you can't prove it just say so)

Nuh uh

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

at least he knows about the buzzword

for 1 its not a buzzword lol. what you said is literally a tu quoque fallacy by definition lol.

and again "nuh uh" is not empirical evidence. So i am still waiting for that proof or you concede in my books.

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

like its not that hard to provide a scan. do people like to hide bushes around here and never actual prove there claims? lol

 

[DavidTPPM]

for 1 its not a buzzword lol. what you said is literally a tu quoque fallacy by definition lol.

Tu quoque fallacy is calling out someone's hypocrisy instead of addressing their arguments, usually in an effort to undermine the value of what they're saying.
I said, and I'm quoting

I really don't care if you dismiss my claim

So for beginners, I wasn't avoiding any arguments, I straight up don't care if you dismiss my interpretation.
And neither was I pointing out any hypocrisy. I was pointing out that what you're saying is a "positive claim" was just me dismissing Alans positive claim that he proposed without evidence. Hence why idc if you dismiss it.
That wouldn't change the lack of evidence for Alans claim, and mean I can just dismiss it via Hitchens razor.

The difference is that me and Alan aren't debating to make ourselves feel smarter than the other person, and are actually trying to reach the most logical conclusion. Just saying "can you prove that? Hitchens razor gg " would be about as productive as this goofyahh conversation we're having.

and again "nuh uh" is not empirical evidence. So i am still waiting for that proof or you concede in my books.

Nuh uh

 

[DavidTPPM]

Anyway I think we spammed the thread enough.

I might get to these arguments

So you're agreeing with me that Bijuu chakra can give you a nonlinear boost? Point proven then.

You can feel free to make a CRT, but until then it remains.

SM Naruto scales so ridiculously far below Juubito that it makes much more sense for it to indeed be a Pokémon type advantage. Obito also calls it a weakness, lending support to this.

So him being a little offguard (and I do mean a little since he knew the attack was coming as Tobirama's used the FTG marking multiple times by this point and is implied to have tried using Kamui, just didn't expect it to land) nerfs him by tens of thousands of times?

Tens of thousands of times weaker yes. Is SM Naruto tens of thousands of times stronger than Hokage Minato and MKCM Naruto too?

The lines marking Naruto and Minato pushing the Rasengan into the chakra arms, around their hands and across the Rasengan.

You're not gonna automatically be sent flying by an attack if you're tough enough. And there is, BSM Naruto's tails are wavy and flickering in a slightly deformed way, kinda like a lesser version of what happened here. And regardless of how you slice it, Minato tanked the point blank explosion of an attack stronger than BSM Naruto's lone Rasengan.

His actual charge had a lot of force, but that's not the same as when he's actually grabbing their faces. Like you can be running really fast from something and grab someone by the hand to bring them with you without them taking the force of your full speed run. Sasuke's Susanoo is much more durable than him (at least in Naruto Shippuden...), so it'd be kinda weird for Sasuke to tank the same force that destroyed it. What's goofy about Juubito's body just acting in a deformed way in general at this point?

That's the point of using offensive ninjutsu in general. Using change in chakra form/chakra nature to make your attacks stronger than when you're simply pouring raw chakra into your strikes.

Them being fired up can just mean the little bits of them that had been released were enough to break him out of the Deity Gates.

Arms that are above ones that destroyed the Four Crimson Rays Formation, and went around the Rasengan to get to him. There's no problem with Juubito's TSO arms>Juubito's chakra arms/physicals>Four Crimson Rays Formation

I don't believe VSBW treats clones as nerfing the user, and the clones had little power due to Hashirama concentrating so much of it in his original body, and anyways, the showing of his chakra arms alone against the supposedly nerfed barrier was enough for Hashirama to admit inferiority to Juubito, meaning these chakra arms are stronger than Hashirama.

later if I'm free, but I really don't feel like going on a novel war over a 2% AP bump. I have my own CRTs to make.

