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MinatoSparkle

He/Him
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Currently, KCM Minato is accepted as scaling to KCM2 Naruto, and the reasoning for such is as follows.

"Equal in strength to Kurama Mode Naruto, as he has the other half of Kurama’s power. When he lent some of his chakra to Naruto, the Kyuubi cloaks were noted to be bigger and stronger than ever before. KSM Naruto and Kurama Mode Minato were able to destroy Juubito's Chakra Arms and crack his TSO shield with their combined attack, but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato beyond his regular capabilities or not. Additionally, he should only be as strong as BM Naruto, since Naruto is confirmed to have better control over Kurama's chakra"

Before I get to why KCM Minato is definitely above KCM2 and should be BSM level, let me talk about why the current justification shouldn't be used to hold Minato back at all.

"Equal in strength to Kurama Mode Naruto, as he has the other half of Kurama’s power."

The fact that they have the same amount of chakra amping them does not mean they're comparable amps linearly. Chakra volume isn't the only factor in strength, manipulation matters too, and as we see with the Juubi, you can be more than the sum of your parts, and this power of chakra combination applies to even a mindless monster, letalone someone with high intelligence and chakra control like Minato. An obvious example from around this point in the story is Sasuke. Both his Senjutsu Susanoo and Perfect Susanoo are comparable to BSM Naruto, with the only difference other than stage being that Jugo amped Sasuke in the former situation. Obviously Jugo's power is a literal speck to BSM Naruto, so if the mix didn't provide a Susanoo greater than the sum of its parts, the Perfect Susanoo would logically be much stronger than SEMS Sasuke and thus BSM Naruto, but it's not presented as such.

There's also evidence that KCM specifically is a nonlinear boost as it's a significant amp for even Six Paths Naruto, allowing him to fight 2E Juubidara when he previously couldn't overwhelm injured Pre-God Tree Juubidara physically, a difference vastly greater than what would be provided by 50% Kurama's base power plus a little chakra from the other Bijuu. If it was an amp determined by your base strength, there's absolutely no problem with KCM Minato~BSM Naruto. Alive Minato would just have to be above WA SM Naruto, which he definitely is, as Minato~/>V2 Ay>V1 Ay~KCM Naruto>SM Naruto. Not saying it is a multiplier, just putting it out there that it would explain the difference.
"When he lent some of his chakra to Naruto, the Kyuubi cloaks were noted to be bigger and stronger than ever before."

First of all, this is obviously not an antifeat for Minato, but more importantly it's actually somewhat implicative that Minato is stronger than Naruto, as he'd already lost KCM at this point, and needed chakra from Minato's half of Kurama to return. So the cloaks were mostly powered by Minato's chakra, yet were notably stronger than when KCM2 Naruto powered them.
"KSM Naruto and Kurama Mode Minato were able to destroy Juubito's Chakra Arms and crack his TSO shield with their combined attack, but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato beyond his regular capabilities or not."

That statement is completely baseless and untrue. Naruto only adds chakra to the Rasengan, giving it senjutsu, not Minato's Kurama Avatar.
"Additionally, he should only be as strong as BM Naruto, since Naruto is confirmed to have better control over Kurama's chakra"

This isn't even in reference to KCM Minato, who hadn't appeared yet. Kurama said that Naruto is better at transferring chakra, which isn't the same as using chakra to amp yourself. Both are related to chakra control, but aren't identical. It's like using a statement that someone has faster hand sign weaving than someone else to say they're also faster at running. Both are related to speed, but different skills are used for the different actions.

With those debunks sorted, what supports that KCM Minato is relative to BSM Naruto? Well it's quite simple. They just attack in tandem, ramming their Rasengan into Juubito's chakra arms with comparable force, given that the lines indicating pushing all across the Rasengan and KA arms are very uniform and without a particular difference on the left side versus the right side, meaning that it's being done in sync. Additionally, when they're blown away by the explosion of the Rasengan, they're sent flying just as far and Minato's Avatar seems to have deformed about as much as Naruto's, if not less so as his isn't flickering. All in line with Minato being a powerful support to Naruto, meaning he should at least be close in strength (and I know 98 TT is close to 100 TT, but Naruto's only rated as such because he can't quantifiably be placed higher; he's much stronger than KCM2 Naruto given how much a boost Sage Mode provides, unlike when compared to KCM Minato).

