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Naruto Hax Upgrading

🗿

Nobody has to engage with that can of headcanon. There's no evidence to say anything about the topic of ETSO vs Isshiki aside from your sensibilities about what would happen in some hypothetical versus match. This kind of argument is so subjective that it just cannot be taken as evidence, and really isn't going to amount to anything beyond opinions.
 
Arcker123 said:
🗿

Nobody has to engage with that can of headcanon. There's no evidence to say anything about the topic of ETSO vs Isshiki aside from your sensibilities about what would happen in some hypothetical versus match. This kind of argument is so subjective that it just cannot be taken as evidence, and really isn't going to amount to anything beyond opinions.
Click to expand...
My comment is not a headcanon comment. We know the skill sets of both characters and how they fight. The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya shows that Isshiki can resist Kaguya's final attack, ETSB. If he could not resist, Kaguya would already be stronger.
 
Patates said:
My comment is not a headcanon comment. We know the skill sets of both characters and how they fight. The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya shows that Isshiki can resist Kaguya's final attack, ETSB. If he could not resist, Kaguya would already be stronger.
Click to expand...
It is said that the majestic Attire: Susanoo is the strongest ninjutsu, in other words being stronger than Kaguya's power, taking into account that the manga still takes into account that Kaguya was the strongest enemy they faced
 
Patates said:
My comment is not a headcanon comment. We know the skill sets of both characters and how they fight. The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya shows that Isshiki can resist Kaguya's final attack, ETSB. If he could not resist, Kaguya would already be stronger.
Click to expand...
This just doesn't follow.

Isshiki > Kaguya doesn't have to entail Isshiki > ETSO. That's either going to assume the conclusion that characters scale to the ETSO, or just use headcanon to say that he scales over the ETSO due to the minutia of some imaginary versus match.

As Shadow said, strongest doesn't have to refer to being above all the attacks the opposing character has, it can also be that holistically, you have a superior case to be a victor.
 
Arcker123 said:
This just doesn't follow.

Isshiki > Kaguya doesn't have to entail Isshiki > ETSO. That's either going to assume the conclusion that characters scale to the ETSO, or just use headcanon to say that he scales over the ETSO due to the minutia of some imaginary versus match.

As Shadow said, strongest doesn't have to refer to being above all the attacks the opposing character has, it can also be that holistically, you have a superior case to be a victor.
Click to expand...
Bro, you probably need to read it again :)...


The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya means that he can withstand ETSB. If he cannot withstand ETSB, he cannot be stronger than Kaguya. You have to understand such a basic logic.


At the moment, Isshiki's AP is not measured on ETSB. Are you sure you read what I wrote? I am trying to scale Isshikin's dura above the ETSB ap, while BM naruto vs isshiki will get 4c ap.
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
Kaguya's ETSB starts with 5-B power and becomes 4-C 15 years later? If they start with 5-B, can this at least take them to 5-B?
Click to expand...
It doesn't make sense because we assume that the Otsutsuki were going to arrive at that time, but the anime itself contradicts them since they went to Earth due to the anomalies that were occurring (Probably due to the Nue dimension that remained open much longer than the other interdimensional doors in the work)
 
Patates said:
The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya means that he can withstand ETSB. If he cannot withstand ETSB, he cannot be stronger than Kaguya. You have to understand such a basic logic.
Click to expand...
The ETSO isn't even 4-C in destructive power, it destroys the realms through erasure not AP. Its AP comes from creation, so he might not even need to be 4-C to withstand it.

Again, you're just assuming the idea that Isshiki being above Kaguya means that he's above everything she could do. You haven't at all put forth a case that shows that necessarily means that Isshiki being > Kaguya means that he's above her amped and fully expanded ETSO.
Patates said:
At the moment, Isshiki's AP is not measured on ETSB. Are you sure you read what I wrote? I am trying to scale Isshikin's dura above the ETSB ap, while BM naruto vs isshiki will get 4c ap.
Click to expand...
That's the claim? I'm not sure if there's an argument here.
 
@OneBleachHurricane If you cannot answer the arguments, do not take shelter under non-existent rules. The wiki does not tell you that you cannot use your logic. Please do not create controversy and let's just discuss the topic.
 
