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ThisDienomite22 said:
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At Least Universal DMC and more continued
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Yeah and other people even gave you a summary on your wall(which you didnt bother looking at),waited a long time for your reply and then after giving a reply you just say no and not agreeing because of portals and what not
Other knowledgable members and several people looking at this thread and the other agree with this,there is yet to be made any counter argument about 3-A at this point
Other knowledgable members and several people looking at this thread and the other agree with this,there is yet to be made any counter argument about 3-A at this point
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Okay sparda would be higher on the list then. But Dante absorbed 2/4 of his power plus his own power which is more powerful void mundusDienomite22 said:
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If we want to talk about Dante's feats without scaling he's literally never destroyed anything larger than a building. But of course by scaling he fights a lot of Sparda-level people or close-to-Sparda level people... Who don't have any great feats either.
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Waiting on the anti-feats for God tiers
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Literally just brought it up, my dude.
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So the lack of feats is an anti-feat now?
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By that logic A LOT of verses would be downgraded.Matthew Schroeder said:
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@Matthew Schroeder
No you didn't, you just don't like the scaling and that logic would downgrade most verses on this wiki.Post actual anti-feats from the games and novels.
No you didn't, you just don't like the scaling and that logic would downgrade most verses on this wiki.Post actual anti-feats from the games and novels.
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I'm a bit iffy on Mundus, but Argosax feat seems pretty solid.
Although, i guess you could argue for 4-A (supporting feats plus Mundus), possibly 3-A (Argosax feat), but whatever.
I also agree with Option 1.
Although, i guess you could argue for 4-A (supporting feats plus Mundus), possibly 3-A (Argosax feat), but whatever.
I also agree with Option 1.
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A lack of feats even remotely close to 3-A coupled with Dante consistently being harmed by opponents who don't even come close to 3-A
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I agree with Dante Demon Killah, that guy is literally reading my mind :v
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Harmed by, I dunno, the God tiers of the verse?WeeklyBattles said:
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Consistent feats and a similar shown scale is incredibly important.
If one random "God Tier" makes a Universal feat, but the whole verse including other high-level beings are operating on a mostly Tier 8 to 7 scale with a couple Tier 6 feats sprinkled throughout, then it is an outlier, even if technically nothing contradicts that character doing it.
"This would downgrade most verses" isn't an argument, it's an appeal to tradition and an appeal to quantity. It proves nothing. That apparently so many verses on the wiki operate on scaling out of a single feat performed by a single character that far outpasses everything else in the verse isn't a positive thing, it's in fact a terrible thing that should be changed
If one random "God Tier" makes a Universal feat, but the whole verse including other high-level beings are operating on a mostly Tier 8 to 7 scale with a couple Tier 6 feats sprinkled throughout, then it is an outlier, even if technically nothing contradicts that character doing it.
"This would downgrade most verses" isn't an argument, it's an appeal to tradition and an appeal to quantity. It proves nothing. That apparently so many verses on the wiki operate on scaling out of a single feat performed by a single character that far outpasses everything else in the verse isn't a positive thing, it's in fact a terrible thing that should be changed
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Post an instance where 3-A Dante was actually harmed by opponents who wouldn't scale to 3-AWeeklyBattles said:
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@Matthew Schroeder
No, if the God tiers of the verse was stated and repeatedly shown to be massively above the other tiers and said God tiers do not have anti-feats and were only defeated by other God tiers or by a special method and these God tiers have feats that are way above the other tiers (Argosax(3-A) and Mundus(4-A)), then it's not an outlier.
No, if the God tiers of the verse was stated and repeatedly shown to be massively above the other tiers and said God tiers do not have anti-feats and were only defeated by other God tiers or by a special method and these God tiers have feats that are way above the other tiers (Argosax(3-A) and Mundus(4-A)), then it's not an outlier.
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From the page: An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power.
Mundus creates a universe, Argosax is making it so the two universes become one againg, Void Mundus is stronger than the other two, Sparda is on par(?)/stronger(?) with Void Mundus and Urizen is being depicted as being superior to Mundus and probably Sparda and finally Dante/Vergil/Nero whom are stronger than all the mentioned characters and equal to each other.
All of those scale to the 3-A feat and they are the God tiers of the verse, so tell me how a group of God Tiers of one verse performing/scaling to the same level of power presented is an outlier?