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

Tu quoque fallacy is calling out someone's hypocrisy instead of addressing their arguments, usually in an effort to undermine the value of what they're saying.
I said, and I'm quoting

So for beginners, I wasn't avoiding any arguments, I straight up don't care if you dismiss my interpretation.
And neither was I pointing out any hypocrisy. I was pointing out that what you're saying is a "positive claim" was just me dismissing Alans positive claim that he proposed without evidence. Hence why idc if you dismiss it.
That wouldn't change the lack of evidence for Alans claim, and mean I can just dismiss it via Hitchens razor.

The difference is that me and Alan aren't debating to make ourselves feel smarter than the other person, and are actually trying to reach the most logical conclusion. Just saying "can you prove that? Hitchens razor gg " would be about as productive as this goofyahh conversation we're having.

Nuh uh

lol

this is blatantly lieing about how Hitchens razor works. like yes hitchens razor does mention you can dismiss stuff with no evidence, but it never states it out right dismisses the claim. like the absence of evidence does not necessarily disprove the claim btw. hitchens razor would be on your side because alan didn't prove it. he would be under the burden of proof. but then you interjected and i asked for you proof for your claim which you keep overhyping hitchens as this force which negates arguments so i am basically doing the same to you which is why i am mentioning the top part. its stupid.

the definition you provided also doesn't fit the tu quoque fallacy. i was talking about in reference to the "my nuh uh regies supreme" mainly that.

again nuh uh isn't empirical evidence to your claim. you made the claim now provide a manga scan or its dismissed simple as that lol.

i mean it could just be i don't fully understand your argument but yea i need some type of scan to back it up

 

[DavidTPPM]

this is blatantly lieing about how Hitchens razor works. like yes hitchens razor does mention you can dismiss stuff with no evidence, but it never states it out right dismisses the claim.

"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

like the absence of evidence does not necessarily disprove the claim btw.

Which is why I said

I really don't care if you dismiss my claim

So what are you arguing about here?

BTW this is my last response to your pro-debater mumbo jumbo in this thread so no matter if/what you reply, imagine I just replied "Nuh uh".
Now go back to the actual topic

 

[Tdjwo]

Both of y'all goofy asf.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Place your bets, what happens first, the part 2 speed revisions drop or staff comment here

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@UchihaSlayer96 You just gonna take that?

 

[That_moron2]

Place your bets, what happens first, the part 2 speed revisions drop or staff comment here

Heat death of the universe

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

That joke don't work no more now that I put out the speed revision, losers

 

[MinatoSparkle]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

You'll love the title, I promise.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Slayer read my message again and think about which part you dropped speed revisions for

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Consider that reaction a Potara Fusion of "" and "".

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Anyway on a more serious note, I apologize for the delay. Been really busy, but I'll try to get to this soon. I promise. I guess feel free to tag this post if I end up forgetting for a while.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Consider that reaction a Potara Fusion of "" and "".

I still love you

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I still love you

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Anyway on a more serious note, I apologize for the delay. Been really busy, but I'll try to get to this soon. I promise. I guess feel free to tag this post if I end up forgetting for a while.

BOO!

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

BOO!

Tsk. Shouldn't have made that promise.

Spoiler: equal chakra?

"Equal in strength to Kurama Mode Naruto, as he has the other half of Kurama’s power."

The fact that they have the same amount of chakra amping them does not mean they're comparable amps linearly. Chakra volume isn't the only factor in strength, manipulation matters too, and as we see with the Juubi, you can be more than the sum of your parts, and this power of chakra combination applies to even a mindless monster, letalone someone with high intelligence and chakra control like Minato. An obvious example from around this point in the story is Sasuke. Both his Senjutsu Susanoo and Perfect Susanoo are comparable to BSM Naruto, with the only difference other than stage being that Jugo amped Sasuke in the former situation. Obviously Jugo's power is a literal speck to BSM Naruto, so if the mix didn't provide a Susanoo greater than the sum of its parts, the Perfect Susanoo would logically be much stronger than SEMS Sasuke and thus BSM Naruto, but it's not presented as such.