Patates said:
The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya means that he can withstand ETSB. If he cannot withstand ETSB, he cannot be stronger than Kaguya. You have to understand such a basic logic.
Click to expand...
this is a fallacy, stronger does not mean solely AP. it can also mean how effective something is at dealing with certain elements or how effective they are overall.

an example being IRL Militaries considered stronger despite having less nukes, this is because they accounting for factors outside just 1 powerful outlier.

a Military with effective anti air missiles would be considered stronger than a military that just 1 has potent missile, because even though the payload delivery could be higher, the opposition has the means to neutralize their most valuable asset, thus making them stronger.

The Issue is that Ishikki straight up just doesnt have statments or jutsu that compare him to the ETSB.
 
Patates said:
@OneBleachHurricane If you cannot answer the arguments, do not take shelter under non-existent rules. The wiki does not tell you that you cannot use your logic.
Click to expand...
You and the OP are trying to scale characters above an ability that has very specific requirements to fullfil based on some of those characters seeing its initial state of usage... And immediately assume that those characters know the total amount of energy that the ability accumulates in it's final state... Then are trying to scale characters stated to be stronger than the character with said ability based on that premise...
 
What Patates means is that if Isshiki is definitely superior to Kaguya, there must be a way to win against her in a single combat. Logically, Kaguya must switch to ETSB in order to defeat Isshiki. Isshiki says how will he beat him since he can't send him with BFR. So how can he win by having a lower AP and without at least one hax that will help him win the battle?
 
Arcker123 said:
The ETSO isn't even 4-C in destructive power, it destroys the realms through erasure not AP. Its AP comes from creation, so he might not even need to be 4-C to withstand it.

Again, you're just assuming the idea that Isshiki being above Kaguya means that he's above everything she could do. You haven't at all put forth a case that shows that necessarily means that Isshiki being > Kaguya means that he's above her amped and fully expanded ETSO.
Click to expand...
It is written in the wiki that ETSB, which has developed over time, has 267 quettatons apsis, now you are just going against the information of the wiki. You show again that you have not read the topic. Arc7 has already touched on the growth issue of ETSB and I answered that the war does not end in a short time. Kaguya can resist for a long time with her renejaration and chakra resurrection technique. Thus, Ishiki tanks ETSB, which has shown an uncertain development.
Arcker123 said:
That's the claim? I'm not sure if there's an argument here.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry my english is bad
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
Gaara
Gaara's sand becomes stronger after every battle. Gaara's father Rasa states that he is getting stronger. Likewise, Madara also stated this. If the sand does not become stronger than before after each battle, all of the opponents Gaara fights will be at the same power level. I don't think anyone will see Gate 5 Lee, CE Sasuke, Kimimaro, Deidara, MS Sasuke, Edo Madara, Momoshiki and Urasahiki at the same level of ap and speed. (Accelerated Development)

Gentle Fist
Otsutsuki's and Hyuga clan members who are descendants of Hamura have Gentle Fist. Momoshiki also has this. When Momoshiki hit Naruto with Gentle Fist, Naruto was unaffected. This should give it resistance to Acupuncture and Dura Neg. At the same time, Gentle Fist, Dura Neg and Acupuncture are not even listed on Momoshiki's profile. It's just that Boruto's profile is not marked with a dura neg.
  • Naruto (Resistance to Dura neg & Acupuncture)
  • Boruto (Dura Neg)
  • Momoshiki (Dura neg & Acupuncture)
Click to expand...
This is good.
Apollonir.Scale said:
4-C Naruto & Isshiki
Kaguya's attack has 4-C Ap. Kurama says about Isshiki, "He is a completely different monster than the ones we have fought so far." According to Kurama, Isshiki is the strongest opponent that Naruto and Kurama have ever fought. It is also stated in the episode description that Isshiki is the strongest enemy. ''These two statements only apply to Isshiki Ap>Kaguya Ap. You may say "ETSB, which is 4-C, does not cover Kaguya". However, ETSB Kaguya is also technically an enemy, and Kurama has seen her strength as well.