Mundus creates a universe, Argosax is making it so the two universes become one againg, Void Mundus is stronger than the other two, Sparda is on par(?)/stronger(?) with Void Mundus and Urizen is being depicted as being superior to Mundus and probably Sparda and finally Dante/Vergil/Nero whom are stronger than all the mentioned characters and equal to each other.
All of those scale to the 3-A feat and they are the God tiers of the verse, so tell me how a group of God Tiers of one verse performing/scaling to the same level of power presented is an outlier?
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Okay. So we can go ahead and start downgrading 6-C to 8-C, because 8-C is relevant to mention for anti-feats, apparently.
I am not being serious, just in case somebody doesn't get it.
I am not being serious, just in case somebody doesn't get it.
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By the way, I am currently in the process of finishing a wall of text on Mundus merging the two worlds (which we use "portal!!" to argue against)
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Ok, I'm back. Wasn't anything I could do for her, but some fresh air and a meal helped me. Anyway, I take it the opposition has taken the stance of interpreting submitted evidence in a light that does not support Option #1, ergo Option #3 is to be taken. The case is that this approach is more consistent with a tendency for the game to not have planets or whatnot destroyed during gameplay and such. Correct?
@Paradox -- If you don't mind, let's all define our stances and methods once more before proceeding with that venue, if you please.
@Paradox -- If you don't mind, let's all define our stances and methods once more before proceeding with that venue, if you please.
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This logic is really bad. No offense but at this point I have to question whether we are wanting to argue with actual points. Beforehand we at least were trying to attack the feats themselves.
God-Tiers in Devil May Cry are literally so MUCH STRONGER than even the mid-tier demons that even a infinitesimal fraction of Sparda's power was completely incomprehensible to Arkham and turning him insane.
God-Tiers in Devil May Cry are literally so MUCH STRONGER than even the mid-tier demons that even a infinitesimal fraction of Sparda's power was completely incomprehensible to Arkham and turning him insane.
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At this point this is just extreme denial and grudge against dmc honestly,other verses literally get their tiers out of a single feat and just for god tier characters like the two verses i mentioned in my comment,whats with all this favoristism for others
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Btw, I Also disagree about Argosax's feat. The given description is far too vague to explain HOW he was supposed to do it.
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Not to rush or misrepresent anyone, but I think I'll proceed with my reasoning so that no silly claims may be forwarded in my absence, since resentment seems to be filling in the void left by any logical objection, anyway. My objection to the Option #3 approach is its reliablity on subjective interpretation of events and statements whose apparent face value happen to lean towards Option #1. Of course, any interpretation is inheriently subjective by nature, but we are to take the most likely/probable interpretation. Therefore, the task of Option #1 is to prove itself the more probable, illuminating, et cetera.
It is self-apparent that inherient nature of the medium and plot can't readily accomidate itself to constant demonstrations of this scale; therefore we must determine if it is wise to approach the narrative on its own terms. I hazard that DMC is rich with 3-A exapmles in proportion to its amount of media, which consists of five main plots and two or three side stories in non-game media. We have multiple likely feats of such magnitude in 1, another in 2's novel, and another+scaling in 2. Then we have consistent scaling in 3, 4, 5, and the anime. No major work of the series has excluded reference or collaboration to the core feats at hand, and lore has been ready to step in to make them consistent through means such as this fruit matter in DMC5. Even if we are to discard the increasingly plausible WoG collaboration, no hard facts have been offered against the consistency of DMC5, unless you count subjective objections by long-noted dissenters to fall into that category.
One reason I refute such hand-waving is that a blatant double-standard is at employ here. Buildings and planets and such are not often destroyed by protagonists during gameplay conflicts in such works as Castlevania, Metroid, Pokemon, and SMT and most other RPGs, and such works have much more extensive media libraries than DMC (plenty of other examples wait for employ should these fail). Why would one attribute a differing standard, much less a stricter one, to a series touted for eschewing setpieces in favor of instantly gratifying gameplay? Is it not enough that every game in the series either features or accomidates the claims of Option #1?