In addition, Minato has individual feats supporting him being on this level. Even when mentally nerfed, he and his clone withstood a kick from Unstable Juubito who scales to 196.7 Teratons, which is especially impressive since clones (even with a mode amping them) consistently go down in one hit that breaches their durability, yet this clone remained active until Juubito blew it up with a TSO. In his team attack with BSM Naruto, he slapped away Stable Juubito's chakra arms, which obviously doesn't mean he's AS strong as Juubito, but is more evidence of him downscaling to baseline High 6-B like Naruto, especially since we know these aren't a weak jutsu by any means. Chakra arms from a weaker Juubito easily shattered Hashirama's Deity Gates (when not even properly formed) and the Four Crimson Rays Formation (albeit with more arms than what Minato countered, but still pretty insane).

With all that covered, this is my revision suggestion updated after staff input (I added speed and LS since KCM Minato is pretty much in a scaling vacuum, so him being upgraded doesn't really affect anyone else, but I'm fine with leaving it if staff say I should wait for those revisions. Will add references when adding to the profile).

Attack Potency: At least Country level+ with Kurama Mode (Should be comparable in strength to Kurama Mode Naruto, as he has the other half of Kurama’s power.[46] Additionally, he should only be as strong as BM Naruto, since Naruto is confirmed to have better control over Kurama's chakra[49][50][Note 3]), possibly Large Country level (Fought in tandem with Kurama Sage Mode Naruto to repel and destroy Juubito's Chakra Arms, as well as crack his TSO shield, and was called a powerful support to Naruto[48]. When he lent some of his chakra to Naruto, the Kyuubi cloaks were noted to be bigger and stronger than ever before despite Naruto needing chakra from Minato to even enter Kurama Mode[47]. However, it's unclear how much of Kurama's power Naruto had at this point)

Speed: At least Sub-Relativistic...far higher with Kurama Mode (Fought in tandem with Kurama Sage Mode Naruto and countered Juubito's Chakra Arms. He and his clone reacted to Unstable Juubito's kicks)

Lifting Strength: At least Class G (Should be comparable to Kurama Mode Naruto), possibly higher (Might be comparable to Kurama Sage Mode Naruto)

Striking Strength: At least Country level+ with Kurama Mode (Should be comparable to Kurama Mode Naruto), possibly Large Country level (Might be comparable to Kurama Sage Mode Naruto and repelled Juubito's Chakra Arms)

Durability: At least Country level+, possibly Large Country level with Kurama Mode (Comparable to his striking strength. Tanked the explosion caused by his and Kurama Sage Mode Naruto's combined Rasengan. He and his clone withstood Unstable Juubito's kicks)

Agree: UchihaSlayer96, DarkDragonMedeus, Robo432343, Padaruyos, speedster352, Arkenis, Golden_Void, Tdjwo, Stryker861, Apollonir.Scale, DavidTPPM, Ghostimuscrime, possibly: Giannysmag, SlendVeny, HelloThere1089, Nierre, Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe

Disagree: Damage3245, LordTracer, Arc7Kuroi, Spectra_Schiffer

Neutral: Naeblish495, LifeRiderthe1 (agrees with the chakra point)
 
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So regarding your first spoiler on equal chakra. I agree that chakra amount isn't everything and chakra control is important, so I'll save my thoughts for that when addressing your chakra control point. Since, basically this point only matters in context to say if they have the same chakra whoever has better control will be stronger.

Regarding the strong chakra cloaks point next. Naruto's Kurama was not out of chakra, he states that if Naruto wants to use perfect biju mode, he will need to wait (for Kurama to gather chakra). So when Minato's Kurama gives Naruto's Kurama some chakra, ofc it's going to be stronger than before, as now it's the Minato Kurama chakra + some of the Naruto Kurama chakra. Since Naruto's Kurama wasn't at 0 chakra but rather just didn't have enough to enter KCM2. Basically, that makes the comparison you're trying to make difficult, since it's impossible to quantify whether Minato's Kurama is the sole reason for the stronger cloaks, or if Kurama still having some chakra and getting more chakra from his other half being the main reason.

Your point about Senjutsu seems wholly irrelevant. Like we all know Naruto pumps Senjutsu into the Rasengan and not Minato's Kurama cloak. They use the Rasengan to perform the feat, the scaling comes from the Rasengan. So the point still stands but reword this (but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato beyond his regular capabilities or not) to this (but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato and Naruto's Rasengan beyond their regular combined capabilities or not). Like sure, Naruto isn't cloaking Minato in Senjutsu Jugo-Sasuke style, but he's adding Senjutsu to the attack that performs the feat, hence why that is in the justification. If anything your issue boils down to the semantics of the phrasing, rather than the actual scaling.