4-C Momoshiki, Kinshiki, Gokage
Sasuke has knowledge of how powerful a character can be with his Sharingan. Although ETSB has seen Kaguya, they think Momoshiki and Kinshiki may be stronger than Kaguya. Then he says my hypothesis was correct. There will definitely be people who will not accept this. So let me give the following examples: When Sasuke, who has Sharingan and Rinnegan, sees Kaguya, he realizes that Kaguya's chakra is better than Madara's chakra. As soon as Pain, a Rinnegan user, saw Sage Mode Jiraiya, he implied that he had powers similar to Orochimaru. Tobi states that Sage Mode Jiraiya is a power worthy of the Sannin level. He had already seen Orochimaru before. While Madara fights with Sharingan against other shinobi, KCM switches to Rinnegan to react to Naruto. These come to my mind for now. There are many characters in the series who can feel their opponent's power by looking at them.

Not only with eye power, sensor type ninjas can sense how strong their opponent is. Naruto realized by feeling that Edo Nagato was stronger than the Pain he fought.
Click to expand...
I’m not mad, just disappointed.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
this is a fallacy, stronger does not mean solely AP. it can also mean how effective something is at dealing with certain elements or how effective they are overall.

an example being IRL Militaries considered stronger despite having less nukes, this is because they accounting for factors outside just 1 powerful outlier.

a Military with effective anti air missiles would be considered stronger than a military that just 1 has potent missile, because even though the payload delivery could be higher, the opposition has the means to neutralize their most valuable asset, thus making them stronger.

The Issue is that Ishikki straight up just doesnt have statments or jutsu that compare him to the ETSB.
Click to expand...
You misunderstood me, I am saying that only Isshiki can tank ETSB, from here only Isshiki's dura will increase to 4C.


I don't say isshiki ap>etsb ap because isshiki is stronger than kaguya
 
Patates said:
It is written in the wiki that ETSB, which has developed over time, has 267 quettatons apsis, now you are just going against the information of the wiki. You show again that you have not read the topic. Arc7 has already touched on the growth issue of ETSB and I answered that the war does not end in a short time. Kaguya can resist for a long time with her renejaration and chakra resurrection technique. Thus, Ishiki tanks ETSB, which has shown an uncertain development.

I'm sorry my english is bad
Click to expand...
It has that AP through creation, which is what I said.
 
Her4cl3s14 said:
It is said that the majestic Attire: Susanoo is the strongest ninjutsu, in other words being stronger than Kaguya's power, taking into account that the manga still takes into account that Kaguya was the strongest enemy they faced
Click to expand...
I think we should talk about this. It was stated that Shippuden was not included in the argument used for scaling MAS above ETSB. I didn't find it logical at the time either. Because the techniques used by genins were shown in Boruto until MAS appeared.

Her4cl3s14 said:
Kaguya was the strongest enemy they faced
Click to expand...
Also below the rejected CRT no one mentioned this
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
Gaara
Gaara's sand becomes stronger after every battle. Gaara's father Rasa states that he is getting stronger. Likewise, Madara also stated this. If the sand does not become stronger than before after each battle, all of the opponents Gaara fights will be at the same power level. I don't think anyone will see Gate 5 Lee, CE Sasuke, Kimimaro, Deidara, MS Sasuke, Edo Madara, Momoshiki and Urasahiki at the same level of ap and speed. (Accelerated Development)
Click to expand...
Agree with this.
Apollonir.Scale said:
Gentle Fist
Otsutsuki's and Hyuga clan members who are descendants of Hamura have Gentle Fist. Momoshiki also has this. When Momoshiki hit Naruto with Gentle Fist, Naruto was unaffected. This should give it resistance to Acupuncture and Dura Neg. At the same time, Gentle Fist, Dura Neg and Acupuncture are not even listed on Momoshiki's profile. It's just that Boruto's profile is not marked with a dura neg.
  • Naruto (Resistance to Dura neg & Acupuncture)
  • Boruto (Dura Neg)
  • Momoshiki (Dura neg & Acupuncture)
4-C Naruto & Isshiki
Click to expand...
I also agree this should be on otsusuki profile. I don't see naruto getting resistance. You and I could clearly see the gentle fist attacks working and naruto even coughs up blood.
Naruto has low-mid regen dude. He likely just healed himself.
Apollonir.Scale said:
Kaguya's attack has 4-C Ap. Kurama says about Isshiki, "He is a completely different monster than the ones we have fought so far." According to Kurama, Isshiki is the strongest opponent that Naruto and Kurama have ever fought. It is also stated in the episode description that Isshiki is the strongest enemy. ''These two statements only apply to Isshiki Ap>Kaguya Ap. You may say "ETSB, which is 4-C, does not cover Kaguya". However, ETSB Kaguya is also technically an enemy, and Kurama has seen her strength as well.
Click to expand...
1. First wait for EE below 2c to actually become ap then you can argue etso has 4c destruction because as of right now all it has is 4c creation over like 10 years which you cannot hope to scale anyone to. It's a lowball but it is all we got.
Apollonir.Scale said:
4-C Momoshiki, Kinshiki, Gokage
Sasuke has knowledge of how powerful a character can be with his Sharingan. Although ETSB has seen Kaguya, they think Momoshiki and Kinshiki may be stronger than Kaguya. Then he says my hypothesis was correct. There will definitely be people who will not accept this. So let me give the following examples: When Sasuke, who has Sharingan and Rinnegan, sees Kaguya, he realizes that Kaguya's chakra is better than Madara's chakra. As soon as Pain, a Rinnegan user, saw Sage Mode Jiraiya, he implied that he had powers similar to Orochimaru. Tobi states that Sage Mode Jiraiya is a power worthy of the Sannin level. He had already seen Orochimaru before. While Madara fights with Sharingan against other shinobi, KCM switches to Rinnegan to react to Naruto. These come to my mind for now. There are many characters in the series who can feel their opponent's power by looking at them.