Perhaps it's "possible" that somehow some independently conceived (and thoroughly obscured) plot thread can account for some of these points, with the rest arbitrarily pooh-poohed as "outliers," but Option #1 clearly better accounts for the rules of explanation through one intertwining line of reasoning rather than several seperately conceived ones. Possibility =/= probablity. It has also been said that extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, but a good philosopher, mathematician, or scientist alike can tell you that "extraordinary" is a term birthed of bias; all you need is logically sufficient evidence that covers the scope of the query in a well-sourced fashion that lines up with and illuminates the facts while relying on as little subjective definitions as possible. Heck, if you wanna define that as "extraordinary," we got you well covered by now. Me, I'm ready to ditch what I've been told and rather look at the consistency of the evidence. I just think I happen to have a bit more than a subjective interpretation, anyway; I hope you can judge for yourselves, independent of influence.
It is self-apparent that inherient nature of the medium and plot can't readily accomidate itself to constant demonstrations of this scale; therefore we must determine if it is wise to approach the narrative on its own terms. I hazard that DMC is rich with 3-A exapmles in proportion to its amount of media, which consists of five main plots and two or three side stories in non-game media. We have multiple likely feats of such magnitude in 1, another in 2's novel, and another+scaling in 2. Then we have consistent scaling in 3, 4, 5, and the anime. No major work of the series has excluded reference or collaboration to the core feats at hand, and lore has been ready to step in to make them consistent through means such as this fruit matter in DMC5. Even if we are to discard the increasingly plausible WoG collaboration, no hard facts have been offered against the consistency of DMC5, unless you count subjective objections by long-noted dissenters to fall into that category.
One reason I refute such hand-waving is that a blatant double-standard is at employ here. Buildings and planets and such are not often destroyed by protagonists during gameplay conflicts in such works as Castlevania, Metroid, Pokemon, and SMT and most other RPGs, and such works have much more extensive media libraries than DMC (plenty of other examples wait for employ should these fail). Why would one attribute a differing standard, much less a stricter one, to a series touted for eschewing setpieces in favor of instantly gratifying gameplay? Is it not enough that every game in the series either features or accomidates the claims of Option #1?
Perhaps it's "possible" that somehow some independently conceived (and thoroughly obscured) plot thread can account for some of these points, with the rest arbitrarily pooh-poohed as "outliers," but Option #1 clearly better accounts for the rules of explanation through one intertwining line of reasoning rather than several seperately conceived ones. Possibility =/= probablity. It has also been said that extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, but a good philosopher, mathematician, or scientist alike can tell you that "extraordinary" is a term birthed of bias; all you need is logically sufficient evidence that covers the scope of the query in a well-sourced fashion that lines up with and illuminates the facts while relying on as little subjective definitions as possible. Heck, if you wanna define that as "extraordinary," we got you well covered by now. Me, I'm ready to ditch what I've been told and rather look at the consistency of the evidence. I just think I happen to have a bit more than a subjective interpretation, anyway; I hope you can judge for yourselves, independent of influence.
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How is it "vague"? You see it happening throughout the entire campaign. In fact, there are several Missions where the manual of the game outright tells you that the Demon World is merging with the Human World due to the distorted, bizarre landscape changing out of nowhere, like the one Rebuble mentioned, where it is explicitly said that the fabric of reality itself is distorted because of the approach of the Demon World.
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Once again, that'd only be if they were separate space-times, and there is no conclusive evidence to suggest they are.
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@Dark -- I'd say that what we see isn't half-bad for Argosax's sealed, monster state. Besides, who says that sort of thing wasn't happening everywhere else, exactly? My explanation illuminates and correlates with information we already know from other games; inflicting a more independent, subjective interpretation does not.
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Well the demon world is said to be bigger then human world,said to be infinite in size,but i think that was talked before
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@Konaguna -- Then those "obvious reasons" should be easy for you to articulate, no? Explain to me how a feat collaborated by feats of similar magnitude and lore and scaling methods that could apply to all who need it is wrong in an "obvious" fashion, if you care to be taken seriously, please.
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@Paradoxindifferent
Do you know what proves a universe has two separate space-times? If the demon world consuming the human world can cause time paradoxs,"infinite circles" and time to stop, then wouldn't that prove separate space-times?
Do you know what proves a universe has two separate space-times? If the demon world consuming the human world can cause time paradoxs,"infinite circles" and time to stop, then wouldn't that prove separate space-times?
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To debunk some scalings here that people are misinformed by: - Mundus used the fruit to become king of the underworld and that inherently means his base power before the boost is massively weak as **** before getting the fruit. Urizen eating the fruit doesn't contradict the scaling when urizen BEFORE eating the fruit casually slapped DSS and rebellion while sitting down.