There's also evidence that KCM specifically is a nonlinear boost as it's a significant amp for even Six Paths Naruto, allowing him to fight 2E Juubidara when he previously couldn't overwhelm injured Pre-God Tree Juubidara physically, a difference vastly greater than what would be provided by 50% Kurama's base power plus a little chakra from the other Bijuu. If it was an amp determined by your base strength, there's absolutely no problem with KCM Minato~BSM Naruto. Alive Minato would just have to be above WA SM Naruto, which he definitely is, as Minato~/>V2 Ay>V1 Ay~KCM Naruto>SM Naruto. Not saying it is a multiplier, just putting it out there that it would explain the difference.

This is all well and good, but there's a very important thing you're forgetting. Kurama Mode just does not work like that.

You see Bijuu Mode is not really 'Jinchuriki + Bijuu' or 'Jinchuriki's base amped by Bijuu chakra added on top of it'.

It's more like 'Jinchuriki replacing their chakra with that of the Bijuu's'. The Jinchuriki shelves their own chakra away, and transform into their Bijuu in a pseudo-literal sense. Their chakra gets replaced with that of the Bijuu's. This mechanic has been set up fairly early on in the series, since we always knew they were two separate chakra pools that Jinchuriki can tap into. They've just been repeatedly hammered home as separate.

Won't get into Ten Tails Jinchuriki (or even pseudo Ten Tails Jinchuriki) because they're kinda different and have different mechanics. But basic Bijuu Mode works like I mentioned above. So yes, them having the same amount of chakra means they would be equal, provided they have a similar level of control over that chakra of course.

Spoiler: strong cloaks

"When he lent some of his chakra to Naruto, the Kyuubi cloaks were noted to be bigger and stronger than ever before."

First of all, this is obviously not an antifeat for Minato, but more importantly it's actually somewhat implicative that Minato is stronger than Naruto, as he'd already lost KCM at this point, and needed chakra from Minato's half of Kurama to return. So the cloaks were mostly powered by Minato's chakra, yet were notably stronger than when KCM2 Naruto powered them.

First of all, you're a goofball.
This is obviously wasn't added as an anti-feat for Minato. It was literally there as a feat for Minato...
I have no idea how you can read that and come to the conclusion that it was written as an anti-feat.

With that being said, it's not really compelling support for Minato being superior to KM Naruto. For that to be the case, Naruto would need to have zero Kurama chakra left for that comparison to be possible, but we know he didn't have zero chakra. It just wasn't enough to enter perfect KM given how drained he was then due to many reasons.

So it's less of a 'Minato gave an out of chakra Naruto a handout and it made him stronger than he was with his own chakra' situation, and more of a 'Minato's Kurama chakra in addition to some of Naruto's Kurama chakra made the cloaks stronger than ever because there was simply more Kurama chakra than ever before'.

Spoiler: KSM Minato!?

"KSM Naruto and Kurama Mode Minato were able to destroy Juubito's Chakra Arms and crack his TSO shield with their combined attack, but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato beyond his regular capabilities or not."

That statement is completely baseless and untrue. Naruto only adds chakra to the Rasengan, giving it senjutsu, not Minato's Kurama Avatar.

Again, you're completely misinterpreting what that justification is saying.

It is referring to the Rasengan, obviously, because the Rasengan is the thing that performed the feat in question. Basically, what the justification is saying is that both of them pooled in their combined chakra to create that Rasengan, but then Naruto added Senjutsu chakra to it, enhancing it beyond what it would normally be (98 + 98 = 196 Teratons) and making it match Juubito (200 TT) to an extent. So that's why it's not very good support for Minato being equal to KSM Naruto or above KM Naruto.

But I think the wording should be improved to make it abundantly clear that it's talking about the Rasengan, even though that should have been obvious already.

Spoiler: Naruto's control isn't allat

"Additionally, he should only be as strong as BM Naruto, since Naruto is confirmed to have better control over Kurama's chakra"

This isn't even in reference to KCM Minato, who hadn't appeared yet. Kurama said that Naruto is better at transferring chakra, which isn't the same as using chakra to amp yourself. Both are related to chakra control, but aren't identical. It's like using a statement that someone has faster hand sign weaving than someone else to say they're also faster at running. Both are related to speed, but different skills are used for the different actions.