Not only with eye power, sensor type ninjas can sense how strong their opponent is. Naruto realized by feeling that Edo Nagato was stronger than the Pain he fought.
Click to expand...
Sasuke himself never even witnessed this 4c power first hand. The portion he witnessed would not get past moon level to planetary so this is wrong.

Personally i think ishikki should scale above but the evidence are just really weak
 
Patates said:
The fact that Isshiki is stronger than Kaguya means that he can withstand ETSB. If he cannot withstand ETSB, he cannot be stronger than Kaguya. You have to understand such a basic logic.
Click to expand...
No it doesn’t because:
a) ETSO was made through chakra absorbed from the Infinite Tsukuyomi and thus doesn’t scale to Kaguya’s standard output.
b) Isshiki doesn’t need to scale above Kaguya’s strongest attacks to be stronger than her. She could have a 3-C attack and it wouldn’t do her any good if Isshiki just beat the dog out of her before she could use it.
 
karo_senpaii said:
1. First wait for EE below 2c to actually become ap then you can argue etso has 4c destruction because as of right now all it has is 4c creation over like 10 years which you cannot hope to scale anyone to. It's a lowball but it is all we got.
Click to expand...
It doesn't make sense because we assume that the Otsutsuki were going to arrive at that in 15 years, but the anime itself contradicts them since they went to Earth due to the anomalies that were occurring (Probably due to the Nue dimension that remained open much longer than the other interdimensional doors in the work)
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
So what do you think about the strongest jutsu statement for MAS?
Click to expand...
Well this particular stuff has been argued repeatedly and the masses were of the opinion it was applying to their arsenal as opposed to jutsu in all of history
If we ever for some strange reason get a boruto databook maybe this might be resolved. Till then it is a "moo" point
 
Her4cl3s14 said:
It doesn't make sense because we assume that the Otsutsuki were going to arrive at that in 15 years, but the anime itself contradicts them since they went to Earth due to the anomalies that were occurring (Probably due to the Nue dimension that remained open much longer than the other interdimensional doors in the work)
Click to expand...
Do have a better time frame? Drop suggestions or you want the feat completely removed?
 
Apollonir.Scale said:
Does Naruto have this regeneration when in his base form?
Click to expand...
He has yes not as High but he does due to hashi cells. We even see him easily regen a sword to his stomach
Her4cl3s14 said:
I consider that there is no proof that says that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were going to arrive at that time, for the moment I consider that this feat should be eliminated because there is no time frame except for Kakashi's mention that his dimension would end everyone and that not even Kamui would help them
Click to expand...
So you want the feat entirely removed. Well that's a different topic.
 
SuperStar said:
For Real Real.
Click to expand...
apparently-gojo-smokes-weed-now-spent-about-a-day-making-v0-wgwio701lkhb1.jpg
 
If there are no results for 5-B or 4-C, I will remove them from the CRT and leave only the articles about Gaara's sand strengthening and Gentle Fist in the crt. Is it suitable for you?
 
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