Lastly, to tackle the chakra control point. In that scan you posted, while Kurama is talking about Naruto's ability to manipulate the Kurama chakra, he also says that Naruto far surpasses Minato and Kushina. Which seems to far more support the current scaling interpretation than this new one you're proposing. Now that isn't to say it's impossible that Minato just got better in the reaper death seal because the plot called for it. However, given I don't think your other points hold much weight, I don't see why we would grant that.

That being said, if staff majority vote is that Minato's Kurama chakra is the main contributor for the cloak increase, then yeah I can concede on KCM Minato ~ BSM Naruto. However, currently I'm leaning towards disagreeing with the proposals.
 
So regarding your first spoiler on equal chakra. I agree that chakra amount isn't everything and chakra control is important, so I'll save my thoughts for that when addressing your chakra control point. Since, basically this point only matters in context to say if they have the same chakra whoever has better control will be stronger.
I mean like I said that's not the only thing. The Juubi is literally a mindless monster, his chakra control would probably be pretty bad if anything, yet he's still much stronger than the other Bijuu simply cause chakras mixing can inherently provide a nonlinear boost.
Regarding the strong chakra cloaks point next. Naruto's Kurama was not out of chakra, he states that if Naruto wants to use perfect biju mode, he will need to wait (for Kurama to gather chakra). So when Minato's Kurama gives Naruto's Kurama some chakra, ofc it's going to be stronger than before, as now it's the Minato Kurama chakra + some of the Naruto Kurama chakra. Since Naruto's Kurama wasn't at 0 chakra but rather just didn't have enough to enter KCM2. Basically, that makes the comparison you're trying to make difficult, since it's impossible to quantify whether Minato's Kurama is the sole reason for the stronger cloaks, or if Kurama still having some chakra and getting more chakra from his other half being the main reason.
Those aren't mutually exclusive, obviously if Naruto's out of Kurama chakra then he needs to wait to enter Perfect Bijuu Mode too, which is more consistent with Naruto's cloak literally dissipating and being told that he needs to fight without Kurama's chakra for a while. I wouldn't say Naruto's half of Kurama is literally at 0 chakra, but he should still be quite low for Naruto to not even be able to maintain KCM.
Your point about Senjutsu seems wholly irrelevant. Like we all know Naruto pumps Senjutsu into the Rasengan and not Minato's Kurama cloak. They use the Rasengan to perform the feat, the scaling comes from the Rasengan. So the point still stands but reword this (but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato beyond his regular capabilities or not) to this (but it is unclear if Naruto's Senjutsu chakra enhanced Minato and Naruto's Rasengan beyond their regular combined capabilities or not). Like sure, Naruto isn't cloaking Minato in Senjutsu Jugo-Sasuke style, but he's adding Senjutsu to the attack that performs the feat, hence why that is in the justification. If anything your issue boils down to the semantics of the phrasing, rather than the actual scaling.
So I'm not seeing the problem? My argument was never particularly about the Rasengan blasting through Juubito's chakra arms, but rather the physical actions done by the Kurama Avatars, which I described in the OP. It's not like their combined Rasengan being at a certain level would mean Minato scales to Naruto anyways (unless the idea is something like Juubito is 200 TT and 98 + 100 isn't 200, which would be pretty meh).
Lastly, to tackle the chakra control point. In that scan you posted, while Kurama is talking about Naruto's ability to manipulate the Kurama chakra, he also says that Naruto far surpasses Minato and Kushina. Which seems to far more support the current scaling interpretation than this new one you're proposing.
He far surpasses Alive Minato and Kushina cause he has so much more raw chakra than them and he can control it well. That doesn't mean he surpasses them in every aspect.
Now that isn't to say it's impossible that Minato just got better in the reaper death seal because the plot called for it. However, given I don't think your other points hold much weight, I don't see why we would grant that.
I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly? Also not sure how direct feats don't hold much weight. Like him warding off Stable Juubito's chakra arms and his clone tanking Unstable Juubito alone should be enough to downscale him to baseline High 6-B, letalone his scaling to BSM Naruto.
 
I'm a simple man. I see Minato, I agree FRA

Also, "bigger than before" is quite a specific description compared to, let's say, "it has been restored," "it's back," "back to normal," or some variation of that.
 