I mean, it's not like Minato having KCM or not would improve his chakra control lmao. Minato's still the same as he was. And the narrative implication is clearly that Naruto just has a better grasp and control over that chakra. At best you could say it's not a point against Minato, but it definitely can't be one for him either. Either way, it's minor support that doesn't mean much on its own, especially because we're not using it to say 'Naruto > Minato' or anything.

With those debunks sorted, what supports that KCM Minato is relative to BSM Naruto? Well it's quite simple. They just attack in tandem, ramming their Rasengan into Juubito's chakra arms with comparable force, given that the lines indicating pushing all across the Rasengan and KA arms are very uniform and without a particular difference on the left side versus the right side, meaning that it's being done in sync.

Uh, yeah.......that's because it's literally the same attack lmao...
As I went over before, they pooled their chakra into the Rasengan and then Naruto enhanced it with Senjutsu, but they obviously attacked in tandem since it's.....the same attack.

Additionally, when they're blown away by the explosion of the Rasengan, they're sent flying just as far and Minato's Avatar seems to have deformed about as much as Naruto's, if not less so as his isn't flickering. All in line with Minato being a powerful support to Naruto, meaning he should at least be close in strength (and I know 98 TT is close to 100 TT, but Naruto's only rated as such because he can't quantifiably be placed higher; he's much stronger than KCM2 Naruto given how much a boost Sage Mode provides, unlike when compared to KCM Minato).

No, actually, he's exactly 100 TT, since he's rated as half of Juubito (who's 200 TT) due to Juubito casually matching both Naruto and Sasuke simultaneously.
Of course, he could've gotten to a 100 TT via upscaling as well, but it's one of those situations where both upscaling and concrete scaling coincide perfectly. Both would lead to a 100 TT.

So, yeah, I think given that the difference between 100 and 98 is very minute, all of the things you brought up here would still work with Minato being 98 and Naruto being a 100 TT.

In addition, Minato has individual feats supporting him being on this level. Even when mentally nerfed, he and his clone withstood a kick from Unstable Juubito who scales to 196.7 Teratons, which is especially impressive since clones (even with a mode amping them) consistently go down in one hit that breaches their durability, yet this clone remained active until Juubito blew it up with a TSO.

Unless you're suggesting that Minato scales to Juubito (as a clone, and without his Avatar mind you) and should have 196 TT dura, I'm not sure how this helps in any way.

In his team attack with BSM Naruto, he slapped away Stable Juubito's chakra arms, which obviously doesn't mean he's AS strong as Juubito, but is more evidence of him downscaling to baseline High 6-B like Naruto, especially since we know these aren't a weak jutsu by any means. Chakra arms from a weaker Juubito easily shattered Hashirama's Deity Gates (when not even properly formed) and the Four Crimson Rays Formation (albeit with more arms than what Minato countered, but still pretty insane).

I will say this is a feat I kinda completely overlooked tbh. Don't have much to say, I just think it's sorta legit. At a minimum, the chakra arms should upscale 100 TT because: Chakra arms > FCRF > Juubidamas = 98 TT. So, yeah. This is the one thing I agree with, I guess.

In conclusion, I didn't find the debunks very convincing at all. The feats used for support either don't work for me, or are simply reconcilable with Minato being 98 TT. The exception to this being the chakra arm feat, which is why I might be open to a 'Possibly/Likely High 6-B' rating for Minato.

Sorry for the delay on this, btw. I was swamped, and I still am tbf. I probably won't be available to argue a whole lot here, but I feel like I did a good job of conveying my thoughts in any case, so that shouldn't be necessary. I suggest pinging a bunch of staff and getting this concluded.

 

[Padaruyos]

Possibly High 6-B seems like the best option here. Due to Minato slapping away the Chakra arms.