- Dante's scaling: it's already been shown that he needed sparda DT BECAUSE he hasn't tapped into his true demonic power. Which showed case in the novel that Dante blatantly stated mundus is no threat to him and it seems he has gotten stronger. The same novel that takes place befor e DMC2. Dante getting stomped by urizen is a no outlier due to the fact that urizen got his powers from absorbing the blood through the qlipoth. This just more or less rebuttals the argument of dante beating argosax is an outlier when it's been stated throughout DMC2 he has surpassed sparda.
- Character scaling: Urizen is inherently stronger than both demon king's by a lot due to the fact that urizen was absorbing the tree's blood which feeds him more power which we know human blood is a source of demon's power. This is not counting a month later after dante gets defeated, so urizen has gotten unimaginably stronger than he did in the prologue. The novel supports this fact by dante fighting urizen and dante on quote "are you getting stronger" while he was battling him. Now for vergil, dante and nero stuff yes they would be SCALED above prologue urizen and 2nd phase urizen, especially dante achieving SDT.
So how does scaling like tihs contradicts the feats? it's called scaling not scaling feats to each other, let me give all of you an example. Super saiyan blue goku is inherently far stronger than Super saiyan God, but yet SSG has shown more feats compare to SSB who inherently, whenever it fights, it onlyu desrtroys buildings and small cliffs. So this DOES not mean the new feat contradicts the other when the latter has shown to have more power increase than the other. Not only that if you're saying sparda would be 3-A and not dante, vergil or nero then how come sparda + Dante (matured) got stomped by urizen, in fact it was stated sparda has 1/3 of his true power at least but we know in its own library it has great divine power hiding within. Which shows it has more power than rebellion and yamato. keep in mind this is the same dante who inherently defeated two demon king's in the previous games.
- Dante's scaling: it's already been shown that he needed sparda DT BECAUSE he hasn't tapped into his true demonic power. Which showed case in the novel that Dante blatantly stated mundus is no threat to him and it seems he has gotten stronger. The same novel that takes place befor e DMC2. Dante getting stomped by urizen is a no outlier due to the fact that urizen got his powers from absorbing the blood through the qlipoth. This just more or less rebuttals the argument of dante beating argosax is an outlier when it's been stated throughout DMC2 he has surpassed sparda.
- Character scaling: Urizen is inherently stronger than both demon king's by a lot due to the fact that urizen was absorbing the tree's blood which feeds him more power which we know human blood is a source of demon's power. This is not counting a month later after dante gets defeated, so urizen has gotten unimaginably stronger than he did in the prologue. The novel supports this fact by dante fighting urizen and dante on quote "are you getting stronger" while he was battling him. Now for vergil, dante and nero stuff yes they would be SCALED above prologue urizen and 2nd phase urizen, especially dante achieving SDT.
So how does scaling like tihs contradicts the feats? it's called scaling not scaling feats to each other, let me give all of you an example. Super saiyan blue goku is inherently far stronger than Super saiyan God, but yet SSG has shown more feats compare to SSB who inherently, whenever it fights, it onlyu desrtroys buildings and small cliffs. So this DOES not mean the new feat contradicts the other when the latter has shown to have more power increase than the other. Not only that if you're saying sparda would be 3-A and not dante, vergil or nero then how come sparda + Dante (matured) got stomped by urizen, in fact it was stated sparda has 1/3 of his true power at least but we know in its own library it has great divine power hiding within. Which shows it has more power than rebellion and yamato. keep in mind this is the same dante who inherently defeated two demon king's in the previous games.
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Just wondering but where in the manga does it say that the universe was originally nothing but darkness?
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he did it without being completely unsealed. not only that it was stated by arius argosax has already done it.TriforcePower1 said:
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I think two separate dimensions interacting would cause those problems even if they weren't separate timelines altogether, to be fair.Dienomite22 said:
The fact that they share the exact same time (2,000 years on the Human World is the same as 2,000 years on the Demon World) would imply they aren't exactly separate timelines.
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NAH bruh you just not getting
Feats>>>>>Statements
DMC feats like consistently below Planetary, mundus feat has been debunk more times than I have insulted someone here and you k ke that's a lot.
Y'all trynna change feats into something they ain't cuz of statements that go against em
Feats>>>>>Statements
DMC feats like consistently below Planetary, mundus feat has been debunk more times than I have insulted someone here and you k ke that's a lot.
Y'all trynna change feats into something they ain't cuz of statements that go against em
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