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So, few issues.
There's also evidence that KCM specifically is a nonlinear boost as it's a significant amp for even Six Paths Naruto, allowing him to fight 2E Juubidara when he previously couldn't overwhelm injured Pre-God Tree Juubidara physically, a difference vastly greater than what would be provided by 50% Kurama's base power plus a little chakra from the other Bijuu.
The issue with this is that it doesn't really help us quantify anything. Naruto didn't just use Kcm2 but also 6 paths senjutsu as indicated by the appearance of TSOs and the markings on his back. So we can't exactly say what helped Naruto here was just Kcm2 alone. Furthermore the amps that the 2nd rinnegan and the god tree give is also pretty much unquantifiable. God Tree makes Madara immortal and rinnegan gives him 3 additional limbos so it's very much possible they don't give any notable AP amps
If it was an amp determined by your base strength, there's absolutely no problem with KCM Minato~BSM Naruto. Alive Minato would just have to be above WA SM Naruto, which he definitely is, as Minato~/>V2 Ay>V1 Ay~KCM Naruto>SM Naruto. Not saying it is a multiplier, just putting it out there that it would explain the difference.
The issue here is that this only really works for speed, not AP, given how Naruto remained relative to Pain after entering SM but his strength jumped so much he blasted him away. Sage mode has always been shown more as an AP/dura amp rather than a speed amp. We even have kcm1 Narutos rasengan barely scratching off guard Obito vs SM Narutos rasengan damaging off-guard Juubito for a comparison. There's simply no way to put Minatos base AP above sage mode Naruto. We can actually compare them vs Obito
Screenshot-2024-02-22-10-55-56-619-eu-kanade-tachiyomi-edit.jpg

Screenshot-2024-02-22-10-58-09-028-eu-kanade-tachiyomi-edit.jpg

Regardless of how you look at it, sage Naruto clearly outperformed Minato in terms of AP unless you believe 14 year old base Obito is more durable than 10 tails adult rinnegan Obito.

But even if we were to, for some unknown reason, call this an outlier, there would still be no way of putting base Minatos AP above WA sage mode Narutos.
With those debunks sorted, what supports that KCM Minato is relative to BSM Naruto? Well it's quite simple. They just attack in tandem, ramming their Rasengan into Juubito's chakra arms with comparable force, given that the lines indicating pushing all across the Rasengan and KA arms are very uniform and without a particular difference on the left side versus the right side, meaning that it's being done in sync. Additionally, when they're blown away by the explosion of the Rasengan, they're sent flying just as far and Minato's Avatar seems to have deformed about as much as Naruto's, if not less so as his isn't flickering. All in line with Minato being a powerful support to Naruto, meaning he should at least be close in strength (and I know 98 TT is close to 100 TT, but Naruto's only rated as such because he can't quantifiably be placed higher; he's much stronger than KCM2 Naruto given how much a boost Sage Mode provides, unlike when compared to KCM Minato).
Fighting in tandem works well for speed but not really AP. Them fighting in tandem doesn't exactly give any evidence that Minatos contributions were comparable to Narutos. Especially when one of them is using a massive AP amp such as sage mode.
In addition, Minato has individual feats supporting him being on this level. Even when mentally nerfed, he and his clone withstood a kick from Unstable Juubito
And kcm1 Naruto withstood unstable Juubito dashing and face-palming him. So this doesn't really even put him above kcm1 Naruto in durability
In his team attack with BSM Naruto, he slapped away Stable Juubito's chakra arms, which obviously doesn't mean he's AS strong as Juubito, but is more evidence of him downscaling to baseline High 6-B like Naruto, especially since we know these aren't a weak jutsu by any means.
Problem is, those arms don't exactly have any AP feats of their own. Obito never actually even uses them in combat as far as I remember.
Chakra arms from a weaker Juubito easily shattered Hashirama's Deity Gates (when not even properly formed)
I'm sorry but where exactly does he use the arms? I don't see any chakra arms being used in those scans. It seems more like he did so with raw strength. Which is pretty inconsistent when he's unstable. Which again, did even do damage to kcm1 Naruto.
and the Four Crimson Rays Formation (albeit with more arms than what Minato countered, but still pretty insane).
Thing is, he did so with 4 arms. The same formation was made by 4 hokages one of which was Minato. This just means Minatos kyubi avatar scales above his fcrf.
With all that covered, this is my revision suggestion (I added speed and LS since KCM Minato is pretty much in a scaling vacuum, so him being upgraded doesn't really affect anyone else, but I'm fine with leaving it if staff say I should wait for those revisions. Will add references when adding to the profile).
The problem with kcm Minato is that while him scaling this high would make sense, the arguments in favor of it are just not that convincing.
I think it might be better to play it safe with a "Possibly" or "Likely" rating than the full thing.
 
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